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Hey guys I wanted to make a 2k list for the deathwing that can be semi-competitive. The problem is that I think Belial is the most worthless HQ there is. I've found he only does anything of value as a meat shield with a TH/SS. This means I have to take some junk to cover my troop choices. That's why I have the scout, and tactical squad. These are all with actual models, and I think it works out the most competitively.

HQ: Prescience on both libbies
Librarian x1
Librarian in terminator armor x1
DW Command squad x5 : 4x TH/SS, 1x DW champion, 1x banner of fortitude

Elite: Deathwing Knightx7 (goes in land raider with cheap libby)
Deathwing terminator squad x10 (3x TH/SS, 2x assualt cannon)

Troops: Tactical marines x5 heavy bolter
Scout squad x5 heavy bolter

Fast: Ravenwing attack squadron x6 w/ attack bike multi melta.

Heavy: Land raider crusader w/ multi melta

if your Deep striking the 10 man unit, I recommend belial, decent HQ and you can pop them anywhere you need to.

That's the point, he's really NOT a decent HQ. At his points cost he doesn't compare to ezekiel who is what 40ish points less? His weapons are all lackluster, and as I said his best purpose is to stand in the front of a squad with a TH/SS. I can prescience 2 units a turn, and get the same terminator armor on one unit, and have the other hide in the back of the 7 man DW knight squad who jump out of the land raider fully prescience'd for mass killing power. Rerolling all those str 10 ap 2 hits makes them a killer on anything. Then I have the option to prescience the 10 man squad beyond turn 1, which also will affect them in assault phases as opposed to having them miss half of their hits.

Believe me I didn't take Belial out accidentally, it is because of his pure worthlessness..

just don't blow your load on anything not worthwhile. I find the tactical effectiveness of being able to plop my ten man DW squad where ever I please extremely useful. if I have locator beacons I may forgo belial but if I don't I fully enjoy it. of course my local meta plays with a lot of large terrain pieces.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
besides I never run DW to be "competitive" I play my ravenwing

For goodness sake, Belial is awesome for the reasons mentioned above (he is so good I just have to say it again) - accurate teleporting. Plus his sword is fleshbane so wounds everything on a 2+.

As soon as you put tacical marines into a force it aint deathwing. Providing the terminator are troops I could accept a couple of scout units in a deathwing force. (The narrative being "help we found something that the first company need to come and splat for us" sort of thing). Similarly the only ravenwing the fluff could bear is a jet fighter or two.

Here's how you do it (to be honest I'm aiming at 1500pts):
Take Belial with a couple of units of terminators.
Take a dreadnought in a drop pod. Don't get carried away and take two, you want things to get to deepstrike in the first turn.
Load of sniper scouts to snipe out plasmaguns and so forth from units.
If you want a librarain (and who wouldn't) whack them in a unit of terminators and start them on the board. Either with a landraider or hide them behind an ADL and go for a jet fighter.
Anything which can not deep strike in the first turn (excepting the librarain) ignore.

(going around the houses a bit now)
No anti-air; yes most of the force is 2+ save but three vendettas will hapily wipe out 6 or so terminators per turn.
Two troop choices at 2000pts doesn't give you much change in most missions unless you intend to table every opponent.
Taking 10 terminators means big problems if they deepstrike poorly and you loe them. Keep them to 5 man units. Easier to deep strike, you can deep strike more agressively and in more locations.
Not a big fan of the knights, once they have smited they are mediocre. No ranged weapons so a half quick opponent could chose not to engage and just move away from them.

actually RW and DW work together all the time in fluff.

Yeah but if you want to play dark angels mix it all up.
If you want to play deathwing - stick to the bone coloured armour.
As every mum tells their kids:
"You don't see Raven Wing on a Space Hulk"
(Maybe I wasn't paying attention but that's what it sounded like).

(I'm ignoring my acceptance of scouts and jet fighters in a Deathwing Force)

I have just looked up Belial in my Codex.
A_W_E_S_O_M_E

lol. I always have at least 1-2 bike squads (usually one black knight squad) in my DW army for the tellyporta beacon and because it works with fluff. and because the black knights are the best freaking unit in the DA codex IMO.

Sorry to be nosey but how do you use your knights and what results do you get with them?


