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Ok so here was just a thought out, what do you all think of KS?

I for one dislike them, I find them to take too long for the final product to come out (I've been waiting for Deadzone since its announcement... now im feeling that its more of a buzz kill now) imo and I don't like the idea of stretch goals, whilst I see that you can get some really cool stuff sometimes those same stuff will only be cast in that KS or that stretch goal which for me outweighs the good points of the product and the KS.

I can see the point of them as they can get beginning wargame creators into the industry, however I find that a few established company's use them a bit too much imo, and I kind of wish they would just release the product instead of using KS as a cultch so to say..

That is my opinion of them, and I was wondering on what you all thought of KS?

Cheers to all comments

Looks like our votes are currently offsetting

I like them, as they're making opportunities for things to be made that could never have been before. If I successfully receive an alien assimilation host from Trollforged next year, and some awesome APCs and mini-Mortis Leviathans from Dreamforge, then I will be even more emphatic about this!

I also have a Form 1 3D Printer that would never have been made without Kickstarter!

However, I agree it's created a lot of opportunities for bad ideas / underprepared creators to get funding, and flounder around with it... but I think the problem is not so much with the platform, but that users need to be more discerning of what they back.

That said it's a combination- Kickstarter could provide more safeguards, and if they don't do it, at some point laws may be changed to require them to.

But overall, I think the (perhaps few) good things that have come out of it outweight the (perhaps many) bad things that have resulted, too.

Really needs a "Depends" option. Stuff like the Dreamforge or Winter War kickstarter, where they absolutely need that initial capital to get going are awesome. I just treat it as a preorder and realize that more likely than not there will be delays. I get cool stuff for a good price and help a good company out while I'm at it.

Stuff like what mantic does, where its a glorified preorder and they didn't really need it bother me and I don't fund those.

Totally on a case by case basis for me. No way I could paint it with such a broad brush.

Im pretty much the same as the rest, Some I like, some I am not so keen on, and I too always saw it as a starting block for companies getting started. I dont like it when established companies get on the back of them so much, but what do i know.

It is a reverse credit card. With my credit card I can get it now and pay for it later. With kick starter I can pay now and maybe get it later.

I am not a big fan, because it has become overdone. Just how much kick starting do some of these decades old, million dollar companies need?

A maximum turnover cap on who can run projects would go a long way to bringing it back closer to what it was intended for I suspect, but KS won't do that, as I'm sure they like money.

There are so many unoriginal kickstarters out there that it gets pretty annoying after a while. I wish there was a kickstarter forum on dakka so they could just all be advertising there. I go to the news section and I have to weave through all the trash to see actual news/rumours.

I'd have to say only 1 in 10 kickstarters intrigue me enough to consider investing in their miniature related projects.

Nah , never been interested in a promise of a game / miniatures .

Plenty of ' here it is now ' miniatures and games to choose from

I have to agree with the OP on one point. I dislike it when established companies use Kickstarter as a way of pre-funding new releases as opposed to using their own capital to make the investment. The reason I dislike it is because the more popular, established companies' kicstarter programs always seem to drown out the small, start up companies that really need the assistance of crowdfunding.

To me, Kickstarter is supposed to be a place where new, small business or enterprises find the funding to introduce something new, whereas they wouldn't be able to obtain the funding anywhere else. Established companies use it as a combination of advertising (that the consumer pays for) and a way to avoid taking out business loans or using existing capital, and as a way to maximize profitability.

Don't get me wrong; it's perfectly ok for businesses to make money. I just get tired of seeing the same, big companies with established lines of business repeatedly jumping into Kickstarter with every newly planned release.

I like them,

I like they way they do let small companies bring interesting stuff to the table

although you're never going to get a huge deal from a small player which many potential backers fail to understand

As for larger companies using it so be it

You certainly don't want to blow all your years budget on one KS, you'll bet bored and frustrated waiting

(and the Pokémon mentality and KS are a bad mix generally)

but having fun stuff coming through the door in 6-12 months, excellent!

