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I've just realized that our bloody vanguards miss the descent of angels rule, meaning that they will scatter standard 2d6 when deep striking. why they forgot their training from when they were enthusiast assault marines? I think that this combined with random charge and expensive backpacks annihilate any interest in them and their old school heroic intervention.. but I've seen them used in some recent list, so I'm wishing to hear your opinion on which can be a good use for this lazy guys.

I could be wrong here, as I don't have my codex at hand, but don't any BA units with Jump Packs get the DoA rule? Which would obviously include Vanguard Vets. Similar to ICs with Jump Packs?

That would be correct. The DoA rule is attached to the Jump packs, not the unit.

Found it! The rule you say is in the paragraph about jump pack in the equipment section, while I was looking at the army list. Thank you guys

 ErioL wrote:
I've just realized that our bloody vanguards miss the descent of angels rule, meaning that they will scatter standard 2d6 when deep striking. why they forgot their training from when they were enthusiast assault marines? I think that this combined with random charge and expensive backpacks annihilate any interest in them and their old school heroic intervention.. but I've seen them used in some recent list, so I'm wishing to hear your opinion on which can be a good use for this lazy guys.

Look under the rule in the codex for Jump Packs. Any BA model with a Jump Pack has the descent of angels special rule. So providing that Blood Angels Vanguard Vets have Jump Packs, then they have the descent of angels special rule and thus only scatter 1D6.

Too bad they're still terrible.

Martel732 wrote:
Too bad they're still terrible.

It could be worse. Look at the space marine codex. Thats what we have to look forward to in terms of vanguard vets.

At least they'll be cheaper. Along with everything else. Which will be welcome.

 DarthOvious wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Too bad they're still terrible.

It could be worse. Look at the space marine codex. Thats what we have to look forward to in terms of vanguard vets.

I think the C:SM VV are much, much better. I'm such a cheap ass, I know. But stuff dies so easily now, if I could pay for 8 pt marines with WS 2 and LD 7 and init 1 I would. Because my marines don't break ,they die. They don't get to swing in HTH, they get shot.

It has occurred to me that with my preference for throw away units, I shouldn't be a marine player. In fact, I hated this aspect the 5th ed BA codex. But this is what I own, and my probability of starting a new army is flat out zero.

Though this does seem to be a common issue with the codex. Perhaps with codex books in general.

It's a good sized book, I think mine cost about £25. All I (and probably most people) really needed was the rules. But we also had to buy 80 pages of copypasta from older books, photographs from the website, and some fanwank stories about Space Jesus... And I can live with all that.

However, after padding out the book with incidental nonsense, they then decided to cram the entire rules on less than 10 pages scattered thoughout the book in the most abbreviated form possible. Which leaves you thumbing backwards and forwards through the codex AND the brb, every time you want to look up what a unit does.

Lots of people were confused by the way the DOA, TRT and IC rules were presented. I think they even got it wrong on Beast of War. I still don't know if DC Tycho was ever supposed to be part of the Death Company. RAR seems to 'not say yes', so no... but also maybe? Was the apothecary initiate supposed to be a subset of honourguard or is he really not allowed any other wargear? Who knows?

Given the size of the book, and what they charge for it, they could have at least had a page for each unit, with all its points wargear and special rules in one place for easy reference. I would have been more than happy to sacrifice a few fanfic pages for that.

 Smacks wrote:
Lots of people were confused by the way the DOA, TRT and IC rules were presented. I think they even got it wrong on Beast of War. I still don't know if DC Tycho was ever supposed to be part of the Death Company. RAR seems to 'not say yes', so no... but also maybe? Was the apothecary initiate supposed to be a subset of honourguard or is he really not allowed any other wargear? Who knows?

Quick answers, as it's not clear if you've caught up on these since...
DC Tycho isn't an Independent Character. He can't join *any* unit, never mind DC - and the complete silence on the topic since leads me to believe that's what was intended.
The Sanguinary Novitiate doesn't get Honour Guard options, this was FAQed, along with a number of other similar models in units for other books.

Given the size of the book, and what they charge for it, they could have at least had a page for each unit, with all its points wargear and special rules in one place for easy reference. I would have been more than happy to sacrifice a few fanfic pages for that.

But they DO have a page for each unit...? The bestiary. Between the fluff and wargear. Any specific rules for that unit are listed there. If it's a universal special rule or one that applies to the army, it makes sense to put it in one place and then refer back to it - that's why the Rulebook has generic special rules (like Fearless or Feel No Pain) that apply to LOTS of armies.

What you suggest, about having the rules fully written out for each and every single unit, makes no sense in book format. In fact, I guarantee it would cause more uproar amongst more players for the reduced page count elsewhere than it would please people. Now, if you pick up the iPad version of the Codex, you CAN pull up the unit's rules all from one place...

One thing I have seen in the codices is the rules section is before all the color page layouts, then the army section with point costs and who can take what is after. So I have to thumb over 15+ pages of pictures to find the rule I am looking for. That's a bad layout choice to me.

 Super Ready wrote:
DC Tycho isn't an Independent Character. He can't join *any* unit, never mind DC - and the complete silence on the topic since leads me to believe that's what was intended.

That is really just speculation. They might have removed his independent character to prevent him leaving the DC, not joining it. I recall someone posting that he was shown in WD as part of the unit (possibly in a battle report?) which clouds the issue further. GW neglecting to clear the issue up isn't exactly unusual.

Given the size of the book, and what they charge for it, they could have at least had a page for each unit, with all its points wargear and special rules in one place for easy reference. I would have been more than happy to sacrifice a few fanfic pages for that.

But they DO have a page for each unit...? The bestiary. Between the fluff and wargear.

The bestiary certainly doesn't have points costs, and it doesn't state that Vanguard will get DoA with jump packs. Yet apparently assault squads always have DoA even if you remove their jump packs and stick them in a deep striking land raider (at least that is how it appears in the book). It is these inconsistencies that confuse people, and the point I was trying to make is that in 100 page rulebook, there is ample room to cover this stuff. But instead we get one ambiguous line, and 3 full page spreads of bald man screaming.

Rumbleguts wrote:
One thing I have seen in the codices is the rules section is before all the color page layouts, then the army section with point costs and who can take what is after. So I have to thumb over 15+ pages of pictures to find the rule I am looking for. That's a bad layout choice to me.

And that takes what, all of 15 seconds?

Eldercaveman wrote:
And that takes what, all of 15 seconds?

15 seconds is a long time if it is something that keeps happening. People are always having to stop and check rules, (not just in 40k) if you have to flip around looking for the right page, only to be then told to look in another book, then it gets annoying. Not just for you but for the people you are playing with too.