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Alright here is my third idea for a new space wolves model.

Its about the size of a rhino with AV 12 all around. It has a transport capacity of 5 (no bulky or bigger allowed) ok this is where it gets interesting and complicated somewhat to both. Since I think it introduces new rules I at least haven't seen before, but with ork fluff I am sure it will be integrated, but I think space wolves would fit it also.

Ok the tank is armed with 2 heavy flamers. It is also armed with a thunder hammer type battering ram that applies to tank shocks and rams only. In a tank shock, if the target fails their Morale check 1 model at random takes a wound with no armor or cover allowed (invulns yes), if the target did a death or glory roll 1d6 if it's a 6 the death or glory model can not make his attack and dies as per death or glory rule. In a ram this tank gets +2 to it's ram strength in addition to any other modifiers and the result if a pen is resolved at AP 2. If this vehicle pens it's target and the target explodes, this vehicle suffers a strength 6 auto hit. Also this weapon absorbs and decreases the hit it receives from ramming the target by -1. This vehicle also has two side sponsons of chain razors. Any model assaulting this vehicle has to roll 1d6 and if they get a 1 they take a str 5 AP 5 hit. This vehicle has no fire points and one access point in the rear. In a turn it successfully tank shocked or rammed roll a d6 in it's assault phase it has to move the result inthe same direction is facing in a straight line, unless of course it can't because of impassable terrain or enemy models in the way. This represents the weight and force of the thunder battering hammer in front keeping momentum.

My only issue so far before you guys bring up other thoughts to me is what the points cost should be, I was thinking between 70 to 90 points around their, it would also be a dedicated transport.

Overly complex, fulfills no actual role on the battlefield and has absolutely no basis in fluff.

This seems like just a "I need to throw this idea out NOW" kind of thing more than anything. In all honesty, the vibe I get is just posting ideas without the benefit of forethought, what is this thing supposed to do? Why is it supposed to do it? What is such a convoluted and awkward set of rules contributing to the game as a whole?

Yeah that just about sums it up. And keep all your spaces wolves stuff in the same thread

Ok I respect your opinion if it's to complex for you, it's roll is a transport that can move the space wolves across the field and bash through anything in it's way, oh and it auto comes with dozer blades I forgot. It has two heavy flamers for anti infantry with it's battering ram it brings a different type of anti vehicle weapon to the field. I see it can be fluff based even though it hasn't been directly described any where lol. It's a siege transport. It protects the passengers from infantry trying to crack the tank open. I really don't get how you can't see that in my rules description lol, I am starting too think people here are to literal and don't look at the abstract, only the absolutes.


Um it also gives people a reason to use an oft not used rule.

If anything, this makes me want to ram less. Because I now have to keep track of about three new special rules unique to this vehicle alone:

The ram strength/AP change
The extra move on ram/tank shock
The extra Death or Glory rules
The extra morale check rules

And that is not even going into the "chain razors" rules, the fact that it has a transport capacity that basically makes it impossible to use the vehicle by anything other than the smallest squads or the fact that you describe it as a rhino, yet it does not use the rhino chassis AVs.

On just a basic glance, that is around 6 brand new, not used in any other model rules unique to this one single transport alone. This is a sign of immensely shortsighted design, as it means that using this thing means a huge amount of 'paperwork' on the player's part in keeping track of all of this extra stuff that is not used in any other thing. It is a symptom of something I see a lot in people who are new to making new units or rules, they feel that everything has to have tons of special rules, or random charts, or guns/weapons/upgrades unique to only it, where when you look at the wider scope of models, this is almost never the case. And in the cases that it is (usually special characters), most get about one thing that is truly unique to them, or does not exist elsewhere.

This leads to making the thing more playable and useful on the tabletop. Think of, for a moment, the view of your opponent as every tank has to be tracked specifically, or every different model provides entry after entry of new rules. It becomes annoying. It becomes un-fun. You need to show some actual restraint when designing your things and build if from a subtle and restrained level.

But then again, I've seen your habits here, and the fact that you are resorting to attacking repliers for taking the time to ask questions that you haven't bothered to ask yourself shows me that you are not all that interested in any feedback other than "OMG THAT IS SO WICKED DOPE".

I am not going to lie that was well said lol, but I can see about all the specific rules to just that unit, I am telling you though orks are going to get something like this for their vehicles!

