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I'd love to play them but they seem to have killed all of them off except blood bowl but for the others espescially battlefleet gothic, necromunda, and mordiemn i cant find models or rules anywhere can someone tell me where i can find rules and/or models for these games thanks.

The usual culprit is money.

Essentially, GW stopped putting the required resources into specialist games a while back. So fewer and fewer people were buying.

Combine that with the move away from metal models and you have a situation where GW had to make a decision: either put time/money/effort into specialist games or finally put them out to pasture. They could have moved the molds to finecast, but a lot of people think finecast was a huge mistake.... and GW seems to be closing that production method down as well. Which means plastic all the way. With GW continually trying to figure out how to reduce costs, converting the models for those lines to plastic would be seen by them as a bad idea.

My $0.02 I'm actually glad GW finally shut them down. Other games manufacturer's have great offerings in those areas and it led me to Firestorm Armada which is a great game.

They didn't want costumers to be distracted from their cash cow 40K.

And Blood Bowl pretty much is killed off. They sell the core set on the web because they haven't sold out yet. All teams (like Chaos Dwarfs and Lizardmen) and star players are gone.

And I second clively on that it lets other companies fill the niche that is games that are actually fun to play. The only people who should be missing the specialist games are those who are nostalgic about them. If you like the sound of Necromunda, Mordheim and Battlefleet Gothic there are plenty of clones out there.

Don't want to be a Cynic here, but....

Warhammer historical was set to release a WW2 set.

Then Bolt Action along with Black Powder and hail Ceaser got popular, a pie which priestly has got his filthy fingers into.

Battlegroup Kursk came out. Written by Warwick Kinrade, a writer for Forgeworld, that and I heard somewhere PSC was only meant to be Eastern Front. But then just randomly started putting out allies.

Oh and not forgetting Battlefronts U.K head office used to be in Lenton, is now in Beeston, for non geographical inclined people, that is a approximately a car ride of between 20mins - 30mins if that.

Either the historicals range was cancelled due to competition from the above or..

My personal opinion is that they have all done a deal. Meaning while the writers are able to write for other companies it allows GW to concentrate on their main earners.

Or I'm talking crap in my opinion, but the facts are right, or were at time of posting.

The specialist games themselves began to lose money, and in my opinion this is where infinity/warmachine/etc comes into it. from what I have seen these games cover a more skirmish based type of game that went under the specialist games banner, so rather than provide the alternative to 40k, they provide the alternative to the specialist games. Rather than waste expensive manpower selling the specialist games they cancelled them. It was around that time that 40k started developing from a 'luxury' game into a cash cow.

On privateerpress i found a game that seems like necromunda called level 7, looks fun.

I just wish they had at least put some of the weapon sprues and enforcers from necromunda into finecast rather than the depths of oblivion.

I'm having a heck of a time getting more ash waste sniper rifles.

Maybe you can find something similar on http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/ for that look for scopes and stuff (p.s. they have chainsaw baonets for a cool murderer look but their space marine size) hope this helps Zuul.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*Bayonets, sorry.

Well if you are looking for the rules, they are still on the website. Just go to the "specialist games" tab and click the resources heading under the game you want. They support the specialist games in a general sense, they have all the game martial downloadable for free off their site, but there will be no more model production, new releases, etc so the games are more stagnant then anything.

If anything out of all of their specialist game, Battlefleet Gothic probably has the best chance for revival since apocalypse 40k expansion does have some links to space combat in the form of fluff and it has been used in conjunction with it in some cases as well as art work in their codexs and video games. Thou a true investment leading to more models and new rules is highly unlikely

 necrovamp wrote:
Don't want to be a Cynic here, but....

Warhammer historical was set to release a WW2 set.

Then Bolt Action along with Black Powder and hail Ceaser got popular, a pie which priestly has got his filthy fingers into.

WH Historical got closed down way before Bolt Action appeared, I seem to remember. I think Hail Ceaser might have come out, but without any army lists at that point.

 necrovamp wrote:
Don't want to be a Cynic here, but...

