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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter






Dimmamar

My opponent decided that I could not do this and since I had another, equally attractive target in range (AND since I had already successfully won two earlier arguments about LoS and Gun Emplacements), I didn't argue.
He says that the Serpent Shield says, "In its shooting phase," which means I can't use Puppet Master to fire the Shield. However, after reading the thread about Puppet Master and Psykers, I'm beginning to think that the specifics of Puppet Master overrides the general shooting phase phrase in the Eldar book. Thoughts?

I thought this would be a fantastic tactic: Pod in, Libby controls the Serpent and pops another vehicle on rear AV, and then Devastators destroy the Serpent since it's used its shield.

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 6000 2000 5000


"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Without having an Eldar book in front of me I'd say that you can indeed Puppet Master a Wave Serpent into dropping it's shield. Anrakyr should be able to do the same thing with Mind in the Machine. The "it's own shooting phase" restriction isn't one the community seems to think is valid, judging by these poll numbers. Assuming that's the only impediment, then a psyker should totally be able to drop the shield for his homies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/04 21:06:56


Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






One thing i would ask though is, Is the shield considered a Weapon selectable as a shooting attack as its listed as wargear?


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Puppet Master never specifies that it has to affect a weapon.

"The target immediately makes a shooting attack as if it was one of your models."

Psychic powers or pieces of wargear which have the option to fire as weapons seem to be completely legitimate uses of Puppet Master, so long as they end up making a shooting attack.

Edit: Anrakyr the Traveller's Mind in the Machine ability also doesn't limit it to a weapon (as opposed to wargear that fires as a weapon) so again, should be legitimate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/04 21:07:32


Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in gb
Tough Tyrant Guard





SHE-FI-ELD

Yeah poll shows a fair majority on the issue, just keep track of models or units which have restrictions based on their next shooting phase, or their next turn, however far you want to take the models turn changes.Don't want to be puppet mastering those, or you end up taking on the restriction and lifting it for your opponent.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/04 21:44:49


It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.

Tactical objectives are fantastic 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Since puppet master says "The target immediately makes a shooting attack as if it was one of your models." Could you technically also use that to flat out the vehicle in question? With a serpent or something that could really pull it out of position and possibly put it into charge range of your models as well. You can flatout in lieu of using your weapons so technically it's the same idea as forcing them to take a witchfire test.
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Hadn't thought about that. Hmmm. Have to study on it a bit.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






A Witchfire is a shooting attack, just one which doesn't use a gun. Running or Flat-Out-ing isn't a shooting attack, it's done instead of one, but Puppet Master only gives you permission to make a shooting attack.

Another thing to consider is the limited firing arc of the Shield. Unlike Walkers, you're not given permission to pivot the vehicle during a Puppet Master.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




icefire78 wrote:
Since puppet master says "The target immediately makes a shooting attack as if it was one of your models." Could you technically also use that to flat out the vehicle in question? With a serpent or something that could really pull it out of position and possibly put it into charge range of your models as well. You can flatout in lieu of using your weapons so technically it's the same idea as forcing them to take a witchfire test.


You Flat Out instead of shooting. They are not equivalent. So, no you cannot make them flat out.
   
 
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