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SO, while I agree with most of the "terminators needs a buff for thier points" rage going on. (seriously... I read fluff about these guys and then go wait. these are them??) but as we all know QQing won't get much done. So I have been testing out terms and found areas where they shine. I will say tactical terminators leave things to be desired, but assault terminators can be used to great effectiveness (still say they need a buff as it can be a hit or miss thing :/ )

1. Use them as an isolated ( not isolated from your army per say, hit something the enemy has left "open") strike force, it was actually playing DW where this occurred to me. They excel at threatening one area of the board, not looking a whole army line in its face like bosses (even if some fluff has them do this).

2. as the stated Isolated strike force make sure to pick the proper targets. Don't send them against a swarm of little bugs (or men). find the hardest nut to crack in your enemies list whether it is 2+ save men, a MC or 2. Terminators excel in elite vs elite battles. to be frank there are not many "elite" units in other armies that can take on a squad of terminators much less in melee.

3. DO NOT throw them at units that can run around them 3 times and laugh before they even move (crisis suits). I am sure there is a nice riptide you can find somewhere. Sometimes it is better to avoid infantry all together and use them as back field tank and vehicle hunters. This causes the enemy to A, lose his vehicles (if he has any) or divert forces away from your main force to his rear. ( I would not recommend splashing them down behind an IG/tau gunline alone)

4. support them. Whether this is other terminators, or the main anvil of your army. Terminators work best when you have supporting units with them. Now you can throw 3 scout squads with terminators and expect much. They have to be with something that FEELS threatening to the enemy, (whether or not it truly is) OR most of your army.

If you have anything to add to the ways of terminator use that I have not stumbled on yet do add them. Also if you really want termiantors be good I suggest making a DW army, as you can go 2 TH/SS with a heavy weapon . All said I want to see terminators get a buff. either give them T5 maybe and an extra heavy weapon in 5 man squad or something along those lines. (sadly I feel they may just get a price reduction which, I would also be happy with)

Assault termies in Land raiders. Not what i would call cheap but it still works.

Nothing is funnier than a LR with logan and 6 or 7 Assault termies come screaming down on some one

i wanna try Iron hands LR with temies.

Just an aside, tactical terminators are more effective vs. vehicles than assault terminators, even in melee. Courtesy of the Chainfist.

Another note, I avoid buying Land Raiders for my terminators. It turns a 200-250pt "SHOOT ME!" magnet into a 500pt "SHOOT ME!" magnet. Deep striking onto strategically placed teleport homers is fantastic. Enemy must then devote 2-3 squads of small arms fire at them (because elite fire is wasted, lol 3++). If they don't, assault next turn. If they do, the homer-holding unit (and 1-2 other units) did not receive fire this turn. Mission accomplished.

Yeah, I like Tactical Terminators a lot. You get one heavy weapon per five guys, so it is actually pretty solid. Drop in, shoot 8-10 bolter shots and a heavy weapon (Cyclone ML, Flamer, or AC). Then next turn if they don't assault you, do the same thing and then assault. I always throw a CF on the Heavy weapon and the Power Fists are pretty sweet. I just wish the Sergeant could upgrade to anything better than a power sword, specially when he doesn't even get +1 attack by having it. Oh well, just means he is a great guy to deal with challenges and you will not miss him when he dies.

i'd gladly sacrifice one or two of their initiative for an extra wound on their profile

Belial coming down turn 1 with a well-placed HF squad works wonders against some of the most popular armies these days.

Shooty termies with the IF CT and a CML is nice, specially when you stick Lysander in front to tank wounds.

Hammernators are still a great bargain and threat factor, deep striking them with the BT CT wouldn't be bad since you get the highest of 2 dices to run them and get a nice spread or get closer to the enemy.

Mali wrote:
Assault termies in Land raiders. Not what i would call cheap but it still works.

Nothing is funnier than a LR with logan and 6 or 7 Assault termies come screaming down on some one

i wanna try Iron hands LR with temies.

Sadly only the terminators and the LR is more than 500 points. Add Logan and it becomes massively overpriced. No way they are going to pull their weight (pointswise) unless you get to attack a juicy deathstar. Sure they get to wreck whatever they charge, but 2+ save models drop to volume of fire just as anything else.

