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Is there a possibility of making a mono-deathwing army with belial and termies, maybe a LR crusader or two that will be at least semi-competitive?
I am thinking of making this small army at 1500 but i m not sure if this will work.
Can you please lend a helping hand fellow dakkites?
P.S. i thought that since i m just asking and not posting a list it wouldnt fir for this topic to be at army lists.

I tried Deathwing, I struggled to make it very competititive.

As for the best unit, you're looking at TH/SS unit with CML.

I also enjoyed a unit of 10 guys, deep stuck in w/ Belial with 2x AC, 3x TH/SS (for survivability) and 5x SB/PF, maybe a CF/SB if needed.

Another common deep strike unit with Belial is a DW command squad. Usually TH/SS and CML with Banner of Feel No Pain (I forget the actual name.) ANd try and get the other units within 12 inches.

Twinner has the right Idea.

You need to take advantage of the fact that we can mix TH/SS in with our regular shooty terminators.

Deathwing Knights in a landraider can be a nasty suprise for a lot of people.

Run at least one droppod, it comes in automatically on turn one, just like your deathwing assault.

Some tactics advise I can give you:

Remember that, deepstriking terminators Still count towards the "only half the army" can start in reserves. Thats were the knights in LR comes in.

With your low model count you'll have issues with horde armies, and armies that contain a lot of low AP. Run the Redeemer/Crusader for the help against hordes.

In the Droppod: I usually like to put either a dreadnought, or if the points allow it a Veteran squad loaded with Melta/combimelta. or comb-flamers.

Any player worth his salt, will tell your running a droppod list and deploy accordingly, sticking to the edge of the board, and spreading things out so you can't drop in behind them. So pick the side that is "Soft" so they can't bring all their firepower against you.

I had success with a turn 1 10 man belial 2cml ds and then 2 melta flamer dreads in drop pods. Dreads crack transports or thin hordes and the termies can then nail troops that had been in transports, and split fire a cml into an artillery piece.

I find mixing my heavy weapons does wonders, 1 10x man w/ 2 CML, and 1-2 5 mans w/ plasma cannons. or PC AC.

No, it's not really competitive. Terminators are some of the most ovecosted models in the game, due to their ease of being wounded. It's just a matter of statistics before the 2+ gives out.

Martel732 wrote:
No, it's not really competitive. Terminators are some of the most ovecosted models in the game, due to their ease of being wounded. It's just a matter of statistics before the 2+ gives out.

not to sound offensive or, any form there of, but you have a rather morbid view on most MEQ/TEQ armies don't you and, while its not without warrant, just because taudar are at the tip top doesn't mean they "aren't competitive" I actually have a guy at my place that runs a full DW some, he actually beat a eldar player practicing his tourney list, sure he had some slightly above average rolling, but hey, it happened more than once!.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BUT that being said, I do feel that vs anything NOT baledrake cheese, ravenwing bikers have it better.

Okay let me rephrase. I think that the BA codex has a decent shot against deathwing. That's not where you want to be.

If your list needs above average rolling, that's not a good sign. Because there will be games where you roll average or below average. Lists that spit out seventy or eighty shots a turn can power though this. Elite armies can't. Deathwing lists lose if they have one turn of ppor armor saves.

Baledrake's aren't cheesy. They're all CSM have in a way. My BA would have no respect for the CSM without them.

For meqs in general, it sucks to pay for WS, S, and greandes you will never get to use because some wimpy little Eldar shoots you with a catapult weapon.

any list really loses if they have on turn of poor saves, can you imaging a turn as eldar losing 2-3 WS due to failing your cover saves and or some Serpent shield downgrade saves?

but, good planning and decent rolling can make DW and BA very playable, seriously, how many people REALLY know BA enough to systematically cripple them that do not play BA

you can deny a turn of shooting w/ full DW assualt list, then deep strike on one side of the board w/ LoS blocking limiting some firepower, sure eldar can probably scoot around a good bit, but we all know DW wont catch the WS so just sit on an ob. and shoot and tank shots with 1-2 TH/SS in your squad.

Is this balance? fluff wise yes, terminators would never stand a chance in hell of catching eldar, imo, as it should be. (the rending on 6s is BS tho, eldar shurkiens should really not be able to penetrate terminator armor near that easily. )

Anyone who has played against BA a few times and sits down and thinks about it can easily cripple BA, even with below average rolling.

I *know* how to cripple Eldar. I *know* how to cripple Tau. My models and codex options don't allow me to *do* it.

There are many list types that can easily survive a turn of bad saves, even many marine lists. Meqs aren't THAT bad, but teqs certainly are. Compare that in the new codex, you lose a 14 pt meq for every "1" rolled vs a 40 pt teq.

Also, don't forget deep strike mishaps will disproportionately hose over expensive terminators. And tanking with SS means nothing against Eldar certainly, as they are dishing out raw wounds and not relying on AP.

As for your WS example, it's much harder to force the WS to make rolls. That's the difference. Because terminators are just T4 goobers, even lasguns can force huge amounts of saves. You need heavy weapons to even force the WS to roll dice. That's why a bad turn of saves is far more unlikely for WS.

I am posting assuming semi-competitive means a win rate between 2-2 and 3-1. I will say that DW can be a very good army in this win bracket but is one of the hardest to play armies. I will post some thoughts and some key elements to a good DW list.

Terminators are bully units. This is the first and most important point. Termies are very simply the least efficient dakka in the game. They are 250 pts that have the resiliency and damage of 150 pts even in their best range bracket and without taking AP2 into account. What you are paying those points for is a guaranteed beta strike, deployment anywhere on the board, and immunity to some of the more annoying weapons in the game. Therefore if you drop your termies near a bulk of TAC marines you will get murdered with little recourse. What you need to do is drop near something important or vulnerable and in such a way as to mitigate some of the return fire. You then need to stick around long enough to score an objective. This is why beacons and the right heavy weapon is so important.

DW are one of those armies that require a really good player. If you make a mistake even a small one it will cost you 250 pts. Therefore you will loose almost constantly when you first start but if you get good with DW then you will bring the pain.

DW really benefits from mix wing or allies due to the limit of units that can be put into reserves. I play forgeworld and so in my DW armies I use tarantula sentry guns to give me 3 units on the board and some AA ability.

If you are going to use allies. IG allies with Azzy leading a blobb is a great addition. DW struggle with an anvil type unit that can occupy the board and fight a war of attrition. Azzy led IG blobbs do both of these to an incredible degree. IG can also give some barrage and AA abilities that the DA dex lacks.

If you use Belial then I recommend the HF on his unit. The pinpoint DS and TL HF can remove whole squads and you can even split fire it so you can shoot the bolters at something else.

On most units I would not recommend the plasma cannon. The AP2 just isn't that important and S7 1 shot is not enough against vehicles. If you have the points I would take CML. HF are great if you have anti tank elsewhere in the list and have beacons to DS onto. Finally AC are okay but you need to have something you opponent is forced to move to deal with. AC are only good if you can get rear armour on something. AC against hordes is a mistake as it tricks you into thinking you did something but the next turn you will realize it is a drop in the bucket.

DW kights can be a great distraction unit but you need to recognize that they are really there to absorb firepower and not to carry the weight in your list. A unit DS somewhere the opponent has to deal with them (hopefully somewhere they have to move away from causing gunline dispersal) or a unit in a LR which causes the unit to stay back can be useful. Just recognize that they require a lot of support to do something.

TH/SS is great for 1-2 models per squad to help tank AP2 but it is a trap as you can quickly remove your shooting and spend all your points. Be wary.

Hopefully some of that helps.