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Or have I just never seen this one before.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/I/IA2_2nd_contents.pdf

Read the news and rumor boards, IA2 second edition is due up shortly.

This has been confirmed as the next FW book for some time now.

Its Imperial Armour Volume 2: Second Edition.

Most of the HH goodies will be made available in some capacity.

*Ninja'd by less than a minute*

Well maybe they will do people a favor and take a paragraph on the first page to get games workshop to say theyse units are official, allowed in any games without needing special permission.

 Orock wrote:
Well maybe they will do people a favor and take a paragraph on the first page to get games workshop to say theyse units are official, allowed in any games without needing special permission.

You mean like how they already state they're official?

 Blacksails wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Well maybe they will do people a favor and take a paragraph on the first page to get games workshop to say theyse units are official, allowed in any games without needing special permission.

You mean like how they already state they're official?

Every tournament I have gone to in my area in Oregon-regardless of who is running it- has banned forgeworld rules. These same tournaments do NOT ban the blatant cheese like triptides, screamerstars, ect. If its "official" but you cant use it without permission when it actually matters (because anyone can agree to use or not in a friendly game) why can't I use them?

If you have a jetski, and jetski's are legal in your state, and every river lake and beach for some reason outlawed them in their particular area, what does it matter if its legal or not?

Its almost like tournaments have no bearing on the 'legality' of any aspect of the game, as if they can apply any restriction or rules they want.

 Blacksails wrote:
Its almost like tournaments have no bearing on the 'legality' of any aspect of the game, as if they can apply any restriction or rules they want.

And yet, because of this, they can make your investment worthless. This is what is really holding back forgeworld units and sales. People still tell you "no you cant use that". I would rather buy a regular GW dread I know nobody is going to give me crap about, then potentially waste my money when I want to use a contemptor dread. Forgeworld is fine and good for proxies, but its too risky to buy a forgeworld only unit that you might get to field twice. Especially if its even slightly superior to the standard, like the example I gave. People used to fighting the cheeziest of the cheese lists will look at you and say NOPE!

Well, then its a good thing I don't play many tournaments. I'm sure most games people play would also fall under the 'not a tournament' category. So, not really a risky proposition if you assume that tournament games makes up a marginal amount for the average gamer.

Are you now going to argue that FW is overpowered? That its somehow 'cheesier' than normal codex lists? If you do, I'd be interested in finding out which units are so broken that it makes players shudder at the sight or make 2++ re-rollable daemons look tame.

But hey, its not like there's a stamp saying they're official by the company who makes the game the rules were designed for.

I'll give this a shot though; what do you require written on the front for it to be considered legal? Furthermore, why would this statement in the answer to the previous statement have to be there and why is the current stamp insufficient?

 Blacksails wrote:
Well, then its a good thing I don't play many tournaments. I'm sure most games people play would also fall under the 'not a tournament' category. So, not really a risky proposition if you assume that tournament games makes up a marginal amount for the average gamer.

Are you now going to argue that FW is overpowered? That its somehow 'cheesier' than normal codex lists? If you do, I'd be interested in finding out which units are so broken that it makes players shudder at the sight or make 2++ re-rollable daemons look tame.

But hey, its not like there's a stamp saying they're official by the company who makes the game the rules were designed for.

I'll give this a shot though; what do you require written on the front for it to be considered legal? Furthermore, why would this statement in the answer to the previous statement have to be there and why is the current stamp insufficient?

The stamp is insufficient because tournaments can rule it invalid. They can not rule the stinking screamerstar list invalid, Even if a forgeworld unit is fluffy balanced, and fun, they can say no.

And as for units that are cheesier? The rvanna riptide with its 4 pie plates immediately jumps to mind. Unless you think they are going to risk being sued for bait and switch or losing their number 3 seller since its release by balancing it? The Spartan went from experimental to live with zero changes.

Tournaments can rule anything invalid. I could create a tournament banning a number of thing like allies or double force org, or Tau. It wouldn't set any precedent, the same way any tournament that rules no FW sets no precedent for the legality of FW. Plus, there are several tournaments that do allow FW, so how do you reconcile that? Is there a hierarchy of tournament rulings that need to be followed?

