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So what is everyone's favorite? It can be based of ascetics, profile, or a a particular ship you have named. and if you are up to it why not share why

For me I have to say I like the Hellebore (an eldar escort). I like its design as well as its versatility on the board. During my first ever BFG game (8 eldar escorts vs a Necron tombship) they caused the most damage with the mix of their weapons being able to make use of both a pulsar lance and torpedos. I completely forgot about their weapon batteries, thou I doubt that would have changed much.

The Hellbore is pretty awesome, it is almost a small capital ship in its own right. Awesome firepower, but fragile and pricey.

I'm also a big fan of the simple Cobra destroyer myself.

I'm going to agree with Swordbreaker!

After suffering massively at Ork ramships and kroozers, I went for 3 squadrons of 5 cobras, the sheer volume of torpedoes they could put out would make it difficult to say the least, especially with slower moving battleships.

I'm also a fan of the cobra, nice cheap torpedo launcher that often gets over looked by my Cruisers & Battlebarges

Cobras hands down. While they may be fragile, they're cheap and by god they can pack a ton of torpedoes, enough to make most enemy ships cry when used in conjunction with Lunars.

Plus, c'mon, they just look awesome as well.

Swords.

Just the right about of firepower and looks cool also.

Title of "BGF" instead of "BFG"... I am disappoint! (also, now fixed )

Man I love the Iconoclast Destroyer!

The nicassar dhow is far and away my favorite escort for looks.

I am a fan of the cobra, I have a whole bunch, but the firestorm is a good asset as well, lances are very useful after shields are brought down by battery fire

Just based on looks…I have to got with the Dark Eldar. I don't like the Imp Navy escorts. They look like womens' shoes.

Funny, before the FAQ2010 the Hellebore was the poorest escort of them all, after the FAQ2010 it became useable.

But what's my favourite?
The Eldar Nightshade gamewise for sure.

But the Hunter, Warden, Castellan, Hemlock, Sword, Infidel are also great.

Designwise:
The Shadowhunter
and also: Hunter (FW model), Cobra, Castellan

@GuardRalph: but womens' shoes can be sexy, lol

How was the Hellebore the poorest?

SaintofDaemons wrote:
How was the Hellebore the poorest?

I'd like to know too because those pulsars ate me alive.

 Boblogik wrote:

SaintofDaemons wrote:
How was the Hellebore the poorest?

I'd like to know too because those pulsars ate me alive.

You could have a Hemlock and a Nightyshade for 5pts more yet have two ships which adds survivability and flexibility.

Hellebores cost too much at 75pts each for what they did, and the lance and torpedoes work at cross purposes. Eldar lances really need Lock On, more so than any other weapon, torpedoes need Reload Ordance. This makes the ship inefficient.

However the main thing is 75pts for a single hull point ship that dies on a 4+ to weapons batteries. Its just too much.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Boblogik wrote:

SaintofDaemons wrote:
How was the Hellebore the poorest?

I'd like to know too because those pulsars ate me alive.

You could have a Hemlock and a Nightyshade for 5pts more yet have two ships which adds survivability and flexibility.

Hellebores cost too much at 75pts each for what they did, and the lance and torpedoes work at cross purposes. Eldar lances really need Lock On, more so than any other weapon, torpedoes need Reload Ordance. This makes the ship inefficient.

However the main thing is 75pts for a single hull point ship that dies on a 4+ to weapons batteries. Its just too much.