I've bought as much stuff in the shops that I've ended up shelving/selling as I've got from KS. It's reletivly easy to add to something you enjoy already, be it 40K, Warmahordes or whatever, investing in something new is always a risk

(you may not like it or worse your available gaming group may not like it)

so have fun with KS,
use it to test the waters with something new,
back a smaller project or two (even if you're paying close to retail),
don't wait with baited breath for your new stuff to arrive but enjoy your existing games.... then dive in to the new stuff when it does show up

I do like kickstarter, but i'll be honest... i'm way too lazy to sift through all the utter gak there is on KS, and sort of rely on friends to point out the wheat from the chaff.

I do like that they let small companies get off the ground. I think it's a little ridiculous to see large established companies kickstarting ideas that have been around for 2+ years, or that you know damn well is going to get produced regardless of how the KS does.

That's where my annoyance comes from, the lack of *any* barrier to entry, and larger, established companies using it.


On the whole i'm on board with the crowd sourcing movement though. There's some kinks to work out, and i don't think kickstarter is the end all or be all, but it's mostly positive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kenofyork wrote:
Just how much kick starting do some of these decades old, million dollar companies need?

Really well put. I couldn't agree more.

When i see an established, decade old, successful company putting a product up on kickstarter, i get disgusted with that company. I get even more disgusted when that company is putting a 2-3 year old idea that has been kicking around in no man's land up and pretending it's a fresh new idea and concept.

Both have happened. Sometimes by the same company.


That said... there is some promising stuff out there. Wrath of King's KS looks very nice.

If you don't like them then ignore them.

Me, I like them, and like the way they have allowed game companies to expand - from allowing small eensy weensy companies such as Stonehaven to release their dwarfs, gnomes, and soon elves, to allowing medium sized companies such as Mantic to develop their games, to allowing much larger companies such as Reaper to expand into new forms of manufacture.

I feel as though my money is helping change things for the betterment of the hobby, not just putting pretty plastic, resin, or metal on my table.

The other thing to bear in mind is that Kickstarter is fulfilling the role once played by banks and distributors - it used to be possible for a game company to get the loans needed to expand, and it used to be possible to have all of your games carried by the distribution network.

Neither the banks nor the distributors are handling those matters anymore - so if I want to see a game based on an out of print series of cards from the nineteen sixties and later turned into a movie, then Kickstarter is the only thing that will allow such a game to see the light of day.

The Auld Grump - more than half my gaming dollars for the past two years has been spent through Kickstarter or other crowdfunding enterprises. I have no regrets.

Okay, one regret... I should have put more into Reaper's Bones Kickstarters....

Two... Deadzone, if I had the money.

Three... Stonehaven Elves?

Four....

 happygolucky wrote:
Ok so here was just a thought out, what do you all think of KS?

I for one dislike them, I find them to take too long for the final product to come out (I've been waiting for Deadzone since its announcement... now im feeling that its more of a buzz kill now) imo and I don't like the idea of stretch goals, whilst I see that you can get some really cool stuff sometimes those same stuff will only be cast in that KS or that stretch goal which for me outweighs the good points of the product and the KS.

I can see the point of them as they can get beginning wargame creators into the industry, however I find that a few established company's use them a bit too much imo, and I kind of wish they would just release the product instead of using KS as a cultch so to say..

That is my opinion of them, and I was wondering on what you all thought of KS?

Cheers to all comments

The novelty is worn off on them. It is not what it was a year or so ago when they started showing up on Dakka. Now it is getting out of hand and some of them are just using the board now as another sales ploy. I think Yak and Lego need to start looking hard into some advertising moolah for some of the gak that is coming across the plate.

SOme of them, not bad, some of them, pure gak, still others actually have something done and do what they say.

unfortunately there are too many issues that come with the so called "Success".

