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Hi everybody. I have been thinking about fielding a Deff Dread for quite some time in my Ork army. The reason why I'm thinking about it is because we play with an Army Selection system at my local club that disallows duplicates outside of troops (and troops are maximum three of the same choice). This means that I only have one Battlewagon in my army to take up one meagre HS slot, so I have plenty of space left. This also means that my army is very varied (SAG Big mek, 2x sluggas in trukks, 20 shootas in BW, 10 grots, warboss, dakkajet, rokkitbuggies, deffkoptas, and so on.) Of course the armies of my opponents are very varied unit wise as well.
I have been thinking about three different loadouts for the Deff Dread:

The solid all around choice (to clear troops from objectives):
3x DCCW and skorcha w. grot riggers. Perhaps two skorchas instead of one? I don't want it to kill too many models and fail the charge.

The all out assault model (runs every turn unless it can make a charge):
4x DCCW w. grot riggers. Perhaps armour plates as well?

And the transport buster:
2x DCCW, 2x rokkits or 2x megablasters.

Regardless of loadout, the goal of the dread would be to move up the centre of the board as fast as possible to draw attention. It's not very expensive being around 100-110 points, but it does a lot of damage if it isn't taken out. If it doesn't get any attention, it should be able to make it to an enemy unit and tear it apart.

Right now, I play against Space Marines (Either DA or BT) almost every week, but some times there are Eldar, DE and Daemons as well.

What do you think? Does a Deff dread have a place in a varied list in a varied meta? Or is it just outright garbage and I should wait for the next codex to hopefully give it some kind of transport option?

I would never say anything is garbage, because their is always someone who can make something work for them and their playstyle. Aside from that, in my own games when I bring the deff dread he is usually taken out before he even reaches the frontlines. He usually just gives up first blood.

Hopefully, you will get some good tips, because I would love to bring mine out again.

Well the Deff Dread is even one of the more survivable vehicles in Codex: Orks, though that isn't saying much with AV12/12/10 and enclosed. It's around the same durability of a loyalist dread, just with a lot less support options.

I was thinking about moving it up behind the Battlewagon, protecting its rear from deep strikers and taking cover at the same time. The BW should draw most of the fire, until the Boys disembark, where the dread can then move out and try to assault something.

I would really like to field a Mega Dread with a kilkannon, but my club doesn't allow IA rules (yet). It has AV 13/13, a 5+ save and the killkannon, at only 75 points more.

I feel bad for you and your club rules. It really hamstrings Orks a lot more so than other armies.

A Tau army can do just fine with only one unit of Broadsides. An Eldar army can do fine with only one unit of Dark Reapers. A Space Marine army can do just fine with only one Land Raider.

But Orks? Most of our best army builds rely on using a LOT of something. One Trukk is laughably destroyed. They're made so that the enemy has to deal with 5 of them at once. Same thing with Battlewagons. Same thing with Killa Kans (when they were still useful) and Lootas. Orks with only 3 units of Boyz? Well that keeps you from using a Green Tide.

But anyways... onto the Dread. If you want a shooty dread, give it two Rokkits. If you want a close combat dread, give it a Skorcha and a CCW. As was indicated earlier, try not to leave it too exposed so that it gives up First Blood really easily. Protect it with a KFF or keep it behind your Battlewagon.

If you're looking for a good Heavy Support choice and you fight a lot of Space Marines, I'd highly recommend a Looted Wagon with a Boomgun.

That is true, but we also use som additional rules that heavily limits powerful units, combinations and death stars, so Orks are far from screwed. I'm new to Orks and so far I have a 50/50 win/loss ratio out of 16 games, so it works decently.

I have been thinking about a Boomwagon as well, but I simply do not dare converting one from scratch so late in the current 'dex lifetime. It might get an official model, it might get changed or removed, or we might simply get something better.

Ork players are a funny lot.

If GW removed the Looted Wagon from the next Ork codex, there'd be rioting in the streets. If GW released an "Official" model for the Looted Wagon, there'd be rioting in the streets. The Looted Wagon has a very long Orky tradition of simply being another tank that you've Orked up and converted.

Personally, I literally "looted" my Looted Wagon. I decided I wanted a Leman Russ Demolisher as my Looted Wagon. I went on eBay, and I found the most horribly painted Leman Russ I could find. I think I got it for a little over $25. When I got it, I removed SOME of the paint but not all of it, and I literally hit the model with a hammer a couple times. Then I just got some plastic card, and rivets and put Orky plating all over it and re-painted it. Turned out pretty good.