While yes it is cheaper which in turn leads to more ships, I still feel the Hellebore is better then both. Having to split roles between ships decreases the over all flexibility, not increase it since the ships are forced to fill a specific role. When a ship is flexible it can fill multiple roles, something the Hemlock and Nightshade are unable to do and their elimination can remove a combat element from the fleet, this can lead to a total lost of torpedo or lance base escorts (if the dice are against you). This targeted elimination becomes even easier when you take into consideration Nova cannons and Star Pulse Generators which can remove whole squadrons in a single shot. The Hellebore's ability to use both the lance and torpedo mitigates this kind of loss/targeted removal and of course this increased flexibility comes with a higher point cost to balance it out. Also the Hellebore is more resilient to boarding actions then the Hemlock, which can help in a pinch; but normally matters little. I am not saying Hellebore is more resilient then other eldar escorts it is still paper and is destroyed just as easily which makes the fleet over all more fragile which is a huge determent, this means Hellebores have to be used with a little more skill (that is my view anyway). I do have to admit they are over priced and would be better at around 65 points or had two Hull points and stayed at 75 pt

As for the" Lock On" special order, I don't really feel it is need to be effective; but it's use does make a Pulsar lance more affective then most other lance shots. Also with the "Reload Ordance" special order, can be failed like any other order which could leave a whole unit of Nightwings being useless for a round while the Hellobore can still fire it's lance, meaning the shooting phase isn't a total waste for the squadron. Thou i have yet to play with Nightwings since I don't have any models of them, so I may prefer a Hemlock/Nightwing combo over the Hellebore if I ever get the chance

Thou on the astatic I just happen to like the sleek form of the hellebore, which some of the Hemlocks have since there seems to be two variants

Hellebores are fun and I have six myself, but they are used differently in my book, I consider them a handicap to use against certain fleets where Eldar have an advantage.. Eldar fleets are poorly balanced, they are ok against Tau and all human based fleets, give or take, but rape orks and are little playthings of the Necrons.
Hellebrores are likewise poorly balanced compared to Hemlcoks and Nightshades, they are so definitely inferior that I prefer them against some opponents to balance out the game, and are withdrawn from others or see token service against opponents like Chaos.

Sorry I just don't rate the Hellebore, let me say why:

1. Price 75pts per hull rather than 40pts. I wont use more words than necessary to explaijn why this is bad when facing weapons batteries.
What I will say is that yes an opponents can target Hemlocks or Nightshades first and rob you of a type of attack, but if you have Hellebores in half the numbers then the same weapons fire can rob you of both types of attack with the same casualties caused.
Also as Hellebroers are expensive sometimes you rally have to brace with them, if you do, no lock on and no reload. Cheaper escorts can both afford to suck up the casualties and as the weapons are split between more squadrons can more afford to drop firepower by bracing..

2. Reload Ordanance. As for orders, they are too important. Reload is reload, you got two torpedoes you must use it or lose out. As Eldar escorts will be in firing position in every turn its the only concern for a Nightshade squadron. If you are not reloading and firing Nightshades on every turn it is because you have used them poorly or the are a rookie squadron with poor Ld and you daren't attempt to give them special orders until the end.

3. Lock On. Eldar lances trump torpedoes though. While nasty enough without lock on the odds of doing massive damage crack up when you have rerolls. 75%+75%+75% is not too hard to pull off, 50%+50%+50% is less so.
An Eldar lance is worth two human ones, which cost approx 40-45pts when mounted on escorts. You get two for 40prts or 75pts, but the 40pt option can afford to lock on most of the time, after all they are cheap enough that you are less tempted to brace.

4. 15cm Upwind move. Nearly all Eldar move 10cm upwind, they can make a side to the wind move and tack upwind but that is not always convenient. All other movment profiles for Eldar are acceptable but the upwind move of 10cm is problematic. Destroyers and they alone move 15cm upwind, this might not seem much but its a lot, it guarantees a full move of 30cm in any direction. Also it brings escape moves up to about 45cm (c15cm +c30cm) range, this should make return weapons battery fire difficult to manage.

What does all this mean tactically?
Hellebores are far better off firing lances than torpedoes and the lock on significantly effects actual fire volume not just effectiveness, a locked on lance has a higher average fire volume than two torpedoes even if the target has a 4+ save. With armoured targets it just gets tougher. So in essence Hellebores are really Hemlocks with a one shot torpedo pair and an added weapons battery.
The battery accumulates into something useful wity three or more Hellebores I grant you that, and also benefits from lock on, but this isn't remotely worth +35pts each and reloading ordnance should be reserved for odd situations where you will not be in continuous contact.

