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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 13:44:05
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I love these models but I just havent found a good use for these guys. Expensive points wise and they die too easily. Cant ever make it into close combat except on rare occasions. Anyone know a good way to use them or are they just one of those new units that arent so good?
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Nightlords 2,750 Points
Tzeentch Daemons 2250 Points
Nurgle Daemons 1750 Points
Death Guard 2250 Points
Thousand Sons 1750 Points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 13:49:47
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
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Hrm....I mean, I think if i ran them, i'd DS them near a powerful shooting unit, and hope to blind it, and then run into cover, and try and assault next turn.
They are pretty much confirmed to be too expensive however.
But if you run demon allies, I think they have the demon USR...so they can benefit from the Grimorie of True Names giving them a...3++ invuln when they land?
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Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
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Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 15:29:08
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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They work as allies for daemons yeah. Give them a tzeentch mark and the grimoire turns them into 2+ invulns. You can also pinpoint deepstrike them off of daemon icons that way to take advantage of the blind rule without mishapping into the enemy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 15:49:55
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
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The problem with warp talons is the lack of grenades. On paper they are fine units. Even with no mark they are a fast marine with an invul save and lightning claws. To anything not t6 or above or has a 2+ armor this is nasty.
However, they are an offense is the best defense kind of unit wherein they need to be striking first to eliminate potential attacks back. Without grenades, and the prevalence of cover and terrain in 6th, that becomes very, very hard.
So you can run them, you just have to be very careful with where you point them at.
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01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 16:03:55
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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I'd hop them behind cover and use them to assassinate something, but DP's do that better...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 16:21:07
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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Put them in a dreadclaw pod, the pod has Frag launchers just like Crusaders LR.
Or Give them the MoK and take a Skullcannon with Deamons allies.
But this could be argued that though they are deamons with the MoK, they don't count has Deamons of korne...
Else onl use them against units that thougt they can attack before you, they won't make significant damages, like Devs etc
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 16:55:32
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Gavin Thorpe
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Regarding the Mark of Tzeentch plus Grimoire, this is an ongoing debate that people apparently feel very strongly over. Do not slap on the MoT and expect everything to go down fine.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/560960.page
Regarding the Grimoire, while it is true that it helps, the very existence of the Grimoire means that you have Daemon allies. In which case, that Grimoire is going to be far more relevant when applied to the Flesh Hounds, Seekers or Soulgrinder that you are also entitled to. Don't waste the Grimoire to make a mediocre unit usable, use it to amplify an already-useful unit into something epic.
As it is, Talons are extremely expensive with negligible gains to survivability, and all of that cost dumped into situationally-useful abilities. There is a reason that they are unpopular.
- Marks of Khorne or Slaanesh are probably your best bet. Talons excel at murdering Marines which Slaanesh obviously helps, but is thoroughly wasted if your opponent is in cover since you have no grenades. Khorne is generally useful and while Slaanesh is situationally better, Khorne is always appropriate. Nurgle looks nice but probably won't stop the opponent killing you because the unit represents such a large expenditure on fragile bodies that he can afford to dedicate significant effort to killing them, regardless of Toughness. Similarly the Mark of Tzeentch doesn't help against the low-quality firepower that works so well to kill them, while the Grimoire trick is heavily disputed and may not be legal.
- Blind is a trick. You are spending huge amounts of points on a unit with no accuracy on landing, tiny range and an effect that is ignored more often than not. The best application is obviously to land in a dense gunline but no scatter mitigation often makes this a death sentence due to Mishaps. Even if you land on target, the range is so pathetic as to make catching multiple units extremely rare. Finally, Blind isn't that great of a rule. Anything Marine or Eldar generally have the stats to pass it. The shooty Tau units are immune to Blind. Orks still operate at BS1 just fine. It hurts Necrons on foot, and occasionally might make a Tactical Squad uncomfortable. In exchange, you've just fed 160+pts to a gunline within Rapid Fire range and no resilience to light arms.
Keep them under 200pts and either Slaanesh or Khorne. Deploy them normally and advance cautiously. If your opponent walks a unit of 3+ Infantry out of cover, go for it because it's the one chance they have to make a difference.
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WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 17:11:19
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Apart for the Tzeentch + Grimoire rule, another alternative could be Mark of Khorn, Icon of Wrath, the 4++ power from divination and the grimoire.
However this requires Fateweaver and at least a couple of Lv 3 heralds rolling on divination to get decent chances of working.
A cheaper, yet less durable way, is just to try and hide them out of los the first turn, then move 12" and try to charge in the second turn.
However they are probably the worst alternative in the Fast slot
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 17:17:09
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Gavin Thorpe
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Actually I've just thought of a rather more fundamental problem with the unit:
They are Raptors who pay an exorbitant amount of points for Shred, AP3 and an Invul save. They have a single application and that is to kill Marines who have abandoned cover. In every other situation they are wasted, it is only against this very specific target that they excel.
Can we think of any other CSM units, located in the Fast Attack slot and at a very similar cost, that *also* excels at killing Marines?
One that kills Marines even better than the Talons ideal situation, while also being perfectly valid against people in cover, horde units, high-Init units or MCs? One that is much tougher, much faster and available in nearly every situation that you could take Warp Talons?
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WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 17:37:51
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Warp Talons probably shouldn't be deep striked against most enemies. They should be escorted to the front behind rhinos or land raiders. that's my opinion.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 18:07:10
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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Mozzamanx wrote:Actually I've just thought of a rather more fundamental problem with the unit:
They are Raptors who pay an exorbitant amount of points for Shred, AP3 and an Invul save. They have a single application and that is to kill Marines who have abandoned cover. In every other situation they are wasted, it is only against this very specific target that they excel.
Can we think of any other CSM units, located in the Fast Attack slot and at a very similar cost, that *also* excels at killing Marines?
One that kills Marines even better than the Talons ideal situation, while also being perfectly valid against people in cover, horde units, high- Init units or MCs? One that is much tougher, much faster and available in nearly every situation that you could take Warp Talons?
Can I guess that it isn't the raptors or the spawn?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 18:12:03
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Imo the most effective use of warp talons is saving your $$ and turning and buying a heldrake.
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Keeper of the DomBox
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 19:26:30
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Kirasu wrote:Imo the most effective use of warp talons is saving your $$ and turning and buying a heldrake.
Pretty much what ive done. I have a few models that ive gotten in trades and they look amazing but i guess theyll just fill up a spot in the foam until i need to fill up 300+ points for some random reason.
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Nightlords 2,750 Points
Tzeentch Daemons 2250 Points
Nurgle Daemons 1750 Points
Death Guard 2250 Points
Thousand Sons 1750 Points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/22 19:45:53
Subject: Is there an effective way to use Warp Talons?
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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zteknon wrote:I love these models but I just havent found a good use for these guys. ?
That the effective way to use them. Love the models. Use them in friendly non-competitive games.
Don't expect them to be wonderful in the game.
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