You mean the experimental riptide suit? Yeah, I'll admit its overpowered, but it is experimental and very few FW rules survive to publication and remain that way. As for the Spartan, are you seriously arguing its overpowered? A 300pts Land Raider with extra capacity you're hard pressed to fill, which then only puts more eggs in one basket that most armies now can reliably deal with.

Again; what do you require written on the front for it to be considered legal? Furthermore, why would this statement in the answer to the previous statement have to be there and why is the current stamp insufficient?

Well, this thread got sidetracked pretty fast... Only took three replies.

Oh look. Another book I won't bother buying because of its imperial focus and no xenos (specifically Tyranid) bits.

feth Forgeworld - seriously.

rigeld2 wrote:
Oh look. Another book I won't bother buying because of its imperial focus and no xenos (specifically Tyranid) bits.

Yeah, I'm just shocked that FW would update their oldest (and OOP) book without an update and finally do something about the complete mess of marine units being spread across several different books (some of which are OOP) instead of making a Tyranid book that would be obsolete almost as soon as it was printed when the new Tyranid codex arrives.

Yay, the assault ram is getting a new coat of paint.

I'm an aerospace engineer (well, will be in 6 months) and I find the whole idea infinitely amusing. It's like they looked at the Storm Raven and said "nope, not enough armor. Make it heavier"

This argument about legality is already being discussed in another thread. JFC lets talk about something else... Like how great this book is going to be!

Infernum pattern razorback? Maybe the Lascannon and twin linked plasma gun version will appear in a new form?

 zedmeister wrote:
Infernum pattern razorback? Maybe the Lascannon and twin linked plasma gun version will appear in a new form?

Most likely just a renamed version of the Predator Infernus which has already been published elsewhere. It's a Predator with alternate melta cannon/giant flamer/executioner plasma cannon/heavy conversion beamer options.

 Peregrine wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Infernum pattern razorback? Maybe the Lascannon and twin linked plasma gun version will appear in a new form?

Most likely just a renamed version of the Predator Infernus which has already been published elsewhere. It's a Predator with alternate melta cannon/giant flamer/executioner plasma cannon/heavy conversion beamer options.

No, I don't think that's it. There's already the Deimos Pattern Predator entry, which will likely be the Relic Predator in IA: Apoc (2013). The Razorback Infernum states thats its a Rhino/Razor vehicle in the little blurb above it, so I think it'll be a razor with one or two more option, like a MM option.

 Peregrine wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Oh look. Another book I won't bother buying because of its imperial focus and no xenos (specifically Tyranid) bits.

Yeah, I'm just shocked that FW would update their oldest (and OOP) book without an update and finally do something about the complete mess of marine units being spread across several different books (some of which are OOP) instead of making a Tyranid book that would be obsolete almost as soon as it was printed when the new Tyranid codex arrives.

Since they're the same studio it'd be pretty easy to not make anything they print obsolete - communication. Shout down the hallway.
Not saying the units didn't need updating - I'm sure they did. Just a worthless book to me. Am I not allowed to say that?

 Blacksails wrote:
Tournaments can rule anything invalid. I could create a tournament banning a number of thing like allies or double force org, or Tau. It wouldn't set any precedent, the same way any tournament that rules no FW sets no precedent for the legality of FW. Plus, there are several tournaments that do allow FW, so how do you reconcile that? Is there a hierarchy of tournament rulings that need to be followed?

You mean the experimental riptide suit? Yeah, I'll admit its overpowered, but it is experimental and very few FW rules survive to publication and remain that way. As for the Spartan, are you seriously arguing its overpowered? A 300pts Land Raider with extra capacity you're hard pressed to fill, which then only puts more eggs in one basket that most armies now can reliably deal with.

Again; what do you require written on the front for it to be considered legal? Furthermore, why would this statement in the answer to the previous statement have to be there and why is the current stamp insufficient?

I was at a tournament which banned battlewagons because the TO thought deff rollas were too strong. TOs can do whatever the hell they want, excluding FW is slightly more common than other things - keep in mind that most tournament also ignore a lot of rules when it comes to setting up the table and mission.