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Neat looking project for some old west type terrain. Pre-stained and magnetized foam core and balsa wood buildings. Some of the concept pieces look really great. Defiantly worth checking out considering how much terrain you will be getting at the $100 level.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/po-boys-terrain

More info here.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?48834-it-finally-came

Wow, that's a fantastic amount of scenery for that price. I'll be keeping an eye on this, and expect other Malifaux fans will be too.

Yeah....it's a great deal for western terrain and a short turnaround (January expected delivery). If you scroll down the page, for $100 you get 1 of each of the building renders there, which is enough to pack a 3'x3' board (or comfortably fit on a 4'x4' by the look of things.

Very nice buildings. I cut back on my Battlesystems pledge to buy into this one. Next step: find a good gunfighters game in 28mm...

Malifaux is 32mm which is close.

1) Does your username mean hot pants? If so, that's reason enough to back this indiegogo.
2) Looks like some seriously good looking terrain for not a whole lot of scratch
3) Have you given though to creating a 50 dollar pledge amount for those that might want a chance at the riverboat but don't want to drop 100 bucks on this?

 JoshInJapan wrote:
Very nice buildings. I cut back on my Battlesystems pledge to buy into this one. Next step: find a good gunfighters game in 28mm...

As mentioned, they fit Malifaux nicely, but that's far from a classic old west game.

I've heard great things about Blackwater Gulch.
http://www.blackwatergulch.com/

GW historicals used to have a great game in Legends of the Old West, which was basically the LoTR ruleset (highly underrated) combined with the Malifaux campaign rules.

 JoshInJapan wrote:
Very nice buildings. I cut back on my Battlesystems pledge to buy into this one. Next step: find a good gunfighters game in 28mm...

There are aplenty of them around. There's Dead Man's Hand by Great Escape Games which came out pretty recently, among a huge slew of other games, mind. I haven't played it, but it is new and the models are interesting.

While I really like the idea of the campaign, especially as I like to see new, creative ideas and a company looking to bring production in house in the US, the campaign looks a little...suspicious.

The delivery date is reallllly early, and the price is reallllly low, and the grammar and spelling is poor, and this guy seems to have little presence on the internet...and the campain is flex funded. I am concerned that this a bit of wishful thinking, you know. There's no guarantee on these crowdfunding deals, but this campaign gives me pause. Though I suppose for $100 buck is might just be worth it to throw in and see where it goes.

weeble1000 wrote:
The delivery date is reallllly early, and the price is reallllly low, and the grammar and spelling is poor, and this guy seems to have little presence on the internet...and the campain is flex funded. I am concerned that this a bit of wishful thinking, you know. There's no guarantee on these crowdfunding deals, but this campaign gives me pause. Though I suppose for $100 buck is might just be worth it to throw in and see where it goes.

If you look at the Wyrd link above, it's essentially a Malifaux player who made these then decided to expand it to sell it. The price is because he's basically selling at cost, and the materials are cheaper than other old west style buildings.

decker_cky wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:
Very nice buildings. I cut back on my Battlesystems pledge to buy into this one. Next step: find a good gunfighters game in 28mm...

As mentioned, they fit Malifaux nicely, but that's far from a classic old west game.

I've heard great things about Blackwater Gulch.
http://www.blackwatergulch.com/

Blackwater Gulch is okay, to a point. It really depends on what you are looking for in a wild west miniatures game. It is a well-plowed field with games dating back decades and new ones coming out all of the time.

BWG is fast and simple, but it lacks a bit in specific character and does not have a great deal of depth. It is okay for throwing down a few miniatures and having a shootout, but if you are looking to do a lot of wild west gaming, BWG comes up a little short. The rules do not lend themselves very well to campaign play, and they are cinematic in the sense of being broad and loose, rather than aiming for a specifically cinematic feel, if you know what I mean.

There are plenty of free games too, BWG being one of them, so the great thing about wild west miniature gaming is that you can put together a collection of models and terrain and always find new uses for it. In this regard, this campaign looks really inviting, because the guy is right, laser cut plywood or MDF terrain is pricey if you are trying to fill a table. You are looking at prices in the range of 30-50 dollars per piece.