I'm off Kickstarter.
I get excited about a product, pay for it, then wait.


And wait.



And wait.

I can't be bothered with it now.

I like the idea of crowd-funding. It is a great way for companies to get products to the market that may not have ever seen the light of day otherwise. More products/choices equals win as far as I am concerned. Some kickstarters offer deals that are so fantastic (Reaper Bones I and II) that I can't pass them up. The only thing that gets under my skin a little bit about the KS craze right now is that they are clogging up the News and Rumors forum here. And while I recognize that news about KS are news, it would be nice to have a separate forum for them.

A seperate Kickstarter forum would be absurd.
We are in a golden age of breadth and quality of TTG/Miniature product and Kickstarter is an integral part of that at the moment.

I'm a big fan. There's risk, but there's also a certain level of transparency created by public crowd-funding. I think you are more likely to be able to make a well informed decision about a KS than about Mystery Company X's first big release on their webstore.

Sitting on a heap of Dwarven Forge Game Tiles, I must say, "Whats not to like?"

Although there seem to be too many all at once, which forces me to pick and choose between them. Timing could be better.

 snurl wrote:
Sitting on a heap of Dwarven Forge Game Tiles, I must say, "Whats not to like?"

Although there seem to be too many all at once, which forces me to pick and choose between them. Timing could be better.

Wouldn't you be more comfortable on a chair?

I like the idea of it.

Overall it is a case by case scenario as someone above has put it.

Some are great some are not.

I've backed many. Some have turned out to be a golden egg others were a pile of elephant gak. Some Kickstarters I passed on and regretted dearly for doing so.

In the end KS is as advertised, fund at your own risk.

Love to see a small guy get an opportunity when the possibility would never have happened.

Can't stand seeing bigger companies use it as a preorder system.

KS has pretty much become the equivalent of advertising during the super bowl but getting stacks of cash thrown at you.

I generally like KS, and have backed 6 projects in the past.

But I'm starting to get a bit bored of it, mainly because of the big companies using it as a pre-order. I'll back big companies projects if it looks like they genuinely need the revenue to get a project off the ground, but it'd need to be at a deal that'd justify paying a year in advance for a product (way more than 20% off RRP - I can probably get that a month or 2 after launch, and I can spent/save the money now). Like the first Reaper KS; that was way too cheap to pass up even though I got into a few new games between backing and delivery and thus 95% of it was now no use (I've made my money back on it by selling it all on).

For genuine start-ups or smaller companies, I'm more inclined to pitch in, because it feels like I'm actually contributing; this range of mini's exists because I helped them out.

I've backed 4:

1. Reaper Miniatures Bones #1
2. Flying Assault Butts
3. Secret Weapon Miniatures gaming tiles
4. Reaper Miniatures Bones #2

I regret nothing and was glad for the opportunity to help out a company/person that is contributing to the miniatures hobby and to get something in return that's 100% kick ass.

Anyone that doesn't agree with me is obviously not cool. Pop your collar. You'll feel better and at least look cool.

I've backed 10, so far 4 delivered.

I like the idea of it but I do somewhat resent the ones that are used just as glorified shopping carts / pre-order systems.

As for the wait... well, I consider KS stuff a gift to future me.

I have no problems with it.


I don't see why people are so upset. It's really easy to ignore if you don't like it.

Currently backed 7 (thought it was 4 till i wrote them out) Projects:

-Sedition Wars - Delivered. I'm actually pretty happy with this one outside of a model or two. Though I know it caught a ton of flak.

-Secret Weapon Miniatures game tiles - awaiting delivery but since the owner shows up at a bunch of the events I go to I can find him if I'm not happy and the first prints of the tiles look awesome.

-Dreamforge - Awaiting final delivery of arms for my mini-levi's but the stuff I have received (Big Levi, Addiional Big Levi Arms, and Little Levi) is amazing

-Wrath of Kings - Awaiting delivery. I bought into the entire line for less than what it would cost me to build another 40k army. Not sure how it'll turn out but the models shown so far are pretty sick and I'm hopeful.