I just tried a "full" melee list with SW (Thunderwolves, Terminators, younameit) and if was a disaster. It was against Orks no less. You'd be surprised how much dakka they can pull off with 3 Battlewagons, 3 Dakkajets and 10+ Nob Bikers. I'm more than ready to declare assault truly and properly dead in 6th Edition. Sure there are some lists that can pull CC lists off (massed (F)MCs and the like, maybe Necron Wraithwing), but marines? No way.

1. There are better units to threaten flanks or deploy in isolation. Like any good Infiltrate/Outflank unit.

2. Most elites will wipe the floor with terminators due to AP2 and higher initiative. Some even boast invulnerable saves if you actually survive to swing. Storm bolters are something, but not very impressive.

3. There are far, far better tank hunters in the book and allies than terminators. Riptides are just as mobile as XV8.

4. Or you could use a better unit that doesn't require support, or will be even better than terminators when properly supported.

Sorry, I'm not seeing it. No matter how intelligently and skillfully you play with terminators, you're still going to be handicapped by their inferiority. Apply all that skill and expertise with a superior unit and you will reap even better results.

There is nothing any terminator does, including the TH/SS terminator that really justifies their price point.

I disagree. Terminators have their place, they are just no longer a 'win button' for poor players. You can't plop down 5 Terminators in the middle of someone's army and expect them to destroy it because your a 2+/5++ unit. Everything dies to this game from mass dice because shooting gives people mass dice and they are starting to figuring it out. Over watch has helped out shooting armies a lot as well.

End of the day, you still have to play with the assumption your going to need AP 2 weapons to deal with something like Terminators, just like you have to have a way to deal with AV 14 and deal with flyers. You can ignore it, that is an option, just not a wise one.

Now, I am not saying Terminators are dead or are still the best thing on the board, but they are better than what they were in 5th Ed when every power weapon penned them. They still crush most troop selections out there and are still a threat. You can still make a Death Star out of them. They are not terrible, just not as good as they were in earlier editions.

But the volume of fire in 6th is even higher, and they didn't get cheaper. They are still quite bad.

Martel732 wrote:
But the volume of fire in 6th is even higher, and they didn't get cheaper. They are still quite bad.

So much this. As a guard player my volume of fire isn't even the highest out there, but terminators provide a decent target for FRFSRF. Tau and Eldar have even more dice to roll. Those expensive terminators might kill a sacrificial squad or chimera if I don't deal with them soon enough, but they're not exactly hard to deal with...
The point that they become a worry is when there's a lot of them, but they're not cheap enough to manage this. Look at deathwing; even though those terminators are scoring it's still a below par list.

Mali wrote:
Assault termies in Land raiders. Not what i would call cheap but it still works.

Nothing is funnier than a LR with logan and 6 or 7 Assault termies come screaming down on some one

i wanna try Iron hands LR with temies.

This. So much this. Deep Striking termies can be fun and gimmick-y, but the terminators really excel in assault (even tactical termies). The ability to assault-on-arrival is something too good to pass up, in my opinion. Full squads of hammernators are too expensive anymore, at least in my experience, so I tend to go 2/3 with hammers and claws. As far as the Land Raider goes, while there has been some apprehension in this edition about how vehicles supposedly go weaker, I run a Land Raider almost every game, and can count on one hand the number of times I've lost in since 6th came out. It's still a reliable transport/assault platform. I completely agree that a Land Raider filled with termies draws a lot of enemy fire, but with such high AV, low armor save, and good invulnerable save (if you have shields), they can easily weather the storm.

In terms of using them right, the OP pretty much has it down here. They need force concentration, proper support, and to pick good targets, and then they can perform.

For a Land Raider deathstar I'd rather have Honour Guard or Vanguard (more attacks/wounds per transport slot), so I'd say termies are better DSing on a weak flank, preferably out of LOS and with either some pod marines or assault marines, and getting stuck in as soon as possible. Vehicles should be the primary targets unless you get a real opportunity against a non-AP2 HQ or small squad ( they can't SA and against big squads this really hurts, locking them in a war of attrition they aren't going to win).

As with most units, there are better options, but termies can still get the job done if used well.