Also different codex's do have their own special rules and units. All you got to do is get used to your codex after a few games unless your one of those people who glances at a page and knows everything word for word what it said and that's "OMG THAT IS SO WICKED DOPE!"

Seriously though, I actually got this idea and the last one from when I posted my first one, with all the stuff the mixture of people said.

And I don't expect all positive remarks, I don't expect 100% down right putting it down either lol. I should know that majority of people hate change though and that they reject it, but oh what can you do right? All you can do is try

And when someone says something I reply back with my reasoning or purpose, I don't respect some of them because I see people complain and try to divert and use loop holes in the game now and I have lost respect for those people. You seem ok though because you do have valid points at least lol

Dat Guy wrote:
I am not going to lie that was well said lol, but I can see about all the specific rules to just that unit, I am telling you though orks are going to get something like this for their vehicles!

Also different codex's do have their own special rules and units. All you got to do is get used to your codex after a few games unless your one of those people who glances at a page and knows everything word for word what it said and that's "OMG THAT IS SO WICKED DOPE!"

Different -codexes- not different -units-. There is a huge difference.

To use Space Wolves as an example, they all have Counter Attack and Acute Senses, or most do. This makes then unique.

But one, the rules are more or less evenly applied across the army, as an opponent, I know if I am facing Space Wolves to expect that. The specific special rules on a per-unit basis are usually small things and almost always ONE thing (the Blood Claws' cannot shot if they can charge thing). It is not each unit having its own bank of special rules that exist only for that one unit.

And two, many of those unique rules are rules that exist elsewhere. To keep using the Wolves as an example, Thunderwolf Cavalry do not have any super special rules of their own. They just use the existing Cavalry rules in conjunction with the SW/Marine rules so it described as something like "Space Wolf Cavalry". That's simple, clean and restrained. It makes Thunderwolf Cavalry unique and powerful, but it does not just pile on brand new rules for them. They are just Space Marine Cavalry with a slight modification to their base stats. They do not have "Charge of the Wolfrider", "Rage of the Rider", "Stirrups of Fenris" and the "Codpiece of Bjorn" special rules burdening them down and making their rules entry a huge, disgusting mess of complexity. They use the existing rules just fine to make a powerful, unique thing. All of that extra stuff is just crap that, unless you can really explain a good reason both for fluff and gameplay reasons why it needs a unique rule, is big rolls of flabby fat on it.

The exceptions to this are the special characters, and they are just that, special. And even then, look at some of the big name Wolves like Ragnar or Logan. How many special rules do they have that need a whole lot of explanation to an opponent? Almost none. Logan makes things Troops (something any 40k player knows), has a weapon with multiple forms (all understandable) and can pass off special rules (all rules that exist in the core rulebook). All of those things are good, they are all useful and poweful, but what they are not is extra nonsense and 'new for the sake of being new' rules.

Simpler version;

Space Wolves Herpdederp Ruffletumblerwagon

When the Space Wolves need to assault a fortress that is heavily defended by Orks and gak, they get in their ruffletooters and get ta killin. This heavily modified Rhino trades mobility for additional protection, especially against enemy infantry who may attempt to destroy the vehicle in an assault, allowing the squad inside to weather a hail of fire leading up to a breach in the walls.

BS: 4, Front AV: 12, Side AV: 12, Rear AV: 12

Type: Vehicle (tank)
This vehicle uses a Rhino chassis, but it must be suitably modified with spikes, armour plates and other gubbins

Weapons: Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
Carry Capacity: 10
Fire Points: 0, as the firing points have been closed over with plating to help protect the vehicle.

Special Rules / Wargear
-Lumbering Behemoth: As per the Imperial Guard codex. Due to the added weight of armour, this vehicle may only move 6+1d6" when it moves at crusing speed.
-Jagged Defenses: Any non-vehicle model attempting to assault this vehicle must take a dangerous terrain test. On a '1' they have injured themselves on the spikes and blades festooning the hull, and take an automatic wound! (armour saves allowed as usual)

-(optional herpyderpy rule) Entry Ram: In order to better deliver it's troops into the heart of enemy fortifications, the hooty tooty fluffler is fitted with a special ramming device. In game it counts as a dozer blade. In addition, by making a "ram" attack against a fortification, the troops inside may immediately disembark into the lowest floor of the building. If there is an enemy unit in there, then the two units immediately engage in assault - count the attacking unit as charging into terrain, however, the defenders may not fire overwatch. Through the use of this rule, you may exceed the usual one unit per building section rules, however, only one unit may be attacking any given section of a building in this manner at a time.