Anyways, long story short... in the next Ork Codex it's completely possible that the Looted Wagon will be changed. The Boom Gun might change, and they might give us more/less equipment options for the Looted Wagon, but you can rest assured that it will be in there. I can't promise it will still be worth taking if they muck around with the points cost too much (it's already over-costed as it is, but it's still a fun unit to use!).

If you don't want to convert one, just ask to borrow a friend's Rhino, and use that as a proxy in the meantime.

I always used 2x scorcha, extra armor and riggers. Dirt cheap and deadly.

I just use big shootas x2 super cheap and a fire magnet. The big shootas give you some guns to shoot as you move up the line, are cheap and can bust up transports, infantry, bikes, and light skimmers. The dread cannot be ignored forever else wise it will wreak you! but my list is kind of like yours a little wacky...

difference between the dredd and loyalists variants is the weapons. Deffdredds are melee monsters. Except things that are S8+ at init 3 or higher and has AP2 or better, Deffdredds eat just about everything in melee combat. But they are lousy at shooting due to only 2 bigshootas (that cant be twinlinked) and orky BS. IF we had some way to deploy it closer to the opponent it might be viable because as it is right now, unless you have a terrain heavy board, it should never see melee combat since every army has something that can pop it before it gets anywhere.

Ive fielded my Deffbrute conversion about 6 times purely because i hate having such an awesome conversion collect dust. Ive never had it or my other walkers reach melee.

Loyalist dreads can take lascannons or autocannons and dakka at a distance where they outrange most the weapons they really need to watch for, and sit in cover for a 4+ save against any that does too.

Well, they are excellent deterrent units against enemy mass melee builds.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Well, they are excellent deterrent units against enemy mass melee builds.

I didn't think about it but I guess this is why they aren't in the meta neccasarily right now.

I should have been aware of this to.. I remember clearly that day my buddy ran his dreadnaught into my slugga choppa boyz.. 3 turns of bad PK roles made for a slow game.

EDIT, the noob in me wonders if you can bubble wrap one excessivly enough that everything in front of it is tied up in CC by when the pile in moves gives him his 2" within base to base.

rothrich wrote:
I just use big shootas x2 super cheap and a fire magnet. The big shootas give you some guns to shoot as you move up the line, are cheap and can bust up transports, infantry, bikes, and light skimmers. The dread cannot be ignored forever else wise it will wreak you! but my list is kind of like yours a little wacky...

Well, 2x Big shootas are cheap, but I would rather go for a more killy build personally, since not running just to get 2 str 5 hits on an enemy unit isn't worth it in my opinion.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
difference between the dredd and loyalists variants is the weapons. Deffdredds are melee monsters. Except things that are S8+ at init 3 or higher and has AP2 or better, Deffdredds eat just about everything in melee combat. But they are lousy at shooting due to only 2 bigshootas (that cant be twinlinked) and orky BS. IF we had some way to deploy it closer to the opponent it might be viable because as it is right now, unless you have a terrain heavy board, it should never see melee combat since every army has something that can pop it before it gets anywhere.

Ive fielded my Deffbrute conversion about 6 times purely because i hate having such an awesome conversion collect dust. Ive never had it or my other walkers reach melee.

Loyalist dreads can take lascannons or autocannons and dakka at a distance where they outrange most the weapons they really need to watch for, and sit in cover for a 4+ save against any that does too.

I can see your point in Deff Dreads being melee monsters. They are bad at shooting because of BS2 and the weapons they can get aren't even that good, so throwing points after making a Deff Dread slightly better at shooting is probably bad idea.

What is the point size of the games you usually play? I was thinking if a Deff Dead is better to field in smaller point games, where there is less incoming firepower, or better in larger games, where they are cheap compared to the rest of the army, and there are plenty of other targets in your army.

 juraigamer wrote:
I always used 2x scorcha, extra armor and riggers. Dirt cheap and deadly.

Have you ever had problems with killing too many models and not being able to assault? This is my only concern with runnin two scorchas. It's better to be locked in combat than standing out in the open when so close to the enemy army.

If GW removed the Looted Wagon from the next Ork codex, there'd be rioting in the streets. If GW released an "Official" model for the Looted Wagon, there'd be rioting in the streets. The Looted Wagon has a very long Orky tradition of simply being another tank that you've Orked up and converted.