-Deadzone - Awaiting delivery. Super pumped about the terrain. Didn't go in heavy on the models at the last minute since, based on Sedition Wars, I knew I would have moved on from whatever project I thought I might want them for. My second wave though will be awash in hard plastic Forge Fathers.

-Reaper #2 - In for a Dollar. Not sure what I might add but it'll prboably be worth it. Might not even add anything. We'll see.

-Kingdom Death - Awaiting Delivery. Awesome creator and still excited.

Some of these are glorified pre-orders, some are expansion for the companies, some were needed to develop a product and bring it to market. No matter the way I like Kickstarter. I'm careful with it but I pick the projects I'll be happy with receiving a year from now or I feel will be a boon to the future of MY hobby.

Jesus, writing it out shows me how much stuff I still have incoming.....That by itself might keep me from adding anything to my Reaper pledge. Between 40k and all the stuff coming in I'm going to be painting for years.....

Big No - I'm sick to death of them, indeed I will tend to pass over most threads here that include the work Kickstarter in it and has been the case since I backed Sedition Wars.

I don't particularly have an issue with any of the KS I received (SW + Zombiecide 1 & 2) but it just seems like any old idea sets up a Kickstarter whether there is a business plan or not.

People loose money on poorly led schemes, the wait/delays, money is extracted from the hobby to KS (10%!), FLGS loose sales and all to exploit gamers desire for cheap models.

Most of all I dislike that a community funding source for cool ideas is actually more often or not used as a sales method for prefinished products at its worst I think it's very cynically exploited by some companies. The Deadzone game from Mantic being a prime example; the game was dangled and what you saw initially would have been a game box mostly filled with air. Low and behold most of the initial goals were actually basic game components and it wasn't until allot of people were pledged did true extras get included.

Don't get me wrong DZ is a good enough game and probably delivered in the end but the way it used KS just started to put me off the idea.

From there an awful lot of companies have jumped on that band wagon.

I used to be a lot more addicted to them, but I have slowed down on the KS front.

Of all of the KS I have backed, all have gone well for me (although KoW did have problems, just none effected me). I am still waiting for a few things on the more recent projects.

Now indiegogo campaigns, never again.

 gossipmeng wrote:
There are so many unoriginal kickstarters out there that it gets pretty annoying after a while. I wish there was a kickstarter forum on dakka so they could just all be advertising there. I go to the news section and I have to weave through all the trash to see actual news/rumours.

I'd have to say only 1 in 10 kickstarters intrigue me enough to consider investing in their miniature related projects.

I agree. I think Kickstarter should get its own forum. I am interested in about 0.1% of the projects mentioned in the N&R forum. But, some that I did back were ones I discovered in the N&R forum. Actually, I learned about Kickstarter itself from the forum. So I guess I have mixed feelings about that. I do like Kickstarer but I think companies like Bones and other established companies shouldn't use them for EVERY new project they have...

Kickstarter is what led me to Dakka (at least besides Barzam).

I've always been a big fan of miniature- heavy board games, so Kickstarter has had a lot to offer.

I've been pretty happy with just about all the stuff I've gotten so far. Of course, most of my big ticket purchases haven't arrived yet, but that's alright.

I have no issue with what size company is producing stuff- as a consumer I'm going to look out for myself.

Also since I've got so much crap at home already, Kickstarter's later delivery gives me more time to enjoy what I've currently purchased.

I like KS overall. My only gripe is that they're almost always late. Right now out of mine, Exalted 3E has slipped, Primeval Thule is probably about to slip, Kingdom Death has slipped, and Relic Knights....nuff said.

I get why these things happen, but you'd really think companies would start to be more realistic with their estimates. Use the Montgomery Scott method and over-estimate; it gives you slack for when something inevitably goes wrong, and your backers will be chuffed if it ships "early".