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As I strive to be a lore-mastering nerd of 40K canons, I stumbled upon a baffling matter during my ascension to enlightenment: if an individual is gifted with the curse of his/her respective Chaos Patron, said mortal being become more and more tied to that which is worshiped. At one point, through an tribute, the mortal forges a pact with the Patron and become an extend of its might, and the ascension is complete.

Now correct me where I'm wrong, but from what I've gathered, the four Chaos Gods are said to favor more to the ones that shows more dedication to them., so why'd any of them grant daemonhood to an individual who is not aligned to him (or the she who thirsts)?

If the individual is now forever absolved into his/her patron, to what patron is a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided aligned? Who resurrects such a being but for one of the four Gods should the individual fall? Think of this: if furries are supposedly the purposeless spawn of the Chaos Waste, is the Chaos Waste even sentient enough to resurrect its subject? And if the Chaos Waste is not responsible for such an act, who/what is?

I know one can see the Chaos Parthenon as different aspects of Chaos Undivided, but last I check, there are constant conflict amongst the four forces, and the Realm of Chaos shifts as the Gods territories fluctuate... and why would any of them grant such a huge favor to an individual that will take no part in their most immediate conflict?

So do they like, just received so much gift from the four Gods that they ascended without the Chaos Gods even knowing it? And on the hierarchy of Daemons, are they marginally on the same level as the Greater Daemons, or are they above or beneath them? (As in, how the followers of Chaos view such an individual, should a Greater Daemon also honors them on a battlefield? How would a Daemon Prince react if is presented with a Greater Daemon?) Sauces are appreciated.

My sauce is currently out of reach (per both Codecise) however, as I understand, CSM Daemon Princes rank less than even Daemons Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons, respectively.

I would imagine that a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided likely becomes aligned some point down the line unless supreme of will, however the whole thing comes down to understanding the nature of the Warp and the Chaos Gods themselves.

This would make 3 different threads if I were to rant about Chaos and the Gods and how they are related, so I'll give you an abbreviated from what I've gathered.

Think of the Warp as one giant super-computer composed of emotion and void, simultaneously omni-present and non-existent, all at once. It is the ultimate Paradox.

The Chaos Gods within the Warp are composed entirely of the Warp, except it's parts of the warp that have coalesced together and generated a basic sentient intelligence maligned to the emotions that created it. This, in itself, renders an even greater paradox. Man creates Chaos, Chaos affects Man. Man rebels against it's Creation. Chaos grows Stronger.

The ultimate threat.

How does this relate to Chaos Undivided? If the Big 4 are subservient to their own domains as well as the Warp itself, then so could a Daemon Prince, Undivided. Something even greater lurks and is appeased enough to ensure that the Ruinous Powers bestow their blessings equally, per the conditions met for Daemonhood.

 lcmiracle wrote:
As I strive to be a lore-mastering nerd of 40K canons, I stumbled upon a baffling matter during my ascension to enlightenment: if an individual is gifted with the curse of his/her respective Chaos Patron, said mortal being become more and more tied to that which is worshiped. At one point, through an tribute, the mortal forges a pact with the Patron and become an extend of its might, and the ascension is complete.

Now correct me where I'm wrong, but from what I've gathered, the four Chaos Gods are said to favor more to the ones that shows more dedication to them., so why'd any of them grant daemonhood to an individual who is not aligned to him (or the she who thirsts)?

If the individual is now forever absolved into his/her patron, to what patron is a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided aligned? Who resurrects such a being but for one of the four Gods should the individual fall? Think of this: if furries are supposedly the purposeless spawn of the Chaos Waste, is the Chaos Waste even sentient enough to resurrect its subject? And if the Chaos Waste is not responsible for such an act, who/what is?

I know one can see the Chaos Parthenon as different aspects of Chaos Undivided, but last I check, there are constant conflict amongst the four forces, and the Realm of Chaos shifts as the Gods territories fluctuate... and why would any of them grant such a huge favor to an individual that will take no part in their most immediate conflict?

So do they like, just received so much gift from the four Gods that they ascended without the Chaos Gods even knowing it? And on the hierarchy of Daemons, are they marginally on the same level as the Greater Daemons, or are they above or beneath them? (As in, how the followers of Chaos view such an individual, should a Greater Daemon also honors them on a battlefield? How would a Daemon Prince react if is presented with a Greater Daemon?) Sauces are appreciated.

I think, IIRC, that worshipping chaos undivided doesn't mean that when you ascend you ascend undivided. You must declare or make a pact with a patron of one of the major gods. Take the word bearers or iron warriors for example. They're just as likely to get possessed by demons of Khorn as they are Slaanish, but they still worship chaos in-general, and they will welcome any gift of chaos.

In Undivided you supplicate all the Gods in equal measure. If you require the services of Khorne, you have to make sure that an offering has been made to the other three to keep them happy, otherwise they might throw a Nurlging in the works, or it's equivalent, to scupper your plan.

