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OK, so I was watching a battle report today on youtube.
This chap had obviously put a LOT of time and effort into it as well as the classic hobby etiquettes ie painting, modelling, list writing, terrain, fluff etc
Anyway, this got me thinking.....
Somehow something must be lacking in the standard wargaming experience for him to want to make and dedicate time to making such a thing?
Perhaps it's due to the fact that he would open up his experience to a wider audience, perhaps he was showing off, perhaps no one he knows cares much about wargaming or
perhaps creating a video like this squeezes some kind of added value from the hobby?
From experience I know that this hobby (and many others) can be an 'insular' experience with a lot of my enjoyment happening during a game or within a painting session.
In my experience these tend to be quite personal and short lived goals.

I've made battle reports before and I enjoy them but I was just wondering what other people's take on them were and why they did them? Please let me know.

If battle reports aren't your thing then what is it that makes you want to supplement your hobby with internet sites, forums and videos?
I've never felt the need to document/blog/video/forum post etc any of my other hobbies but somehow with this one it just feels right.

40k isn't solitaire, so sharing is a vital part of the experience. It takes two to tango, err, forge a narrative.

I don't think wanting to branch out and spread your experiences, observations, etc. is indicative of some kind of deficiency. I think, to some extent, people do seek validation based of the extent to which they care about the stigma of being a war gamer. You seek the comfort of being in the company of those that "get it".

Maybe he just wanted to share?

Maybe he wanted to do something different?

Maybe he wanted to show his passion?

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Somehow something must be lacking in the standard wargaming experience for him to want to make and dedicate time to making such a thing?

It couldn't just be that he likes making videos?

Sure, that makes sense, people video their families/pets etc all the time but that tends to be for personal use and prosperity.
Why would you want to then 'broadcast' it?
Edit: and what is it about this hobby in particular that make people want to do so?

Because people like to share the things they enjoy.

It's the same reason there's all these people on Facebook telling the world what they had for breakfast.

I missed breakfast today. :(
Only a few more hours to go until I can double up!
Greasy café here I come!

Wow, if people didn't share their painted and converted models, we wouldn't have shared techniques, and people wouldn't learn how to do this stuff.

I think promoting online aspects like images, conversions, battle reports allow them to share wargaming with an online social group in addition to their local friends. More the merrier.

I don't understand the reasoning behind making or reading a battle report, personally. I have no desire to do it, and with no common ground, the PoV is not something I CAN understand.

If I played in it, then my memories of it should be adequate for me - and if I didn't, then there's no emotional investment in the game for me to care about anyway (not that I put that much emotional investment into gaming, anyway).

I'm not one to make videos, though I won't lie, I've thought about it, too much work though and I hate how I sound in recordings. But I will say I love sharing a good story of a game amongst friends or on forums (boot camp has a batrep subforum), especially when cool stuff happens. I'll rarely go into turn-by-turn-every-little-detail reports. As for sharing painting and modelling techniques, I've learned alot from videos on youtube regarding painting and plenty of techniques for modelling on the forums. Videos are just another aspect of the hobby people enjoy that others don't necessarily. Like painting, I still hate painting and probably won't ever like the act but that won't stop me from sharing my experiences on dakka or any other forum, or from sharing the results.

nkelsch wrote:
Wow, if people didn't share their painted and converted models, we wouldn't have shared techniques, and people wouldn't learn how to do this stuff.

I think promoting online aspects like images, conversions, battle reports allow them to share wargaming with an online social group in addition to their local friends. More the merrier.

Agreed.

I'm not entirely sure on what your point is, OP. People in all hobbies make videos that they share on the internet. Do some YouTube searching and you'll find videos for fishing, car modding, knitting, paper crafting, RC stuff, fireworks, biking, workouts and the list will go on. Are all those hobbies lacking too? Or do people just like to share and get comments from like-minded people?

 fishy bob wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Wow, if people didn't share their painted and converted models, we wouldn't have shared techniques, and people wouldn't learn how to do this stuff.