Even if before you just took the actual tank from another list, orked it up and then called it looted in previous editions.

Murrdox wrote:
Ork players are a funny lot.

If GW removed the Looted Wagon from the next Ork codex, there'd be rioting in the streets. If GW released an "Official" model for the Looted Wagon, there'd be rioting in the streets. The Looted Wagon has a very long Orky tradition of simply being another tank that you've Orked up and converted.

Personally, I literally "looted" my Looted Wagon. I decided I wanted a Leman Russ Demolisher as my Looted Wagon. I went on eBay, and I found the most horribly painted Leman Russ I could find. I think I got it for a little over $25. When I got it, I removed SOME of the paint but not all of it, and I literally hit the model with a hammer a couple times. Then I just got some plastic card, and rivets and put Orky plating all over it and re-painted it. Turned out pretty good.

Anyways, long story short... in the next Ork Codex it's completely possible that the Looted Wagon will be changed. The Boom Gun might change, and they might give us more/less equipment options for the Looted Wagon, but you can rest assured that it will be in there. I can't promise it will still be worth taking if they muck around with the points cost too much (it's already over-costed as it is, but it's still a fun unit to use!).

If you don't want to convert one, just ask to borrow a friend's Rhino, and use that as a proxy in the meantime.

I have only played Orks in 6th edition, so I'm rather new. I don't know a lot of other Ork players, so I didn't know that the Looted Wagon was that much of a staple in the Ork army. I'm just concerned that GW's new trend of not having rules in a codex for a model that doesn't exist will continue, even to the Ork Codex.
I love the idea of a Looted Wagon in general and especially in my army, I even have half an Earthshaker gun ready to convert a boomgun with, I'm just concerned that I don't have enough Orky bits, since my Ork army is rather new and small, so I don't have that many bits yet. I also need a chassis, but buying an ugly one used for a couple of pounds is a good idea for converting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

If GW removed the Looted Wagon from the next Ork codex, there'd be rioting in the streets. If GW released an "Official" model for the Looted Wagon, there'd be rioting in the streets. The Looted Wagon has a very long Orky tradition of simply being another tank that you've Orked up and converted.

Even if before you just took the actual tank from another list, orked it up and then called it looted in previous editions.

How many editions have the Looted Wagon been around?

My number one tip for Deff Dreads is to leave them off the battlefield, and use them for Zone Mortalis games instead.

Honestly, CC dreads and flamers stomp serious face in ZM. As does alot of the other garbage units in every codex (ie Tankbustas are golden here)

As much as I love the my deff dread, they are just dreadful in this edition. Too expensive for something too slow to ever catch up something in close combat.

Hehe, dreadful

Sorry for that horrible joke.

It honestly sounds like the Deff Dread woulden't really fit my list, and that it is almost a waste of points in this edition. I'll wait and see if it gets something useful in the next Codex, like deep strike, a rok-like drop pod, or some transport option like a BW.

Duo scorchas is good. I usually run 1 scorcha 1 DCCW when i actually do field them but duo scorchas works because yea you may shoot yourself out of charge but gotta realize that if you do, your shooting just did way more damage than your punches did. Deffdredds dont have THAT many attacks (iirc 6 on the charge with +1 DCCW purchased) the reason its so deadly in melee is theyre all S10 AP2 at Init2 (so they own most weapons capable of hurting it that are Init1) and unless its immobilized, a LOT of things either cant or can BARELY hurt it in combat due to AV12 front. The last thing you want is having this thing hit a unit with multiwound models without eternalwarrior or T6+ or slam into a vehicle because he will wreck it with ease.

And to answer your question, i usually play 1500-1850pts. I have only played two games below 1000, one was my first ever and the other was it was all we could field since everything was packed up and we noticed we had enough models to play a 750pt game without unpacking everything lol

And i agree. They need either a drop-pod-like delivery, or give them something similar to Dreadknight teleports which is a once per game 30" jump (though since its orky, either only 20" or 30" with a 1/6th chance to utterly fail)

Yeah, you have a point, two Skorchas are going to kill a lot more of the enemy than 5-6 Str 10 attacks at WS4 most of the time. The only problem is that it's nice to stay in close combat, but that depends on the enemy not falling back, either due to failing morale, or "our weapons are useless".

the deff dread BS is too low to waste points with guns. a skorcha is all you need with 3 dccw.

