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I've been looking at the new xv107 and I have a battle coming up soon where I will be fighting orks that in the past have use three battle wagons and possible space marines with rhinos and land raiders.

The cluster fire sound amazing but the model eats up a lot of points I could have a team of three broadside with extras for similar points

If you don't know about the xv107 there is a download pdf on forge worlds site take a look , tipical forge world it looks impressive but is it playable?

I would love to hear people's oppions

Thanks

General consensus is that it's massively overpowered and will get significant changes before it gets final rules.

 Afro Tau wrote:
I've been looking at the new xv107 and I have a battle coming up soon where I will be fighting orks that in the past have use three battle wagons and possible space marines with rhinos and land raiders.

The cluster fire sound amazing but the model eats up a lot of points I could have a team of three broadside with extras for similar points

If you don't know about the xv107 there is a download pdf on forge worlds site take a look , tipical forge world it looks impressive but is it playable?

I would love to hear people's oppions

Thanks

I own one and have played with one. It is a really good unit and solid choice.

Yep, this thing might cost about 300 points (with the obvious stimulate injector), but it will also do about half that much damage every turn, while being really hard to remove.

Thanks for the feed back
I have a plan to do a farsight list and give the xv107 the eathcast pilot array and if I can use marklight to up its bs to 5 .

I think this could be the ulster mate killing machine

Any thought?

 Afro Tau wrote:
Thanks for the feed back
I have a plan to do a farsight list and give the xv107 the eathcast pilot array and if I can use marklight to up its bs to 5 .

I think this could be the ulster mate killing machine

Any thought?

Unfortunately only XV104s are able to take the ECPA.

As it stands, it's ludicrously overpowered. Its only real trade off it it loses the mobility of a Riptide - everything else is better. The thing that pushes a Riptide over the edge is the support it can get, especially support commanders. They're so incredibly good in combination that most armies struggle. This? This needs no support, yet can still get it and become even more ridiculous. It has firepower against vehicles equivalent to that of 12 long fangs (except it's more accurate); if you account for the fact it will almost always hit with commander/markerlight support, it's more like 18. Against MCs, you're acting like 12 Leman Russes. Infantry units are the best off - as if you can classbeing hit by 4 large blasts which will almost always be wounding on 2+ ignoring all but invulns as good at all. The only thing it isn't good against is small units of infantry with 2+ saves which Tau doesn't struggle with at all. It basically just erases units. Frankly, it's more durable than a Hierodule, has the best shooting of any unit in the game and it's stupidly underpriced. I'd say it's the closest thing in 40k to a Gargantuan Creature but frankly it beats some of those even. The kicker? You can take 2 of these, 2 Riptides and 2 Broadside teams using Farsight allies, easily.

The moral? Do not buy this for the rules. Everyone is complaining about this thing and with good cause - it's easily the least balanced model FW have ever produced bar none. The Lucius and Achilles in 5th don't hold a candle to it, nor does the undercosted IG artillery in 6th. It's not even close - this is just flat out the best unit in the game. The only thing it doesn't do is skyfire, but there's really no threat to it from fliers either (we're talking 14 Night Scythes or 7 Vendettas to kill one without Stim Injectors - neither of which you can even do at 2000 points with double force org). It will be hit with the nerf bat, we just don't know how hard. It could become a worse Riptide or it could remain almost the same - there's really no way to know. You can be sure that if it isn't nerfed super hard, even FW tournaments will be reconsidering allowing this - that's how stupid it is at the moment.

worth it?

let me put it this way:

Heavy slot. Same job as Hammerheads with Ion Cannons (AP3 pi plating at long range).
Hammerhead w/ D-Pods, BSFilter = 141pts
Riptide XV107 Stock = 260pts

Almost twice the cost, but grants these benefits:

1)T7 and 2+/4++ means you are not shooting this thing. Hammerhead is AV13 with 4+ cover if he moved.

2.1)Without nova charge, it puts out the same amount as shots as two Ionheads without the Gets Hot! penalty, at the cost of pasting T4 non-extreme bulky models (which is only what, eldar bikes? safe to say he cant paste anything outside a T3 character)
2.2) With nova charge, it fires twice the damage as equal points ionheads with same results as before. And its still a single Heavy slot instead of 2-4.

3) Built in nightfighting, MC rules, and able to move and shoot all its guns.

Literally the only drawback is its not BS4 (iirc) and its not fearless. Very, very minor drawbacks for that amount of firepower. I wont ever field one since i avoid apoc games and that thing is heavily broken for normal games right now. Compared to a Riptide, its drawback is lack of mobility - but were comparing it with something that does the exact same job, the riptide is different. Both hammerheads and xv107s can move6" and shoot, difference is hammerheads only fire 1 gun while the MC fires both.

I am curious about its CC abilities...

SBG wrote:
I am curious about its CC abilities...

Good joke.

Need I say more?

I say this as a long time tau player.

I won't play it against orks or nids, unless in an apoc game.

If feel to do so with the rules in its current state, would be un-sprotsmanlike.

In fact, personally, I wish the rules were toned down...a lot.

Why? Because we were on the cusp of forgeworld gaining better acceptance in more games - then this.