I think promoting online aspects like images, conversions, battle reports allow them to share wargaming with an online social group in addition to their local friends. More the merrier.

Agreed.

I'm not entirely sure on what your point is, OP. People in all hobbies make videos that they share on the internet. Do some YouTube searching and you'll find videos for fishing, car modding, knitting, paper crafting, RC stuff, fireworks, biking, workouts and the list will go on. Are all those hobbies lacking too? Or do people just like to share and get comments from like-minded people?

Yeah, also for me, what's your beef OP? there may be a pletora of reasons why the guy does it.
Same when i watch these BF4 and COD ghost yay-tubes, the guy just likes making them

Yes.

I really enjoy the hobby, so it's doing its job.

People share all sorts online that is in now way particular to this hobby. Judging by the fact you are on this forum you probably have some kind of interest in wargaming, thus you are far more likely to come across videos related to wargaming that someone who is interested in fishing for example.

People often share kills and videos of video games they are playing. Its not that the hobby is some how lacking for the person sharing their videos but just that for whatever reason they want to share it with others. There are loads of factors for wanting to do this I wont bother going into but I don't think it too much different from posting something on a forum. its just the video takes more work.

Well I'm the sort who will never play at a game shop or go to a tourney because I hate people so for me wargaming is a very secular thing. Probably more to do with my being a sociopath rather than anything else, so if I didn't engage in some form of social activity then it wouldn't be much of a hobby for me. I show my mini's to my GF, and the four guys I game with. And now you guys too!

You'll be my friends right? creepcreepcreep

As long as you promise not to kill us all and use our blood to paint your miniatures then yet.

 carlos13th wrote:
As long as you promise not to kill us all and use our blood to paint your miniatures then yet.

Well if it was done in a friendly manner, and with a gentle touche and a soft apporach I would not mind

fishy bob wrote:I'm not entirely sure on what your point is, OP. People in all hobbies make videos that they share on the internet.

Nor me to be honest, I was just starting a discussion. Personally I find myself using the internet more and more to supplement this hobby but have never really considered it for my other hobbies.

Jehan-reznor wrote:What's your beef OP? there may be a pletora of reasons why the guy does it.
Same when i watch these BF4 and COD ghost yay-tubes, the guy just likes making them

Sorry if it sounds like I have a beef, that's not really the intended tone of my post. I actually enjoy and appreciate all of the effort that people go to to give me something to read, watch and think about.

carlos13th wrote:There are loads of factors for wanting to do this I wont bother going into but I don't think it too much different from posting something on a forum. its just the video takes more work.

Sure but why the need to post on forums at all?
I'm sure that if we all had more than enough games to play, people to talk with down the pub, families/friends with wargaming interests etc that the internet would be less prevalent in the hobby?

OP, since your Dakka avatar is what I assume a miniature you have painted yourself, I can kind-of see where you are coming from.
The traditional HHHobby is buy, assembly, paint, fluff, game.
Anything beyond that is beyond wargaming, but can be just as much a part of that person's hobby.
If you have a good liking model, upload it somewhere, and even blog about how you created it.
The same with gaming. Play a good game, and upload and blog about that game.
People do that when playing online games, too. It's just a new way of doing things, and we get to blame social media and networks for a lot of that.

I have gallery images here on Dakka, just like the OP, but I also don't write batreps or video myself gaming. Not saying they're wrong, just that I don't do them.

Imho, there's not a wargame out there worth all the cost, time, and effort, if i'm not going to be playing with my buddies. And i don't mean that as a hallmark card moment, i mean even though sometimes the games are weeks between, if i was not playing this game, i probably wouldn't bother with all the assembly, modeling, and painting.

... which is funny, because, i spend probably less than 10% of my "hobby time" actually playing the damn game.