Western terrain is relatively easy to make, if you have the time to do it, but a cheap decent-looking terrain option is always welcome in my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

decker_cky wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:
The delivery date is reallllly early, and the price is reallllly low, and the grammar and spelling is poor, and this guy seems to have little presence on the internet...and the campain is flex funded. I am concerned that this a bit of wishful thinking, you know. There's no guarantee on these crowdfunding deals, but this campaign gives me pause. Though I suppose for $100 buck is might just be worth it to throw in and see where it goes.

If you look at the Wyrd link above, it's essentially a Malifaux player who made these then decided to expand it to sell it. The price is because he's basically selling at cost, and the materials are cheaper than other old west style buildings.

That's exactly my concern. It looks like someone who has an interesting idea and is pushing ahead with it really fast. My concern is that the pace may be too fast, you know, which is why I have concerns about the quality of the writing on the campaign page. It is indicative of of a certain lack of detail-oriented thinking, no offense to the OP intended.

I don't mind that Tre Manor of RBG tends to type sloppy, for example, because he is an artist and I appreciate his art. The quality of his art expresses his care and investment in the product, and he has been able to maintain a functional business that he has grown slowly over time. This campaign is an idea to do something A) different and B) on the cheap. A lack of forethought could be rather detrimental to its success.

That *is* cheap, and you get a lot for what you pledge.

I've got a lot of the same reservations that you guys have brought up.

I might put in for 35. A few buildings to spruce up my little town of Brimstone would be nice, what with all the cowboys and monsters that are going to be populating it.

If there was a 50usd level, and my girlfriend would let me, I would jump in. I do need terrain for BWG, and I would LOVE a paddleboat....

sparkywtf wrote:
If there was a 50usd level, and my girlfriend would let me, I would jump in. I do need terrain for BWG, and I would LOVE a paddleboat....

You could get the $35 starter set, then add $15 in whatever else catches your eye. I don't think there's much hope of reaching $50,000, so is there even an advantage of pledging at $50 or above?

Colour me intrigued, not only is his stuff a great deal, the shipping is amazing as well.

decker_cky wrote:

sparkywtf wrote:
If there was a 50usd level, and my girlfriend would let me, I would jump in. I do need terrain for BWG, and I would LOVE a paddleboat....

You could get the $35 starter set, then add $15 in whatever else catches your eye. I don't think there's much hope of reaching $50,000, so is there even an advantage of pledging at $50 or above?

You make a great point on that. I just really want a boat! (it fits in nicely with one of the gangs for BWG).

I've backed this, looks like a great project. Simple but exceptionally cheap and most importantly for me easy to modify and add detailing.

 JoshInJapan wrote:
Very nice buildings. I cut back on my Battlesystems pledge to buy into this one. Next step: find a good gunfighters game in 28mm...

BlackWater Gulch. I could not recommend it more. The rules are easy and make sense. Plus, they're a free download.
They have decent minis, too. If you're really REALLY picky, though, you could always look at Black Scorpion minis, though.

Personally, I think the Black Scorpion minis are nice, but there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with the BWG models.

Also, BWG has it's own forum here on Dakka. You should check it out.


BWG is the only game I've been able to get my hard core 40K gaming friends to try (outside of 40K, obviously). All but one like it. The one hold out? He's just a kind of "40K ONLY" guy.

Eric

The caveat with Black Scorpion minis is that they're huge compared to other Old West minis. Beautiful minis though. I think they'd be a similar size to Wild West Exodus.

weeble1000 wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:
Very nice buildings. I cut back on my Battlesystems pledge to buy into this one. Next step: find a good gunfighters game in 28mm...

There are aplenty of them around. There's Dead Man's Hand by Great Escape Games which came out pretty recently, among a huge slew of other games, mind. I haven't played it, but it is new and the models are interesting.

While I really like the idea of the campaign, especially as I like to see new, creative ideas and a company looking to bring production in house in the US, the campaign looks a little...suspicious.

The delivery date is reallllly early, and the price is reallllly low, and the grammar and spelling is poor, and this guy seems to have little presence on the internet...and the campain is flex funded. I am concerned that this a bit of wishful thinking, you know. There's no guarantee on these crowdfunding deals, but this campaign gives me pause. Though I suppose for $100 buck is might just be worth it to throw in and see where it goes.