I dont bother running walkers in 6th ed. Much better to add more boyz and more lootas

Seems pretty stupid that our deff dread is nothing more than a flamer platform. Stupid GW and their stupid rules... grumble grumble...

 Mycatdied wrote:
I would never say anything is garbage, because their is always someone who can make something work for them and their playstyle. Aside from that, in my own games when I bring the deff dread he is usually taken out before he even reaches the frontlines. He usually just gives up first blood.

Hopefully, you will get some good tips, because I would love to bring mine out again.

As usual with Orks, you must go all-out in one tactic. When I play my dread, is with lot of kanz. Therefore, you have a kan wall and the KFF somewhere around, allowing you to get a cover save. And use terrain and landscape as much a possible to hide.
At 1000 pts you can easily play with 9 kanz and 2 dreads, which, under KFF ofc, maybe a burden for you opponent. At least, it was the case the two times I played like this

Regarding the configuration, I keep my Dread cheap, with 2 scorchas.

WAAAGH!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Duo scorchas is good. I usually run 1 scorcha 1 DCCW when i actually do field them but duo scorchas works because yea you may shoot yourself out of charge but gotta realize that if you do, your shooting just did way more damage than your punches did. Deffdredds dont have THAT many attacks (iirc 6 on the charge with +1 DCCW purchased) the reason its so deadly in melee is theyre all S10 AP2 at Init2 (so they own most weapons capable of hurting it that are Init1) and unless its immobilized, a LOT of things either cant or can BARELY hurt it in combat due to AV12 front. The last thing you want is having this thing hit a unit with multiwound models without eternalwarrior or T6+ or slam into a vehicle because he will wreck it with ease.

And to answer your question, i usually play 1500-1850pts. I have only played two games below 1000, one was my first ever and the other was it was all we could field since everything was packed up and we noticed we had enough models to play a 750pt game without unpacking everything lol

And i agree. They need either a drop-pod-like delivery, or give them something similar to Dreadknight teleports which is a once per game 30" jump (though since its orky, either only 20" or 30" with a 1/6th chance to utterly fail)

The dread is a regular ork in a walker, so it's 2 attacks +1 from the 2 DCCW it comes with +1 from the third DCCW and +1 from charge, for a total of five on the charge. Otherwise, I agree though.

As for delivery, orks should just be able to drop them with rokks out of the sky, you know, like they do in every single official piece of fluff written about the orkish planetfall in the War of Armageddon. Add a chance of losing a hull point because the dread ended up under the rock, and done. That, or a way to weather shooting, like IWND and/or a 5++ save. I would totally kill for just being able to field those chaos siege crawlers. Allowing them to benefit from the Waaagh! would also be nice.

I wouldn't want to buy all the Lootas for it but I wonder how much dakka a Dread Mob/Ork list could look like if you put 60 Lootas out there with Deff Dreads wielding big shootas and then some bubble wrap boyz with some of there own big shootas.

Or even the gross amount of Kanz with big shootas you could have.

EDIT I kinda want to get that book and try it.. you know after I actually start painting what I already have

Deff dreads aren't exactly the best platform for big shootaz, and in dread mobs you could just field your 45 lootaz as heavy support and fill up your fast attack and troops slots with walkers.

Form experience, the only worthwhile walker is the mega dread. AV13 and 5++ make it very durable, and for once the killkannon is in a place where it can actually do harm. Even if your mega dread gets immobilized somewhere in midfield, you can still harass things with your pie plate.

you'd be better off fielding 9 kanz with bigshootas than 3-4 deffdredds with duo bigshootas (provided you have a mek for the 4th). Reason being, better aim, slightly cheaper, more wounds to shoot through. Kanz are way cheaper than dredds, at 36" the AV12 really wont help much since everything that can hit you is going to own AV12 anyway (that is, outside infantry units). I believe you might be short a bigshoota or two in the end, but BS3 makes up for that anyway and like i said, more wounds so it takes longer to remove. A single big bang can take out a dredd, but not a kan trio.

Also i did the loota spam joke against a nid player once, though i proxied a lot (proxied a lot back then anyway). 2k game, ran 6 groups of 10 lootas lol. Ive noticed it at lower points that when i go above 20 i tend to flop the loota luck a lot, and it was horrific in this game. Only one unit actually did anything lol.