Also, I've just realised that this is quite a strange place to be talking about this and replies/viewpoints will be somewhat biased.
If you're reading this post then you are amongst the percentage of wargaming hobbyists that are supplementing the hobby with 'extra curricular' activity.
I'd like to know what that percentage is?

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Sure, that makes sense, people video their families/pets etc all the time but that tends to be for personal use and prosperity.
Why would you want to then 'broadcast' it?
Edit: and what is it about this hobby in particular that make people want to do so?

I think YouTube would disagree with the "personal use" thing (damn cat vids)

The fact that wargaming spawns so much video footage online IMO is indicative of it's power to capture people's imaginations.
In the same way that artists are compelled to show their works, wargamers feel compelled to show off their painted minis.

In the same way that writers want to get recognised, wargamers want to share their place in this imaginary world

It's sharing of the hobby that makes it great

I think it's the coffee machine thing.

I remember the lads would all gather round the coffee machine each morning at the office I worked in back in Bristol, UK and talk about football. It was a universal binding thing, they could all talk about football, a nice removed thing, together and reinforce bonds without getting into anything personal.

I never could talk about that or saw any point to it, it in no way interested me and so I was removed from that club. Our hobby is in a distinct and tiny minority, I've noticed that despite being a fairly quiet person socially, when I meet others into this hobby or my other interest, fishkeeping, I become very vocal and get a sense of relief at talking about things that genuinely interest me instead of having to settle for small talk about things I have no interest in.

The battle you had last night with your mate is not something you can chat about in the office, but online you can post it and get feedback and that 'coffee machine' sense of community that our niche interest cannot afford us in everyday scenarios.

Alex, I remember being in your store a while ago and listening to folks up at the counter talking about the previous night's game, new codices and writers and thinking how it absolutely mirrored talking about watching 'the match', predicting signings to teams and the skills and competencies of club managers.


It's a tribal thing.

For me, there are a few reasons why writing Batreps and participating in forum discussion is enjoyable.

1) I have a love of writing, so for me, writing up a narrative for my latest game is a good chance to flex my creative muscles. It also does the hard work of providing its own plot, so I can focus more on an overall story arc for the batrep series and on the characters/events ect without worrying about having to plan everything. Conversely, the more I write about the characters in my army, and the army itself, the more I am immersed in the games they are part of. To be, a Commissar leading a platoon up a flank is far less exciting than Commissar-General Wolfe, sole survivor of the Calix Massacre, leading the heroic remnants of 3rd platoon of the First Antor Rifles company in a desperate bid to seize an enemy position.

2) I enjoy reading as much as writing, and I imagine there are others out there who also enjoy it, so if I write a batrep that I've enjoyed writing and someone else has enjoyed reading, then far more comes of the game than just a couple of hours spent pushing toy soldiers and throwing dice.

3) In terms of general forum participation, it's largely that I only have a very limited gaming circle, so being able to discuss my hobby with a far wider community is always a positive. You get a far more varied view, there's always some new inspiration or topic of discussion, and no shortage of good conversation.

4) Largely a sub-point of 3, if ever I'm stuck for inspiration, be it for a list, a paint scheme or a new way to play, there's usually something on here that can get me heading in the right direction.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
OK, so I was watching a battle report today on youtube.
This chap had obviously put a LOT of time and effort into it as well as the classic hobby etiquettes ie painting, modelling, list writing, terrain, fluff etc
Anyway, this got me thinking.....
Somehow something must be lacking in the standard wargaming experience for him to want to make and dedicate time to making such a thing?
Perhaps it's due to the fact that he would open up his experience to a wider audience, perhaps he was showing off, perhaps no one he knows cares much about wargaming or
perhaps creating a video like this squeezes some kind of added value from the hobby?
From experience I know that this hobby (and many others) can be an 'insular' experience with a lot of my enjoyment happening during a game or within a painting session.
In my experience these tend to be quite personal and short lived goals.