I've also heard very good things about Dead Man's Hand, but alas, it's hard enough getting friends together for warmachine so I've never tried it either :(

I used to play Warhammer Historicals: Legends of the Old West, which was absolutely fantastic and I highly recomend it. Used a modified version of GW's LotR combined with a campaign system straight out of mordheim, which just worked exceedingly well for playing out old spaghetti westerns! But with WHH gone the books go for stupid amounts on ebay. It's pretty easy to find the pdfs online, but I'm not sure how legal they are. I know all the specialist games were available for free download, I don't know about warhammer historicals.

As for the terrain, it hits the "too good to be true" warning buzzer in my head. Not in the "this guy isn't legit" sense, but rather that he hasn't taken all the actual costs into account. Some of those buildings are $2.50 and $3.75 it seams that doesn't even cover the cost of materials. He says he's dealing in large bulk, so the materials may just be super super cheap, but I can't imagine it covering production and shipping costs. I hope it's all on the level and it does well and he does well (I'm ALL for entrepreneurs and making a living doing what you love and wish him the best) but coupled with my general distaste for IGG itself, there's no way I could put money towards it. Looking forward to seeing it released retail, if it ever is.

Blackwater Gulch is 28mm.

Malifaux and Black Scorpion and Dystopian Legions are all 32mm.

Wild West Exodus is 35mm.

---

From the looks of it, the 32mm Malifaux Models on the base just reach the top of the doorway. If you excuse the base, 32mm seems like it'd fit decently well.

28mm Blackwater Gulch seems like it would fit ideally.

35mm Wild West Exodus would be awkwardly out-of-scale.

Greetings,

First I would like to thank picantes pantelones and other supporters for spreading the word. You guys are great.

I do not blame anyone for feeling hesitant to get behind a unknown venture. After all, we are talking about parting with hard earned money.

It is probably shooting myself in the foot, as a businessman should always remain professional when dealing with customers or potential customers, but I have decided to respond to some comments on a personal level.

You are right, my grammar skills bite. I have struggled with that my entire life. Just like some can never wrap their head around higher end math; formal English has eluded my grasp while numbers dance for me. From a professional viewpoint I should of accepted my limitation on the subject and hired someone to write my pitch for me. I considered doing such and the idea of charging more to the contributors to pay for that seemed to go against the very thing I set out to do; make it so almost any gamer could afford a table of terrain.

My pricing is cheap, that was always the point. If we do not hit the funding goal so that I can get a quantity discount from the cutting/engraving company, I will not see a profit worth mentioning after manufacturing and shipping because the prices I am offering are very close to the line. I knew that from the start and accepted it. I am taking a different view; my thinking is on earning reputation for delivering what I promise and exposure to my product. To me that is worth more in the long run than profits are today. When I am at the point of launching my second line of terrain; I will no longer be an unknown and can go big. Luckily, my military pension allows me to still feed the family while taking a long view.

Was the project rushed? Yes to a degree. I should of spent more time getting my pitch "snazzy" looking and building hype. My motivation for speed was based on the delivery dates. The 3rdparty manufacturer has a slot open between projects and I wanted to secure that slot. I have participated in one cloud funding project as a "contributor," and while it was reputable miniature company, I will be waiting nearly a year to see my perks. I did not want to do that to my contributors.

As for the suggestion of a 50$ perk, I will put some thought into a suitable package. My hesitation to do such is based on not wanting anyone that "bought in" at the 100$ level with hopes of the stretch goal feeling ripped. I have had a few requests to offer the bonus goals rewards as purchasable if it becomes clear the goals will not be met. I would love to do that but feel the same hesitation asking people more money for something they pledged in hopes of getting for free.

Well, this post went longer then I first expected. Once again I apologize for speaking from a personal level. The thing is, even if I am able to break into and become a known player in the industry; that is the type of business I will run. I will never have the big glitzy website or be too busy to communicate with my customers except in press releases and occasional tweets. I am a gamer building for gamers. I will always remain where I belong; down in the trenches, flipping cards and cheating fate right next to my customers.

decker_cky wrote:
The caveat with Black Scorpion minis is that they're huge compared to other Old West minis. Beautiful minis though. I think they'd be a similar size to Wild West Exodus.