Sounds more like an ork vehicle hehe, and that jagged defense rule is similar to my chain razor rule except you operate it as a dangerous terrain upon failing it's an auto wound my version you still have to wound on a str 5, but yours is better because at least if they roll a 1 it's an auto wound.

Ok at least put the two heavy flamers on it

I like it but I do not see people playing with buildings often and only fortifications I see being taken are aegis and the landing pads.

Space Wolves Herpdederp Ruffletumblerwagon

Yeah, basically this.

And the thought of a giant hammer-type weapon on the front of a tank cracks me up.



Slap a wolf or some other nonsense on Dr. Robotnik and you're good to go.

Oh lol, that definitely deserves to be exhalted.

Dat Guy, if your making a unique vehicle simply to counter what your opponent likes to field, then your That Guy. Lack of fortifications shouldn't be an issue

I like the concept of the building thing, just I myself don't see buildings being used much and if you take the vehicle that way it's extremely situational.

That Dr. robotnic thing I admit is good.
I don't think you understand what I meant though, it's not an actual hammer on the front lol, it's more like a wide across battering ram that uses some properties of a thunder hammer, like concussive and it being AP 2.

Also why did someone complain about the transport capacity of 5 being such a bad thing? Razorbacks get 6 sure the 6th one allows you to add an independent character to a unit of 5 but it's not terrible.

If that's the case, then just name it "Dat Guy's Tank to Beat Dat Guy's Meta' because that is the point of it, if you decide on rules based on how to win in your situation.

That's not for me, I don't own or play space wolves, I run Ultramarines and Ulthwe armies for space marines and Eldar respectively. It's rules I am suggesting for the tank for space wolves. Orks will be getting these rules or some variant of them for their vehicles.

The stuff I came up with so far I will be facing against, not playing with.

The point still stands. You are designing a unit based on a local meta. That very consideration means that you are not thinking about it on a wider scale, just in terms of one particular setting.

But you are making these claims and giving me no examples of why or what. I want to learn so please teach me!

Ok, its pretty simple man. You make custom units because they are cool, or to fit a campaign your doing.

You don't make them to help you destroy a unit you have trouble with, or because it would make your army more powerful.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Ok, its pretty simple man. You make custom units because they are cool, or to fit a campaign your doing.

You don't make them to help you destroy a unit you have trouble with, or because it would make your army more powerful.

I know this, to me this is a cool model. I don't own or will ever play space wolves. This isn't for me, I would be playing against it.

I do play Space Wolves, and I would rather just take a rhino and fire two flamers out the firing ports than use this. As per fluff, I do not see how this makes much sense. As drunken space vikings who relish in glory and close combat (for the most part) something with one access point, and protecting passengers. As for the Role of a siege transport a land raider works just as well if not better with its well placed entry point.

I personally dont see the point in using this over a Rhino/land Raider currently.

Points cost and something different to use, it has 2 heavy flamers which are better then regular flamers, and getting the ability to move at 12"and still cause damage even a possible tank wreck is cool.

It's just an idea and it's not set in stone yet and I can totally see people using this.

My one space wolves friend won't though because he never takes vehicles of any kind. That's why I originally came up with that MC thread.

Curse my friends for not wanting to make accounts on here since they don't want to be involved with the drama.

But they claim you guys don't like to have fun

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
I personally dont see the point in using this over a Rhino/land Raider currently.

Did you read the part about the thunder hammer on the front? I imagine it driving up to the bunker and knocking politely.

Knock, Knock!
Who's there?
The Space Wolf Rape Train! *wolf sounds*

Goddamnit, all these references to drunken space vikings make me want to start using Space Wolves (they'd be Space Bears/Russians though)

Which is a total dick move, because my main opponent is Wolves and Dark Eldar and I've already started Dark Eldar.

I'd use this transport purely for gaks and giggles. If it's effective, awesome! If not, awesome! I love ramming gak, my opponents would probably let it ram them anyway just to see what happens, and the idea of a guys units just dying when they charge it is hilarious

Yeah I would change that, they would take a dangerous terrain check, with armor saves allowed not like I had it before. That other dude made a more reasonable version of this.