The old meta.I
t might help to know thart back when BFG was active here on Dakka there was a strong meta preference for Hemlock heavy fleets, so much so that I recommended Hellebores as a challenge for players who were having it too easy with Hemlocks. This isn't however really an adverttisement for the effectiveness of Hellebores they have always been the special needs squadron.

Area effect weaponry.
Also as a by the way, nova cannon are not scary to Eldar formations especially if they don't link together as the non torpedo escorts don't have to do. This is an advantage right there. Also nova cannon are fairly inaccurate, though only 1d6cm scatter can be nasty and you do get holofields against them.
Star Pulse however is just nasty and devastate Eldar, in fact the whole Eldar vs Necron is just a total mismatch.

Hope this helps.

I see now, I just remember how brutal they were to my imperial fleet. My buddy played eldar and he used them along with that crazy bb of theirs. He could be beaten but he won most games. I only just started being able to deal with the crazy movment eldar get by the time we stopped playing frequently. I miss those games. Bfg always felt more cinematic and personal than 40k.

BFG was the best miniatures ruleset GW ever made.

I'm with ya on that one

 Orlanth wrote:
Swords.

Just the right about of firepower and looks cool also.

Bingo. I played against Eldar a lot, so I loved me some Swords.

Be careful Eldar can easily get the drop on Swords and wipe them.

The correct use of Swords against Eldar is close escort, make them come to you. In fact its my prefer use of Swords entirely, Cobras are the escort for offensive use.

Orlanth is pretty much spot on on the Hellebore vs Hemlock & Nightshade.

It is better to have two ships then one ship for only +5pts. Plus it easier to use specialised ships opposed to mixed ships (eg special orders).
And, yes the speed is important to.


Under FAQ2010 the Hellebore came down in points, but I still prefer the Nightshade + Hemlock due tactical gameplay.

The Hellebore would be more passable if it dropped torpedoes and gained a fighter launch bay. This way it would gain an unique roll.
(This is what has been done in the unofficial Eldar MMS rules).

65pts for Hellebores doesnt change much IMHO.

55pts for Aconites doesnt either, because I recommend Aconites but in small numbers.

Add a single Aconite to a squadron of Nightshades, you lose the 15cm upwind move but Nightshades dont need to get in close however the +5 batteries adds to the Nighshades single battery factor each into useful firepower. Three Nighshades and an Aconite offers firepower 8, not bad with Eldar gunnery. Extremely useful for fighting other Eldar and gives Nightshade squadrons a distinct multirole for not much extra.

Aconite squadrons on their own have utility, quite a bit of firepower and they dont need to lock on to make the most of it, fifteen factors of batteries, always closing yields a lot of dice, especially if you split your firepower. Again they murder Eldar of any stripe and are cost effective against Nids. The discount makes this even more favourable.

Hemlocks should cost 45pts.

 Orlanth wrote:
Be careful Eldar can easily get the drop on Swords and wipe them.

The correct use of Swords against Eldar is close escort, make them come to you. In fact its my prefer use of Swords entirely, Cobras are the escort for offensive use.

I haven't played in over 5 years, I doubt I'll ever play again. There is NO interest in the local area for it.

 djones520 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Be careful Eldar can easily get the drop on Swords and wipe them.

The correct use of Swords against Eldar is close escort, make them come to you. In fact its my prefer use of Swords entirely, Cobras are the escort for offensive use.

I haven't played in over 5 years, I doubt I'll ever play again. There is NO interest in the local area for it.

Same here sadly, but replace 5 years with 2 years. I'd still play with my 2 friends who have their fleets but I seriously doubt I'd get someone else to join in. Especially with the models completely discontinued.