I've made battle reports before and I enjoy them but I was just wondering what other people's take on them were and why they did them? Please let me know.

If battle reports aren't your thing then what is it that makes you want to supplement your hobby with internet sites, forums and videos?
I've never felt the need to document/blog/video/forum post etc any of my other hobbies but somehow with this one it just feels right.

Oh no. There is plenty in there that he gets out of the hobby of wargaming.

People get different things that they want out of it.

Not speaking for others, but-
SOME- I/E -ME get a stress release, diversion, or an escape from not so nice things in the real world, or various artistic outlets that we can use to divert attention for a little while from stupidity of the real world.
I get to put on some tunes, drown out, and paint. After the painting, I go play a small game or two with the guys, add in another unit or two in or after the game, and expand the process by adding in a model tank or three, or heavy weapons, or additional enemies at that point, that you can then sell, get some green, and buy or save the loot for later.

Gaming itself is a good release and it is a fine way to spend an afternoon before you have to get back into the hole and keep digging.

You can go down to the shop, meet some new people, strike up some conversation, or even when you go all over the country/ world trashing stuff, you can take a break- go to the shops and shut it off for a few hours.

Other people go so far as to make a business out of it. ( Which might be cool, if I had that sort of time.)

Its also a good hobby to interrelate with outsiders, and the "Real" world of society. You can see that it isn't all mutts and clownshoes.

I disagree with the OP's assumption that a video AAR is separate from "The Hobby Itself". It's just one more part of the hobby. AAR's have appeared in wargaming magazines for decades before the Internet became such a force in gamer's (or anyone's) life.

There has always been a social aspect to wargaming. From the one on one experience against your oppoenent, to putting on a game at a convention for other wargamers to participate or observe. I see video battle reports as just an extension of Convention games and printed battle reports.

I don't do -or have the desire to watch- video reports, but I and my club frequently blog our battles as well as completed projects, DIY how-to's, reviews, etc. We do it for several reasons. It's a way for other gamers to get a feel for the kind of games we play, many of which don't have a huge online presence. It's also a mechanism to record the game for the club's members. Lastly it contributes to inspiring others to game/paint/build/etc. I know that I am inspired to see other's work -whether a how-to, gallery, or AAR- online and the feedback we get on the blog and the places we promote the blog indicates that our blog inspires others also.

Lastly, I would point out that filming and posting one's hobby is hardly unique to wargamers. Rock Climbers video their best climbs, gearheads post videos on how to mod their rides. etc. and all these hobbies also have blogs, forums, etc.

I know I use the internet for my hobby a lot more now because I barely ever get to indulge in it. This other avenues act as a sort of "experience mulitplier" and allow me to stretch out that one game or short painting session I had this quarter.

actually, to the OP, that he made a video, shows how MUCH he loves his hobby... thats the great thing about it...

paint, model, play, make videos, read books, make up your own rules, make up your own fluff....ect ect...

its such an open ended hobby, which is why its awesome! while some people may hate the painting aspect, they will love the social/gaming/video battle reports.

me? all i need is STUFF TO KRUMP WIT DA BOYZ
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Alex.. while I'm commenting here and have the opportunity, do you have any future store/club related plans for the future?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

*snip*

That's a pretty astute observation actually, I agree with it.

I suppose there is always a tendency for people to want to show off what they have created, and put effort into, and showing it to an appreciative crowd.

On the other hand, some of the battle reps you used to get on BoLS, of unpainted armies being played in what sounded like Victoria station during rush hour, I could never really see the attraction of.

I live in an area that cares little for painted armies and casual, narrative driven games. It's mostly tournament power gaming, an aspect of war gaming that REALLY turns me off. However I will love 40k until the day I die, thus it is Important for me to come on dakkadakka and share the hobby with the many gamers on here who appreciate the GrimDark the same way I do. And I do love a good battle report. Nothing better than watching two well painted armies battle over some good terrain like god intended.