I play with Black Scorpion, Artizan, Reaper, and Knuckleduster (my favorite) miniatures on the same table. These miniatures run a small gamut of scale from leaning into 25mm true scale from Knuckleduster (he also sculpts historical miniatures), to bog standard 28mm heroic scale for Artizan, to Black Scorpion which is more like 30mm, but with more realistic proportions. Side by side, the miniatures from these four companies look rather different in size, but once you are playing on the table they look just fine together, and I am pretty finicky about scale too.

They are definitely not the same scale, but they look fine, and Black Scorpion miniatures will look pretty close to large models like BWG, which are on the big end of 28mm. Black Scorpion is a great company, and I recommend ordering direct. You can get free shipping on a large order, and his prices actually beat many of the US distributors that carry his work. Casting quality is very nice, with little flash and few mistakes. I have about 50 Black Scorpion models and they are almost all perfect.

That said, I adore Knuckleduster. Forrest Harris (the sculptor) is a very nice guy and his 28mm wild west miniatures are lively, characterful, and very inexpensive, running little more than a dollar fifty per model! (seriously) Like I said, they are on the smaller side of the "scale" we call 28mm, but Forrest has it where it counts when it comes to wild west miniatures, but then it all depends on what you are looking for. I prefer a liberal salting of realism with a cinematic flair. I encourage you to buy a set of Knuckleduster miniatures just to look at them in person. It'll set you back 10 bucks, but his models look much better in person than they do on the website, and they paint up very nicely.

As for BWG, it depends on what you want in a wild west game. BWG is much more like a skirmish wargame that has been slathered in a mix of pop culture and western tropes. It is fun to play, pretty easy, and quick, but in my opinion it lacks a specific wild west character, and I was enamored of BWG when it first came out. The game I run now actually started out as a set of BWG house rules, but after fixing fundamental problems with the rules, filling massive gaps, adding new material, and adapting the rules to meet the needs of my game and setting, there really isn't any BWG left. If all you want to do is throw down some western buildings and have a couple of western-ish gangs kill each other for 90 min, BWG is fantastic!

PB Terrain wrote:

Spoiler:

Greetings,

First I would like to thank picantes pantelones and other supporters for spreading the word. You guys are great.

I do not blame anyone for feeling hesitant to get behind a unknown venture. After all, we are talking about parting with hard earned money.

It is probably shooting myself in the foot, as a businessman should always remain professional when dealing with customers or potential customers, but I have decided to respond to some comments on a personal level.

You are right, my grammar skills bite. I have struggled with that my entire life. Just like some can never wrap their head around higher end math; formal English has eluded my grasp while numbers dance for me. From a professional viewpoint I should of accepted my limitation on the subject and hired someone to write my pitch for me. I considered doing such and the idea of charging more to the contributors to pay for that seemed to go against the very thing I set out to do; make it so almost any gamer could afford a table of terrain.

My pricing is cheap, that was always the point. If we do not hit the funding goal so that I can get a quantity discount from the cutting/engraving company, I will not see a profit worth mentioning after manufacturing and shipping because the prices I am offering are very close to the line. I knew that from the start and accepted it. I am taking a different view; my thinking is on earning reputation for delivering what I promise and exposure to my product. To me that is worth more in the long run than profits are today. When I am at the point of launching my second line of terrain; I will no longer be an unknown and can go big. Luckily, my military pension allows me to still feed the family while taking a long view.

Was the project rushed? Yes to a degree. I should of spent more time getting my pitch "snazzy" looking and building hype. My motivation for speed was based on the delivery dates. The 3rdparty manufacturer has a slot open between projects and I wanted to secure that slot. I have participated in one cloud funding project as a "contributor," and while it was reputable miniature company, I will be waiting nearly a year to see my perks. I did not want to do that to my contributors.

As for the suggestion of a 50$ perk, I will put some thought into a suitable package. My hesitation to do such is based on not wanting anyone that "bought in" at the 100$ level with hopes of the stretch goal feeling ripped. I have had a few requests to offer the bonus goals rewards as purchasable if it becomes clear the goals will not be met. I would love to do that but feel the same hesitation asking people more money for something they pledged in hopes of getting for free.

Well, this post went longer then I first expected. Once again I apologize for speaking from a personal level. The thing is, even if I am able to break into and become a known player in the industry; that is the type of business I will run. I will never have the big glitzy website or be too busy to communicate with my customers except in press releases and occasional tweets. I am a gamer building for gamers. I will always remain where I belong; down in the trenches, flipping cards and cheating fate right next to my customers.