It is a perfect argument for why FW should not be allowed in most places (well that and the new eldar wraithseer...he is just silly for the points).

Of course, I attempt to stay away from things that I find OP (in my opinion, so lets not start a debate ok?).

I just wish forgeworld could write better tau rules.
XV107 - Silly overpowered.
XV9 - silly over costed and non burst cannon versions are almost pointless in new dex.
tx42 - terrible, who wrote this thing? did they even play tau?
All the FW Kroot - silly over costed and zero survive-ability
Heavy gun drones - terrible. They cant work with drone controllers?
Sensor towers - its a fortification? what?
Sentry towers - it does what? for how much?
Ralai - his drones are what toughness, so that makes him what? He does not have a target lock? What?
Tighershark - this thing costs how much and gets a single shot? Its armor is what? For 700 points?
Orca - it costs what? Well at least it has great armor and weapons...wait, what?

Now, at least the barracuda, remora and commander rymr, and tetras are decent (not stunning,but not as bad as the rest of them).
But the utter hit and miss of the fw rules is almost criminal...do any of these guys actually play the game?
(no, I am actually serious in that question, they are really bad, the tx42...its pyrovore bad).
.


but I digress.....
(edit for typo)

Yeah I dont know if this was fair at all...
but I bought one and have had it 2 weeks now..
Ive only played one game with it against my friend..
he plays nids
it RAPED him... took out 1000 points alone

Its practically built to destroy nids

 Afro Tau wrote:
I've been looking at the new xv107 and I have a battle coming up soon where I will be fighting orks that in the past have use three battle wagons and possible space marines with rhinos and land raiders.

The cluster fire sound amazing but the model eats up a lot of points I could have a team of three broadside with extras for similar points

If you don't know about the xv107 there is a download pdf on forge worlds site take a look , tipical forge world it looks impressive but is it playable?

I would love to hear people's oppions

Thanks

If this isn't the worst troll in the world, its the worst judge of what is good. Toughness 7, 4+ invun in shooting without overcharge, overcharge for 2 shots from each gun, 4 pie plates, so 12 potential hits on an av 14 vehicle at str 8, enough to glance most things to death. AP 3 on the hits, so if you shoot bikes and get 3 out of 4 plates hitting, and cover 11 bikes, that's 22! hits on the bikes at str 7, so 2 to wound.

Cons:: oh no, how will I stop that deathwing army that constantly hands my tau losses.

The only saving grace of this giant mess is that since its forgeworld, you have to get permission to use it, no matter what the fanatics tell you. And nobody is going to be stupid enough to play against this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 Afro Tau wrote:
I've been looking at the new xv107 and I have a battle coming up soon where I will be fighting orks that in the past have use three battle wagons and possible space marines with rhinos and land raiders.

The cluster fire sound amazing but the model eats up a lot of points I could have a team of three broadside with extras for similar points

If you don't know about the xv107 there is a download pdf on forge worlds site take a look , tipical forge world it looks impressive but is it playable?

I would love to hear people's oppions

Thanks

I own one and have played with one. It is a really good unit and solid choice.

Just curious if you have found anyone out there willing to play you a second game allowing this on the board? I am betting no. Please be honest.

 Orock wrote:
The only saving grace of this giant mess is that since its forgeworld, you have to get permission to use it, no matter what the fanatics tell you.

You have to get permission to play with ANY unit, no matter where its rules were published. FW rules are no different than any other rules published by GW, no matter what the fanatics tell you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

davethepak wrote:
I just wish forgeworld could write better tau rules.

Mostly it's a problem of not updating them very consistently. Most of the Tau stuff was first written in 4th edition, and most of the rest was still based on the old codex. So you have stuff like the TX-42, which was great when the Tau still had their old codex and flyers were Apocalypse-only, but wasn't really revised properly when the rest of the units its competing with got major improvements.

 Orock wrote:


The only saving grace of this giant mess is that since its forgeworld, you have to get permission to use it, no matter what the fanatics tell you. And nobody is going to be stupid enough to play against this.


Just curious if you have found anyone out there willing to play you a second game allowing this on the board? I am betting no. Please be honest.

Played against it two weeks ago. Runepriest Jawsed it top of turn 1. I'm willing to play against it again.
My opponent on the other hand doesnt want to play against space wolves with it anymore.

One currently broken unit instakilled by another broken power.

Can't wait for GW to update SW codex. Then we no longer need to read about SW player jawsing half of the opposing army turn 1 and offering that power as a solution to every other player.

Jaws for the jaw god.

Naw wrote:
One currently broken unit instakilled by another broken power.

Can't wait for GW to update SW codex. Then we no longer need to read about SW player jawsing half of the opposing army turn 1 and offering that power as a solution to every other player.

People cheer when you arrive at a party dont they? Where exactly did i offer a solution?

People were talking about R'Varnas OP-ness and i had a nice short anecdote on how they sometimes arent OP. This wasnt a solution for anyone ... just simply an anecdote. Additionally im more than certain there will be new stuff in the codex that people can cry about on internet forums if they remove JotWW.