Warhammer Historicals were all but dead for years, it was suffering from the same neglect that specialist games were. GW obviously had no interest in it and when Rick Priestly was sacked they binned the whole thing entirely. WH did have quite a dedicated following, its Warhammer Ancients and Warmaster ancients in particular were well regarded so I think that it is unlikely that the impending release of competing games were what made GW kill it given the vast range of historical rulesets that exist for all periods. Rick Priestly wrote both BlackPowder and Hail Ceasar rules so as he made pie he can stick his fingers where ever he likes.

Isn't Battlegroup Kursk and its expansions based around the WH WWII game that they couldn't be bothered to release?

GW's 'core game' concept is what ultimately killed off specialist games. All support was withdrawn from smaller games so that GW could concentrate on 'streamling' WHFB and 40K with the natural consequence of eroding the player base to the point where sales probably fell off to such a level that GW happily binned the whole project (GW's pricing undoubtably had something to do with this as well, their Epic range was obscene).

What they should have done was simply turn the whole thing over to Forgeworld, they could have easily kept it afloat.

The Specalist games range contain my favourite GW games (Necromunda, Epic, BFG) and they could easily fulfil the role of gateway game, something that GW is completely lacking at the moment.

GW, because you suck, and we hate you

I really don't like the attitude of "Loads of other companies make games that replace them". I don't want similar games, I want those games!

Yes, it seems silly and bratty but if we're talking about hobbies then it makes sense to focus on what we enjoy. Personally I'm not a fan of GW but love the world of Necromunda, Gorkamorka, and Mordheim.

The rules matter but without the background (with which I have so much history) I might as well do something else for fun.

I'm glad that some of the smaller companies produce models that make many of them playable again though. I imagine 3D printing will help with this too.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 necrovamp wrote:
Don't want to be a Cynic here, but....

Warhammer historical was set to release a WW2 set.

Then Bolt Action along with Black Powder and hail Ceaser got popular, a pie which priestly has got his filthy fingers into.

WH Historical got closed down way before Bolt Action appeared, I seem to remember. I think Hail Ceaser might have come out, but without any army lists at that point.

Warhammer historical was closed on the 25th May 2012 with their last planned game Kampfgruppe Normandy Written by Warwick Kincade, so it seems this ruleset may have become the 'Battlegroup' rules, unless Kincade wrote a whole new set of rules which was unlikely. This was to come out in 2011 and was to be on sale at Salute on the 16th April 2011.

Bolt Action was released some time around September 2012.....not sure on the correct date since I cannot find it, anyone with a copy could maybe give me the date of publication?


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Is WH Historical not considered part of the specialist games?

I may have misread the tread title slightly..

The good thing about games such as Necromunda/Mordhiem etc is that you can use any models with them, and since the majority of the figures look outdated anyway (unless you like them, i do have some old necromunda figures I use for Inquisitor) then there are plenty of companies making individual figures you can use in your games. Theres always normal fantasy figures and 40 figures..bloodbowel figures may be hard to get hold of.

Ebay could be your friend.

 necrovamp wrote:
bloodbowel figures may be hard to get hold of.

Ebay could be your friend.

BB teams can be easily converted from WHFB models, so that's not a massive problem.

There are alternative models for bb eg black scorpions teams and as some one said above fantasy minis convert really easily.

 necrovamp wrote:


Is WH Historical not considered part of the specialist games?
.

No, it was a different company under GW ownership like Forge World.

WWII Warhammer Historical game was release it was Kampfgruppen Normandy. Written by Warwick Kinrade they guy who also made Battlegroup Kursk, Overlord, and Fall of the Reich.

However, I do really miss Aeronautica Imperialis and still play it a lot.

 necrovamp wrote:


Then Bolt Action along with Black Powder and hail Ceaser got popular, a pie which priestly has got his filthy fingers into.

I know nothing about Priestly other than he writes rules but why the hate towards him? Not really sure how him writing rules for something is him getting his filthy fingers into it.

So as not to bog the thread down i this will be my last post on him, if you want to carry on pm me or something. I do not like his 'I am wargaming' approach. Just read Wargames Illustrated to see what I mean, it went from a good wargames magazine to an advert for his ego.

 necrovamp wrote:
So as not to bog the thread down i this will be my last post on him, if you want to carry on pm me or something. I do not like his 'I am wargaming' approach. Just read Wargames Illustrated to see what I mean, it went from a good wargames magazine to an advert for his ego.

Surely that was largely due to Battlefront?