Each God in turn grants you part of it's power and ascends you to Daemonhood, or spawndom if you are unlucky.

Take Perturabo for instance. After the Iron Cage Incident he sacrificed the Gene seed of the slain Imperial Fists to the Chaos Gods and they rewarded him with Daemonhood.

Index Astartes: Iron Warriors:

The gene-seed captured was sacrificed to the Dark Gods in return for Perturabo`s elevation to Daemon Prince. One insult had been avenged, and since then the Iron Warriors have lived only to settle accounts with the corpse on the Golden Throne

Hi.

First things first: I recently posted a lot of quotes about the nature of the Chaos Gods. Look here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/560992.page#6230292

As far as I know there are three ways to understand Chaos Undivided:
1) Worshipping all Chaos Gods as a whole. All the gods are seen as manifestations of a bigger concept, Chaos itself. Daemon Princes of this kind are rare (I can only think of Lorgar and the Word Bearers) and the result of a cooperative effort done by the gods. The Chaos Gods hate each other, so it is really rare.
2) Worshipping all Chaos Gods in turns. Black Legion and others do this. They favor all gods, praying to one or another depending on the situation. The result would be something of a hybrid Daemon Prince or a marked one if the ascension is caused by a single god.
3) Worshipping a minor Chaos God. There are four big Chaos Gods, but there are many (perhaps countless) lesser gods.

On the matter of minor Chaos Gods there is very little information in the last editions. You need to go back to Rogue Trader (1st edition) and the book Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned (1990). Pages 85-103 are dedicated to the Lesser Powers of Chaos, allowing you to design your own and to create a full army to depict a new faction around the Lesser Power you created. Lots of stuff there.

On the matter of what they are: Realms of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned. Page 86. "The Lesser Powers of Chaos".
"There are four great Chaos Powers (...). However, there are smaller whirlpools within the warp, lesser vortices spinning around the fringes of greater powers, growing, converging, dividing and eternally moving (...)" "There are also other powers which (...) are in the process of creation". Another option is given: "ancient Powers whose potency has waned".

A fourth option is given in RoC too: an independent Daemon who (same page from RoC:LatD) "owe no allegiance to any Power. Such creatures are small parts of the warp, discreet whirlpools of energy (...) fully conscious." This kind of Daemon could have followers of his own. A nice guy called Kweethul Gristlegut who is based on the Skaven race is given as an example.

And, of course, we have Malal, the fifth Chaos God, as a fifth option: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malal#.UoDev_nTvTo

As you can see, chaos is chaotic, and there are many ways to ascend to daemonhood.

ab·solve
əbˈzälv,-ˈsälv/Submit
verb
1.
set or declare (someone) free from blame, guilt, or responsibility.
"the pardon absolved them of any crimes"
synonyms: exonerate, discharge, acquit, vindicate; More
forgive, pardon


da001: please see attachment.

@pelicaniforce: thank you, I didn´t know that.

 lcmiracle wrote:
As I strive to be a lore-mastering nerd of 40K canons, I stumbled upon a baffling matter during my ascension to enlightenment: if an individual is gifted with the curse of his/her respective Chaos Patron, said mortal being become more and more tied to that which is worshiped. At one point, through an tribute, the mortal forges a pact with the Patron and become an extend of its might, and the ascension is complete.

Now correct me where I'm wrong, but from what I've gathered, the four Chaos Gods are said to favor more to the ones that shows more dedication to them., so why'd any of them grant daemonhood to an individual who is not aligned to him (or the she who thirsts)?

If the individual is now forever absolved into his/her patron, to what patron is a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided aligned? Who resurrects such a being but for one of the four Gods should the individual fall? Think of this: if furries are supposedly the purposeless spawn of the Chaos Waste, is the Chaos Waste even sentient enough to resurrect its subject? And if the Chaos Waste is not responsible for such an act, who/what is?

I know one can see the Chaos Parthenon as different aspects of Chaos Undivided, but last I check, there are constant conflict amongst the four forces, and the Realm of Chaos shifts as the Gods territories fluctuate... and why would any of them grant such a huge favor to an individual that will take no part in their most immediate conflict?

So do they like, just received so much gift from the four Gods that they ascended without the Chaos Gods even knowing it? And on the hierarchy of Daemons, are they marginally on the same level as the Greater Daemons, or are they above or beneath them? (As in, how the followers of Chaos view such an individual, should a Greater Daemon also honors them on a battlefield? How would a Daemon Prince react if is presented with a Greater Daemon?) Sauces are appreciated.

There are other chaos gods. There are only 4 major gods.
If you worship one of the minor ones hard enough and you assend you will be marked by that god, which probably will not look like any of the major 4
If you worship the 4 major gods and all the minor gods equally and you assend you will be marked by no god.

Ala Lorgar and Perturbo. Daemon Prices of Chaos Undivided. There are scores of others.

I you worship chaos undivided you can get the attention of any of the dark gods, but also their wrath!