 Orock wrote:

Just curious if you have found anyone out there willing to play you a second game allowing this on the board? I am betting no. Please be honest.

Yes I have. I will admit its a really strong unit and I will admit that my opponents recognise that but they are not too bothered to play against it. Heck, one of my opponents even killed it. He had a Chapter Master beatstick kill it in close combat. He was shielded in a Land Raider which my Hammerhead failed to take it out. When I did open it with my fusion blasters his Chapter Master admittedly survived an insane amount of fire power before charging me and not only killing it but also another unit in CC.

All in all I have used it in four games. One game I lost and the other 3 I won but they were not decisive victories but then two of those were against another player using Tau. So far nobody has refused to play against it. I've been playing Eldar for the last month, so thats why it has only been used in four games so far.

It's seems extremely competative against infantry, though probably not as good against vehicles.

Until you realize each blast does 3 S8 hits on them, and that's actually pretty decent against anything smaller then AV14.

even against AV14 its a threat since 12 shots can glance pretty well. Without tank hunter its unlikely to autokill a landraider but its bound to do some hefty damage. I wouldnt shoot it at a full life land raider unless it was the only target i could hit, though, since it will ravage anything else.

As a tau player that likes riptides even i say its too strong and i'll never field it. I wont accept anyone else fielding it either, but then again im against FW in general. XV107 is the prime example as to why - some units are fine, some are OMGWTFPWNBBQ strong for the cost. Allow FW at all, you run the risk of units like the xv107

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Allow FW at all, you run the risk of units like the xv107

And if you allow codex units at all you run the risk of 4-5 Riptide Tau lists or demons with re-rollable 2++ units.

yes but those take a large chunk of your army. a lot of FW stuff that are insanely strong, like the XV107, are undercosted like hell. So you have this nasty unit plus a sizeable army surrounding it.

4-5 riptides without a huge point list, the tau player wont have much else. A single XV107 wont hurt your points and will do as much damage as 3-4 riptides.

If you allow Forgeworld, you run the risk of running into units like Heavy Gun drones, any of the Gnarlocs, Hammerhead variants, Remora drones, Sentry towers, Sensor towers, the questionable commander suit upgrades, or the Piranha variants.

Is that what you want?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yes but those take a large chunk of your army. a lot of FW stuff that are insanely strong, like the XV107, are undercosted like hell. So you have this nasty unit plus a sizeable army surrounding it.

This makes about as much sense as saying you should ban codex units because Vendettas are insanely underpriced. The list of FW units at the level of the most overpowered codex stuff is a very short one.

4-5 riptides without a huge point list, the tau player wont have much else. A single XV107 wont hurt your points and will do as much damage as 3-4 riptides.

Actually the 4-5 Riptides will do more damage to most targets, and won't die to a single rune priest that gets into JOTWW range. The XV107 is clearly too good, but let's not resort to making stuff up just to make it look even worse.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
even against AV14 its a threat since 12 shots can glance pretty well. Without tank hunter its unlikely to autokill a landraider but its bound to do some hefty damage. I wouldnt shoot it at a full life land raider unless it was the only target i could hit, though, since it will ravage anything else.

As a tau player that likes riptides even i say its too strong and i'll never field it. I wont accept anyone else fielding it either, but then again im against FW in general. XV107 is the prime example as to why - some units are fine, some are OMGWTFPWNBBQ strong for the cost. Allow FW at all, you run the risk of units like the xv107

Right! And don't be surprised when nobody plays against you because you play Tau. Afterall your codex is overpowered. So it should just be banned and you shouldn't play it, doesn't matter what units are in your list.

This is the double standard here. If a codex is overpowered then players just consider it acceptable to keep a toned down list. However when FW is overpowered its a case of banning everything outright, no matter the unit being used.

How do you field 5 riptides? How are you able to ally with your self? If you play Farsight Enclave, you are still using codex:Tau as primary force.

Farsight Enclave can be played as its own, as well as primary force. In fact it has to in order to access The Eight.

Farsight Warlord allows you to bring Ovesa, a Riptide IC
3 Riptides for your elites
Allied Normal Tau for Buffmander + 1 more Riptide

Farsight, Ovesa, and 1 riptide sit with Buffmander while other 3 run circles around this unit. Expensive as hell, but totally legal.

EDIT: And totally cheesy. They probably made you have to bring farsight to limit you from bringing allied enclaves and having Ovesa your 1 HQ choice, or just having him your warlord since hes so damn tough even by Nid standards for MC.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Farsight Enclave can be played as its own, as well as primary force. In fact it has to in order to access The Eight.

Farsight Warlord allows you to bring Ovesa, a Riptide IC
3 Riptides for your elites
Allied Normal Tau for Buffmander + 1 more Riptide

Farsight, Ovesa, and 1 riptide sit with Buffmander while other 3 run circles around this unit. Expensive as hell, but totally legal.

EDIT: And totally cheesy. They probably made you have to bring farsight to limit you from bringing allied enclaves and having Ovesa your 1 HQ choice, or just having him your warlord since hes so damn tough even by Nid standards for MC.

Fair enough, I guess I was thinking of ETC then since they don't allow Tau/enclave, Eldar/Iyanden and so on.