 Flamekebab wrote:
I really don't like the attitude of "Loads of other companies make games that replace them". I don't want similar games, I want those games!

All I can say to that is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIX0ZDqDljA

It comes down to money.

If a product isn't selling enough to justify the expenses of keeping stock then it doesn't make sense to keep offering it.


Just keeping the molds in working order sitting in the corner is going to make you lose money because of the space they are taking up. So it simply made sense for them to drop the lines.

Now they could have licensed the game out to another company and charged royalties instead. That would have made them a bucket of money IMO. BFG especially could have been revitalized with a fresh launch and could have been quite popular. The problem is GW hates any kind of competition, even perceived competition.

 Grey Templar wrote:
It comes down to money.

If a product isn't selling enough to justify the expenses of keeping stock then it doesn't make sense to keep offering it.


Just keeping the molds in working order sitting in the corner is going to make you lose money because of the space they are taking up. So it simply made sense for them to drop the lines.

Now they could have licensed the game out to another company and charged royalties instead. That would have made them a bucket of money IMO. BFG especially could have been revitalized with a fresh launch and could have been quite popular. The problem is GW hates any kind of competition, even perceived competition.

This. It's pretty much good business sense to do what they did, GW doesn't like to take risks apparently and they're still around, but a lot of their decisions aren't so great for the hobbyist.

Also, from what I can tell Firestorm Armada is pretty much BFG with a different skin on it. Might be worth looking into, although the ship molds were really unique and I'm sad to see them go (I always vaguely wanted to make a hive fleet)

Firestorm is about to release a new rules update and, price wise, the game is dirt cheap to get into. I just ordered their new 2 player box set and 4 "patrol fleets" (similar to battleforces) for the other races.

The cost of getting the FA rule book and enough models to field 6 small armies was about 1/3 of the cost of buying a single 40k army. I'm kinda stoked about that.

I'd have loved to have seen the specialist games farmed out to FFG, unfortunately the reference to perceived competition is correct and it would have been viewed as cutting into sales of their own minis.

It also could have been a great joint FFG/FW collaboration, unfortunately, again, FW is expected to make a good profit and time spent on sculpting a BFG tau troop transport is time not spent sculpting another HH space marine unit...

I just wish they'd let up on the few indy sculptors out there that made BFG ships, the voss prow stuff was amazing, until it got C&Dd by the legal flying monkeys.

I honestly only like playing the specialist games anymore. 40k became to aggravating. I felt the FW krieg army I built became useless against some armies. At least in necromunda I could build a new gang.

From what I've heard, the recent events surrounding the specialist line are related to the move toward finecast. In essence, GW has gotten rid of its metal production facilities, so they could either spend the money to move the specialist lines to finecast, or sell of the stock and let them die.

If they were supported, it is hard to imagine that they would do worse than Lord of the Rings. They could easily do well enough to keep a small company afloat, easily. I don't see why GW can't turn that into a profit.

There have been other games to play out there, but if they are responsible for these changes, it is because GW is losing its market share overall (I know a lot of people who will play Warmachine instead of 40k).

GW sees the market as a zero sum game. In recent years, they haven't been trying to open new markets or appeal to new players, but rather to get more money out of their current customer base.

I personally think that the market is opening up- a lot. But I think that GW's strategy is to hunker down and raise the prices on their most loyal customer base, and I don't see that working in the long term.

The molds used for Finecast and Metal are the same. Its why we have the exact same sculpts for some models in both materials.

They could have easily started putting out BFG and their other games in Finecast.

It wasn't a material issue.

I heard and read rumors that starting the spring some of the specialist games are going to make a return, namely Epic 40k. I would love to see a return of BFG, I have a few friends who'd like to see it return as well, we all have sizable fleets. I never had an opportunity to play the other specialist games but I'd like to try epic as well.

I think if we ever see specialist games again it will be in a pre Christmas box set, and they have done so badly in the past (im looking at you dreadfleet) that I think Gw will avoid them for a good long time.

Alessio (I am very sorry if I mangled his name) said in an interview that part of the reason he left Gw was that the directors and hq staff stopped being gamers with a business and became businessmen instead. They aren't interested in the games, just the profits. Specialist games just weren't holding their own.

Most of the specialist games have built up massive industries supplying replacement figures. Just look at dark heresy, their version of the delaque gang makes he's look pathetic.