I used to run squadrons made up of 1~2 Hellbore, 2 Hemlocks and 2 Aconites or Nightshades.

Make the 1st pass while Locked On, Gun Batteries dropped the shields, Pulsars ripped into the hull and Torpedoes just added to the fun. One pass could almost destroy a cruiser and always left it at least Crippled. End the turn with the squadron positioned aft of the target, so if it wants to return fire it's then a crippled ship (1/2 batteries) having to use Come To New Heading (divide batteries 1/2 again) to get my ships into its fire arc, then another column shift on the gunnery table due to Holoshields and it's down to only putting out one or two dice! The next turn is spent repositioning for another run, usually against another (now crippled) ship that was the primary target of another squadron. My games rarely went more than 4 turns..

Nice moves Swordbreaker, but that is 310pts for the squadron, give or take.

When your attack squadrons cost as much as a cruiser plus support, things need not be so easy.

Facing this with Chaos would be a simple matter of corraling, sure you can go after of one ship, but end up in the gun sights of another. Also the longer range batteries measn you will take losses on the way in, dependent on what else is in your fire arcs your opponent might just brace the target cruiser, it might end up criplled might not, certainly wouldnt try to chase you, let other ships do that.

Two identicle squadrons like this, will cost approx 600pts which will be enough for three cruisers, Chaos or Imperial. You have to face three cruisers, approx.

Imperials would be tougher, few opportunities to whittle down your squadron before you hit the fleet, Swords are needed there.

It is all about position when facing Eldar, if a fleet is split and facing Eldar its dead, if ships can cover each other with battery fire then yes Eldar will hit hard, but wont be able to escape effective return fire.

Heading aft of target in the escape move sounds smart but it only works in isolation, a proper fleet formation will mean that the only way out is to recoil the way you came. Here Chaos fleets with their 45cm ranges can do so much better than Imperials in Eldar whacking.

 Boblogik wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Be careful Eldar can easily get the drop on Swords and wipe them.

The correct use of Swords against Eldar is close escort, make them come to you. In fact its my prefer use of Swords entirely, Cobras are the escort for offensive use.

I haven't played in over 5 years, I doubt I'll ever play again. There is NO interest in the local area for it.

Same here sadly, but replace 5 years with 2 years. I'd still play with my 2 friends who have their fleets but I seriously doubt I'd get someone else to join in. Especially with the models completely discontinued.

Yeah, we've got a small group of guys that play a few times a year. But I'm bringing in a few more over the next few months. I basically have enough for everyone to play whatever fleet they want except for Orks so no one has to pay to play and I can get games in once every few months. I love Gothic but I've long sinced pushed it into the "if I want people to play with I have to provide models" category. Which isn't to bad since I've used ebay and vendors at events to pick up stuff relatively cheaply.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Boblogik wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Be careful Eldar can easily get the drop on Swords and wipe them.

The correct use of Swords against Eldar is close escort, make them come to you. In fact its my prefer use of Swords entirely, Cobras are the escort for offensive use.

I haven't played in over 5 years, I doubt I'll ever play again. There is NO interest in the local area for it.

Same here sadly, but replace 5 years with 2 years. I'd still play with my 2 friends who have their fleets but I seriously doubt I'd get someone else to join in. Especially with the models completely discontinued.

Yeah, we've got a small group of guys that play a few times a year. But I'm bringing in a few more over the next few months. I basically have enough for everyone to play whatever fleet they want except for Orks so no one has to pay to play and I can get games in once every few months. I love Gothic but I've long sinced pushed it into the "if I want people to play with I have to provide models" category. Which isn't to bad since I've used ebay and vendors at events to pick up stuff relatively cheaply.

I've considered that. It may be something I have to wait until I'm post military to do though. Living on base and all that, it severely limits the people I can bring over.

I could start looking for other armies though. They won't be getting any cheaper as time goes on.