Actually, I'd say your response is AOK as a professional response. Nothing wrong with showing a bit of yourself or some love for the product. The mistake some project 'creators' make is that they start attacking critics on a more personal level, which I don't see you doing anywhere. Keep this up and you'll be fine.

As to pricing etc. I share Weeble's concerns. I would strongly consider pledging here were it not for some apprehension as to the feasibility of actually delivering at this price point.
If you have it worked out, might I suggest you expound on this a little more? I understand there's potentially some sensitive information there, competition-wise, so feel free to keep a bit to yourself, but I'd argue that since you'll have a significant time-to-market advantage over your competition by now anyway that point is pretty much moot (and anyway, I don't want to be overly blunt here but if one business can figure it out, so can the next, generally speaking), so you're probably safe giving quite a few details. Your choice though, in the end.


And FWIW, from the wyrd forum thread it seems this guy isn't some 'unknown' factor in the community, he has some history so at worst it's overly optimistic, not anything scammy or somesuch.

 Absolutionis wrote:


35mm Wild West Exodus would be awkwardly out-of-scale.

That's a bummer, as that's what I'd use this terrain for...

not having a lot of experience with Indigogo.. I do know that if the funding is not reached, then the project might not get made and money might be lost.

Is that the case in this one?

If I pledge 35 bucks, and you don't reach 10k, what happens then, If I can ask PB Terrain?

-Porkuslime

Not the creator, just quoting from the FAQ:

 porkuslime wrote:
not having a lot of experience with Indigogo.. I do know that if the funding is not reached, then the project might not get made and money might be lost.

Is that the case in this one?

If I pledge 35 bucks, and you don't reach 10k, what happens then, If I can ask PB Terrain?

-Porkuslime

It is in the FAQ at the bottom of the project page

What happens if initial funding goal is not met?

Materials for Wave 1 perks has already been secured. The contributors price will cover manufacturing and shipping of the perks nearly exact; I will not see a profit till full funding has been reached (when quantity discount for manufacturing kicks in.)

In the worse case scenario, and funding goal not reach, perks can still be prepared and monetarily I will break even. Contributors receive perks, I earn reputation and my product gets exposure. As an old school Marine; word means more than money, so I still call this a win/win scenario. That being said... join in people!! I can not wait to see screen shots of the paddle boat being used in games to start appearing across the web! That can only happen with your support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:


35mm Wild West Exodus would be awkwardly out-of-scale.

That's a bummer, as that's what I'd use this terrain for...

It is scaled for Malifaux, so I figure it is probably a better bet for WWX than most western terrain currently available. I'm going to be converting my set, so I'll just add larger doors/windows if the scale is an issue.

http://www.wildwestexodusforum.com/download/file.php?id=6

Yeah....WWX might look funny. It's a head taller than even Malifaux.

decker_cky wrote:
http://www.wildwestexodusforum.com/download/file.php?id=6

Yeah....WWX might look funny. It's a head taller than even Malifaux.

Argh!

I was hoping after seeing this:



that it would be 'close enough' to be passable...

Thanks for the response PB Terrain. I agree with Bolognesus that your response is perfectly professional. I apologize for the dig on the grammar. It only mattered to me in the context of having little else to go on.

It seems that securing production slots has been a driver of several crowdfunding campaigns this year. Manufacturing has become pretty tight as the hobby expands, though I expect PB Terrain is not using the same manufacturers as other wargaming companies, but who knows.

In any case, I heartily support PB Terrain's goal of bringing production in house in the US. That's a big plus from my perspective, as I A) think democratizing production in our industry is a very good thing and B) prefer to buy products made in the good ol' US of A.

I will post up some side by side comparison pics of Artizan, Black Scorpion, and Knuckleduster miniatures when I get home tonight, and maybe I'll throw a Malifaux model in there for good measure.

I think y'all will find that although the size difference may seem shocking at first, once you put the models down on the table they mesh pretty suitably. I've never been able to find one company that I liked that has a robust enough range to carry everything I want when it comes to wild west models, so I got over my reticence to mix models pretty quickly.

I do wish Black Scorpion miniatures were a tad smaller, but what are you gonna do?