To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of bikes, I have some for my CSMs but my Dark Angels are just Deathwing at the moment. I do rate the Jet fighter. I'm toying with the idead of squeezing two terminator units, two scout squads, two dreads, and two jet fighters with Belial in command and calling it a day for 1500pts.
(Or replace the jetfighters and scouts with two landraiders but then that would mean tabling people and I'm not that good (I'm not very good at all)).

I'll probably look at a pure Raven wing force one day because I do like landspeeders.

when I run ravenwing, I almost always do much better than when I run deathwing. the only match up that I lose horribly is usually vs 3 baledrakes unless I get lucky on my divination rolls. the black knights I LOVE THEM. TL plasma + the -1T and -1 WS and Int from the grenade launchers... mmmm sweet goodness. I almost always charge T2 due to scouts.

Thanks, I'll put my pondering cap on and look at the codes once again.

 Jasper wrote:
For goodness sake, Belial is awesome for the reasons mentioned above (he is so good I just have to say it again) - accurate teleporting. Plus his sword is fleshbane so wounds everything on a 2+.

As soon as you put tacical marines into a force it aint deathwing. Providing the terminator are troops I could accept a couple of scout units in a deathwing force. (The narrative being "help we found something that the first company need to come and splat for us" sort of thing). Similarly the only ravenwing the fluff could bear is a jet fighter or two.

Here's how you do it (to be honest I'm aiming at 1500pts):
Take Belial with a couple of units of terminators.
Take a dreadnought in a drop pod. Don't get carried away and take two, you want things to get to deepstrike in the first turn.
Load of sniper scouts to snipe out plasmaguns and so forth from units.
If you want a librarain (and who wouldn't) whack them in a unit of terminators and start them on the board. Either with a landraider or hide them behind an ADL and go for a jet fighter.
Anything which can not deep strike in the first turn (excepting the librarain) ignore.

(going around the houses a bit now)
No anti-air; yes most of the force is 2+ save but three vendettas will hapily wipe out 6 or so terminators per turn.
Two troop choices at 2000pts doesn't give you much change in most missions unless you intend to table every opponent.
Taking 10 terminators means big problems if they deepstrike poorly and you loe them. Keep them to 5 man units. Easier to deep strike, you can deep strike more agressively and in more locations.
Not a big fan of the knights, once they have smited they are mediocre. No ranged weapons so a half quick opponent could chose not to engage and just move away from them.

I don't agree with several things, one an accurate deep strike is possible to an extent with a teleport homer. But what about after you deepstrike your ten terminators where they'll likely die. The deep striking big squad can support the bike squad, and also has a prescience termie for the second turn available on either of the units. The command squad can deep strike anywhere in the vicinity as well with 4 th/ss it brings FNP to a lot of units. Also, knights aren't weak at all with prescience, you hit with almost everything, which is 22 strikes at s10 ap2, also 7 hammer of wrath. they kill a lot of weaker units without smite mode just fine or vehicles regardless of armor.

Basically I think 40 points less for 2 librarians with prescience is worth more than accurate deepstrikes.

The deep strike thing with Belial is a first turn thing - go in all guns blazing with everything before your opponent has chance to blink; yes the knights can do it first turn; but as soon as you pop a librarain into the knights or other terminators suddenly you are rolling for reserved from the second turn onwards; and your opponent can have something to say about that - wipe out the teleport homer, things to make resevre rolls harder, wipe out most of your other force as they outnumber you on points while you wait for things to turn up.

One of the key things I suggest is dropping in a dreadnought to block LOS and also to put an assault cannons worth of pain on anything which will hurt the other things teleporting. Just to make up for the fact that the normal terminators suffer from the poorer ++ save.

The Deathwing knigths-like I said- smite is awesome. Once that is gone if the things they are fighting have a 3+ save then the knights are not really that much better - okay the leader can break through their armour a bit better but thats naff for terminators. If you are facing 3 mega nobz (post smite) your are in big doodoo. The big downer on them in a Deathwing force is they can never be troops.

I sort of see what you are saying about the points comparision but the thing about a deathwing force is for it to work well the terminators need to be troops; Belial does this. You can still get a librarain as part of the force to buff things.