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Hey, So I believe I need to replace the rubber o-ring and potentially the threaded needle seal part of my Iwata HP-CS. I was hoping one of the many experienced air brush artists could advise of how to remove the old part and anything special to keep in mind while performing the repair.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Dont remove the needle seal unless you have the alignment tool for it. The airbrush will never be the same again if you misalign it and dont have the tool required to put it right

Ya, why do you feel you need to do that? I have had my Iwata for 7 years now and they are still fine.

The o ring has begun to deteriorate and part of it started coming through into the paint reservoir. I don't know how it happened, I haven't used anything in it that wasn't specifically designed for an airbrush. It isn't that old, maybe a little over a year.

Ulterior wrote:
The o ring has begun to deteriorate and part of it started coming through into the paint reservoir. I don't know how it happened, I haven't used anything in it that wasn't specifically designed for an airbrush. It isn't that old, maybe a little over a year.

That sounds impossible. Looking at the Iwata diagram there are only 2 o-rings on the brush. The fist is at the base of the main lever, which helps create a seal so there are no air leaks. The second o-ring is behind the nozzle cap that houses the brass nozzle. Neither of the rings are in the area of the paint reservoir. There is a 3 o-ring toward the back of the Iwata, but that one serves more as a buffer as to not over tighten the rear handle.

Is it possible that you have some build up paint that is pushing through that looks like an o-ring? How is the brush operationally, can you take a photo? I just really dont see how this could be an o-ring issue.

A.

Maybe take as good a pic as possible, and point (arrow on the pic, circle, point with a pencil in the pic, etc.) out the area you are talking about, that might help.

Definitely need some pics. I used to give my Iwata's really rough treatment when I was doing movie work and it would take a lot to make the o-rings go.

 Dullspork wrote:
Definitely need some pics. I used to give my Iwata's really rough treatment when I was doing movie work and it would take a lot to make the o-rings go.

Not just that, but there are no o-rings in the vicinity of the paint cup?!? There is a Teflon coated opening that the needle slides through, but if that is damaged, there is no replacing it, you will need a new brush, and that should be a brush replaced by Iwata, because that would definitely be a quality issue.

Mostly though, I think you have some paint build up behind the paint well near the main lever (this happens when the AB nozzle is tilted upward and the paint flows back behind the needle into the trigger area) Then as you have worked your needle back and forth some of that build up has pushed through.

A.

I'll post a picture of the offending part of rubber sticking out once I get home.

In the meantime I've been able to determine what I think the part is; http://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Eclipse-HP-CS-PTFE-Needle-Seal-Set.html

with http://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Eclipse-HP-CS-Needle-Seal.html being the O-ring I believe has deteriorated.

The part is located within the airbrush body itself and not displayed on the exploded diagram of the brush on Iwata's website.

It is definately not paint, a part of it broke off and it was a rubber similar to the other two o-rings.

I haven't used any paint through it yet as I was concerned about the parts getting clogged up with any paint that would find it's way up into the rest of the body.

Ulterior wrote:
I'll post a picture of the offending part of rubber sticking out once I get home.

In the meantime I've been able to determine what I think the part is; http://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Eclipse-HP-CS-PTFE-Needle-Seal-Set.html

with http://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Eclipse-HP-CS-Needle-Seal.html being the O-ring I believe has deteriorated.

The part is located within the airbrush body itself and not displayed on the exploded diagram of the brush on Iwata's website.

It is definately not paint, a part of it broke off and it was a rubber similar to the other two o-rings.

I haven't used any paint through it yet as I was concerned about the parts getting clogged up with any paint that would find it's way up into the rest of the body.

I do not have that part in my Iwata, strange, maybe it is a part that was added with a newer version, as I said, mine is a bit old. Have been using airbrush lube on your needle and trigger?

Only recently have I started using the oil that came with the brush to lubricate the needle. I've been putting a small drop into the trigger mechanism but no other places.

If the O-Ring has already deteriorated, and you aren't using any solvents in your airbrush, then I would contact the manufacturer directly and explain your issues. My guess, if this is true, is that the part(s) may have been bad to begin with.

I never had an o-ring go bad unless I was using a lot of acetone or lacquer thinner (which I used to do quote a bit).

my guess is that you bought a chinese piece of junk. i heard Iwatas are often counterfeit.

kb305 wrote:
my guess is that you bought a chinese piece of junk. i heard Iwatas are often counterfeit.

Iwata is one of the most cloned airbrushes but I've never seen a Chinese clone that had the proper markings. Generally they are totally blank or have some random name on the site. If it's an Iwata clone it should have the same parts as a real Iwata but just lower quality control. A totally abnormal part indicates some original design work and not a straight clone.

 LUTNIT wrote:

kb305 wrote:
my guess is that you bought a chinese piece of junk. i heard Iwatas are often counterfeit.

