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I here a lot of people saying that he is bad this edition. I have to disagree. I have seen him go through and literally beat the living feth out of every single Sgt and HQ in some lists (barring EW characters). those instant death sixes are nasty.

For me he was crap-tastic.

140pts for 2 Wounds and 2+1 Attack? S4 is not a very threatening thing even considering AP at Ini. The insta-gib on 6's isn't a good or relyable thing, a nice little trick but nothing more. If I could roll that many 6s then my nerfed-chaplain could wreack just as many faces too !

For 65 more point I could field a guy with 2x Wound, 2x Attack more than him and with better spec rules. I couldn't imagine a scenario where the Champion could defeat an HQ with the same amount of points.

But I'm happy that at you could use him effectively atleast !

most epic moment was when I was first trying them out (proxying my BA and some DA stuff with a friend) he dueled mephy and insta killed him lol. one of the more memorable times where he has more than gotten his points back XD. (seriously though, keep him withing the (12?) inches of the chapter banner w/ HG and CM or marshal for the +1. its nice. even hitting on fours I get about 3-4 of my 5 attacks on the charge into hits. My dice either love me or hate me, as in, I then roll like 2 1s and a 2 or 3, or 2 5s and a 6 XD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although I am sad to see mephy so instabiged by a model half his points it was indeed a epic moment and indeed very game changing!

 raiden wrote:
I here a lot of people saying that he is bad this edition. I have to disagree. I have seen him go through and literally beat the living feth out of every single Sgt and HQ in some lists (barring EW characters). those instant death sixes are nasty.

The reason why is that running through the math, he is completely unreliable for what he is. You have to rely on rolling a six to wound and causing ID, without you are just doing S4 AP2 wounds...that is nothing to write home about. In a challenge with an ork nob with power claw the EC will lose more times than win statistically, that is saying a LOT.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 raiden wrote:
I here a lot of people saying that he is bad this edition. I have to disagree. I have seen him go through and literally beat the living feth out of every single Sgt and HQ in some lists (barring EW characters). those instant death sixes are nasty.

The reason why is that running through the math, he is completely unreliable for what he is. You have to rely on rolling a six to wound and causing ID, without you are just doing S4 AP2 wounds...that is nothing to write home about. In a challenge with an ork nob with power claw the EC will lose more times than win statistically, that is saying a LOT.

how is the emp champion losing with re-roll to hit? just needs 1 6 or 2 wounds. if he charges thats 4 attacks hitting on 3s re-rolling. :/ all them should hit most of the time. sure he needs 2 fours out of that but thats statistical.

 raiden wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 raiden wrote:
I here a lot of people saying that he is bad this edition. I have to disagree. I have seen him go through and literally beat the living feth out of every single Sgt and HQ in some lists (barring EW characters). those instant death sixes are nasty.

The reason why is that running through the math, he is completely unreliable for what he is. You have to rely on rolling a six to wound and causing ID, without you are just doing S4 AP2 wounds...that is nothing to write home about. In a challenge with an ork nob with power claw the EC will lose more times than win statistically, that is saying a LOT.

how is the emp champion losing with re-roll to hit? just needs 1 6 or 2 wounds. if he charges thats 4 attacks hitting on 3s re-rolling. :/ all them should hit most of the time. sure he needs 2 fours out of that but thats statistical.

True, on the charge. But if it isn't on the charge, because that gives an unfair advantage to one side when you are trying to compare baseline stats, EC gets three attacks with re-rolls, so on average you will get three hits. Then you will get 1.5 wounds. So you might kill the Nob but, if you don't, all he needs is ONE hit to kill the EC. I don't have the Ork codex on hand but I believe a Nob only has 2 attacks, 1 hit, EC has a 1 in 2 chance to not die. Doesn't sound bad but consider ONE is an HQ that cost, what, three times the other?

A nob has 3 attacks.

Nevertheless, your comparison is unfair.

A nob can insta-gib a lot of HQs, including but not limited to: Non EW SM captains, chaplains, librarians, Wolf Lords, Rune Priests, Dante, Azrael, Belial.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
all he needs is ONE hit to kill the EC.

One wound, not hit.

 Bobthehero wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
all he needs is ONE hit to kill the EC.

One wound, not hit.

then 50% chance to not take that wound.

EC's pretty pointless without his vows TBH. For the same number of points you could get some tooled up captain or chaplain. He needs bubble wrap as well, which costs more than the base 140 pts.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
A nob has 3 attacks.

Nevertheless, your comparison is unfair.

A nob can insta-gib a lot of HQs, including but not limited to: Non EW SM captains, chaplains, librarians, Wolf Lords, Rune Priests, Dante, Azrael, Belial.

Yes but MOST of those HQs have a good chance to kill the Nob before it even gets to attack with the claw.

The point is that the EC lacks the attacks to make things happen. I've been playing BT for the better part of five years, amassed close to 4k points, and I used to love the EC in the BT codex. He was free of FOC, relatively cheap at 90 points, I didn't expect him to be able to stand up to a CC HQ but he could do some nice damage. Now he cost, IIRC 140 points, doesn't really get anything for paying those additional points, is apart of the worst CT in C:SM and takes up an HQ slot. You can make a massively better Chapter Master of Captain if you want a CC HQ.

Okay, let's take this another direction. Put EC against an CC HQ. How well does he fair? Abbadon would slaughter him. Swarmlord would slaughter him. Hell a Captain with the Burning Blade and EW shield would beat him handily. He is a sub par CC HQ that is competing with some GOOD choices in the same codex for the same job.

ok, those are also ALL A LOT more expensive than the EC. any HQ with EW is of course going to rofl stomp the EC's face. lets put him up against a HQ WITHOUT EW.

 raiden wrote:
I here a lot of people saying that he is bad this edition. I have to disagree. I have seen him go through and literally beat the living feth out of every single Sgt and HQ in some lists (barring EW characters). those instant death sixes are nasty.

You want instant death? Take a power fist. Done, bam, whamo. You'll be able to instant gib a majority of enemy HQ's. And what, it's only like 25 points.

 raiden wrote:
ok, those are also ALL A LOT more expensive than the EC. any HQ with EW is of course going to rofl stomp the EC's face. lets put him up against a HQ WITHOUT EW.

The point is that THAT is what he is going to have to go up against. Even still, I don't have the C:SM on me at the moment but I am fairly certain that a Captain with EW shield and burning blade isn't much more expensive than he is.

Yeah, gonna have to go agree with the common consensus on the Emperor's Champion's dubious ability to hold his own in the SM codex given his nerf in effectiveness and ability to affect the army.

If he had at least 3 base attacks, another wound or at least kept the +2 strength on the Black Sword without having to be unwieldy/two handed he could have been a cheap source of good mid-strength AP2 initiative swinging goodness compared to the burning blade but now he's just a fluffy addition.