Iwata is one of the most cloned airbrushes but I've never seen a Chinese clone that had the proper markings. Generally they are totally blank or have some random name on the site. If it's an Iwata clone it should have the same parts as a real Iwata but just lower quality control. A totally abnormal part indicates some original design work and not a straight clone.

not true. they will add o rings wherever they need to to make up for bad engineering.

will not have the same parts at all. real iwata parts may not fit a clone. source:

http://airbrushes.com/beware.php

Huh, didn't realize that but it does make sense. I knew real Iwata parts didn't always fit but I never thought about adding random o-rings to account for poor tolerances.

I very much doubt it is a clone as ordered it over the phone with an Iwata rep.

Pictures are coming soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, so here are two pictures. I was surprised by how much they can both be zoomed in on.

Thoughts?






And this is an exposed diagram from Iwata's catalogue. I don't believe it's the HP-CS but it does show the part I believe is the culprit, circled in green.

hmmm....

The pics help, but in the top pic, that looks more like dried metallic paint stuck in there (I have a lot of problems cleaning metallics out of my brush as well).

I would see about contacting iwata, and asking them if you can send it back for them to work on it.

I know that badger has a free replacement (factory only) for a similr part on their brushes.

I think it looks like dried paint too. Have you confirmed that the part actually exists in your brush, if you break it down and look inside can you see the part? If so remove it and see what condition it is in.

Like I said though my Iwata does not have that part in it.

It seems like you should be able to remove the part with a very small screw driver.

Don't let the glare of the flash fool you, it isn't metallic paint as I've never put any through my brush.

I'm going to try taking it a part now as suggested. The Iwata rep is apparently on vacation until the 3rd so I'll know for sure once I speak with him.

I'll post the results of the dissection.

Ok, so I removed the needle seal as pictured in the link previously listed. No O-ring came out, nor was there one still in the body of the airbrush. This leads me to believe that the needle seal, having not been screwed in the entire way (only supposed to be screwed in slightly) created a small cavity where paint and such have accumulated.

Now over the past year I have been basing a very large quantity of models with Vallejo's polyeurathane primer. I still need to confirm with Iwata that there isn't supposed to be any O-ring between the needle seal and the paint cup. If that turns out to be correct then what I was seeing was a very thick build up of the primer, and with it being polyeurathane it was giving the impression of a rubber material.

I have since put my brush back together and put some paint through it with nothing visibly wrong. I have yet to attempt some finer detail work but will hopefully try that tonight.

Thanks everyone who have thus far contributed to this thread. I'll post any updates I get from Iwata.

Since this thread is relevant enough, what type of spray guns or air brushes would you recommend that can prime guardsmen in batches and also vehicles? I'm not looking for anything extraordinary, just something that gets an even coat on my models.

I started with a Masters G22 airbrush and it worked very well for the price. It would be very suitable for what you want to do with it plus a little more.

This is the airbrush/compressor kit that I started with: http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdepot/abdkitG22.aspx

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/ is a site that has a review of a lot of different airbrushes for varying applications, and is a resource of knowledge for the beginning air brusher.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Since this thread is relevant enough, what type of spray guns or air brushes would you recommend that can prime guardsmen in batches and also vehicles? I'm not looking for anything extraordinary, just something that gets an even coat on my models.

There are LITERALLY dozens and dozens of threads on this topic - so to really make sure you get value out of the many posts people have made - I would do a search on "airbrush" "buy and airbrush" or other threads - so we dong hijack this one.

If you don't want to do that, just get a basic "airbrush kit and compressor" you can find tons of them.

If you want something more detailed - get any dual action internal mix gravity fed airbrush.

if you want to know what that means, check out the other threads.

best of luck!

Ulterior wrote:
Ok, so I removed the needle seal as pictured in the link previously listed. No O-ring came out, nor was there one still in the body of the airbrush. This leads me to believe that the needle seal, having not been screwed in the entire way (only supposed to be screwed in slightly) created a small cavity where paint and such have accumulated.

Now over the past year I have been basing a very large quantity of models with Vallejo's polyeurathane primer. I still need to confirm with Iwata that there isn't supposed to be any O-ring between the needle seal and the paint cup. If that turns out to be correct then what I was seeing was a very thick build up of the primer, and with it being polyeurathane it was giving the impression of a rubber material.

I have since put my brush back together and put some paint through it with nothing visibly wrong. I have yet to attempt some finer detail work but will hopefully try that tonight.

Thanks everyone who have thus far contributed to this thread. I'll post any updates I get from Iwata.

Vallejos Polyurethane primers(while amazing) are notorious for drying into a gummy mess inside fittings for airbrushes. My advice is to increase how often you flush the airbrush during priming sessions. I generally do a decent fush after each 1/3 full paint cup.

Luckily the primer doesn't break apart from itself easily, so if you need to go in with a needle to clean it, it scrapes out pretty easily.

For your Oring on the nozzle, I recommend slathering some KY jelly on it to prevent it from drying out, thus increasing it's life.