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Ok since the proverbial sky is falling faster than ever for the competitive 40k gamer, I'm going to take the leap and attempt to piece together a Comp, that has been developed by the whole community, and can possibly be then rolled out across the tournament scene.

So how this will work...

Step 1. We work out together a comprehensive list of things that we agree need Comp(ing?). Throw up your suggestions, and if the general consensus is that your suggestion needs help it will be added to the list.

Step 2.. Once we have a comprehensive list, discussion will begin on how these rules should be comped.

Step 3... The final article should then be released in one easy, go too article.


If you have any constructive feedback on the method, feel free to add that.


I'll get the ball Rollin with the obvious ones. I'll also add the possible suggestions to this list, feel free to keep suggesting. If you want to make a comment on any in the list, if you agree or disagree with it's place on the list make your self heard.

Re-rollable 2++ Invunerables.
Wave Serpents
Strength D
Super Heavies.
Divination
Baleflamer

Please don't brush by this, this is your chance to help be part of something, that could be worthwhile tot he whole gaming community,

I agree with all of those except wave serpents.

Sure they put out a lot of fire power but then, when they are around 145pts for a dedicated transport, they should be.

I would agree with a points hike on either the transport or the scatter laser upgrade though, as that appears to be the only turret gun people want to take now.

My personal vote for something to comp would be the divination table. Either swap prescience for scryers gaze as the primaris or up the warp charge cost to cast it.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I agree with all of those except wave serpents.

Sure they put out a lot of fire power but then, when they are around 145pts for a dedicated transport, they should be.

I would agree with a points hike on either the transport or the scatter laser upgrade though, as that appears to be the only turret gun people want to take now.

My personal vote for something to comp would be the divination table. Either swap prescience for scryers gaze as the primaris or up the warp charge cost to cast it.

Ok I'm going to add Divination table to the possible list for everyone else to discuss.

I think if the Serpent shield was made a one shot weapon, it would be fine.

Another vote for the Serpent shield being a one shot weapon.

Best inv save is 3++.

A proposal for the Heldrake: a flyer can use a template weapon only while hovering.

 da001 wrote:
Another vote for the Serpent shield being a one shot weapon.

Best inv save is 3++.

A proposal for the Heldrake: a flyer can use a template weapon only while hovering.

At the moment I'm more after just building up the list, and then we will begin discussing the changes. I will put the Baleflamer on the possible list for discussion though. And take note of your suggestions on max Invunerable.

How fast irks die, it's not fun...

I still don't see the issue with Divination.

It's allowing Imperial armies to fight back against the TauDar psychic dominance.

Would you rather Eldar have the only assured way to re-roll?

Iranna.

Daemons should be better...

ATSKNF. I know its a massive part of the space marines character, but to me it seems like nothing more then a massive crutch for new SM players where they can effectively ignore 1/4 of all the rules. Then you can add this rule to any old 50 man Guard Blob with an allied Liberian, it becomes ridiculous. Not sure how to change it, maybe have it not effect allied units for a start and then work on it. It simply seems to be a far to powerful ability for several ENTIRE armies to have, and really shows up with Chaos's lack of it.

Overwatch OP

Don't we already have one joke comp thread?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/567609.page

Forgive me but might I foolishly ask what the comp means in particular? Stat wrote, limits, out right banning?

Removing the bale flame leaves csm only with fewer tricks. We all know that drake plague and oblits are the tools.
Oh and as someone mentioned that serpent is good for what it costs, same thing for heldrake. For 170 you all abilities plus one weapon so..

Honestly it might be arguable that superheavies themself aren't the problem. A baneblade for example is worse than using those points on leman russes for example. But then you get the c'tan and Eldar titan. That's when things start to show their faults.

Also yeah CSM kind crummy. Onto daemons, 2++ being banned I don't go by. The chaos powers are kinda random and all that. Instead, perhaps something like a 2++ re-roll secondary is restricted to 4++. Still high but it at least makes it a bit more reasonable.

I argue Wave serpents are op but it seems unjust banning an entire transport.

And I can't believe I am going to say this but PLEASE don't ban divination. It's not like there are only 3 decent psyker tables anyways. I'm a tzeentch player and, to be blunt, banning divination ruins the concept of Tzeentch but also restricts all their spells to only being from the spells of tzeentch. That's incredibly restrictive and not really entertaining.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:ATSKNF. I know its a massive part of the space marines character, but to me it seems like nothing more then a massive crutch for new SM players where they can effectively ignore 1/4 of all the rules. Then you can add this rule to any old 50 man Guard Blob with an allied Liberian, it becomes ridiculous. Not sure how to change it, maybe have it not effect allied units for a start and then work on it. It simply seems to be a far to powerful ability for several ENTIRE armies to have, and really shows up with Chaos's lack of it.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that marines are overpowered. Maybe this is more an issue with Battle Brother allies?

pretre wrote:Don't we already have one joke comp thread?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/567609.page

Yeah, which by the way is the greatest thread ever!

This is supposed to be a more serious thread with a level headed approach to help avoid all of the crazy sky falling that is going on at the moment.

avedominusnox wrote:Removing the bale flame leaves csm only with fewer tricks. We all know that drake plague and oblits are the tools.
Oh and as someone mentioned that serpent is good for what it costs, same thing for heldrake. For 170 you all abilities plus one weapon so..

Comping the Baleflamer doesn't mean removing it necessarily, there are more ways than one to help reign it in a little. Like reversing the FAQ that broke it?

And the Wave serpent is fine, if a bit spammable being a dedicated transport. The shield itself, in my opinion is the thing that needs addressing,

Modify the allies chart, if not outright remove Battle Brothers.

Personally I reckon everyone can ally with everyone as Allies of Convenience.

It's when rules for army A get shoehorned into army B that was not designed for them that the game turns to gak. IE, forementioned ATSKNF on 50 guard. This sort of nonsense takes the tactics out of the game and reduces it to who has the biggest 'force multiplier'

If we ONLY removed battle brothers from alliance matrix, the whole game would change. If a first change should apply then that's the best first shot!

Eldercaveman wrote:

avedominusnox wrote:Removing the bale flame leaves csm only with fewer tricks. We all know that drake plague and oblits are the tools.
Oh and as someone mentioned that serpent is good for what it costs, same thing for heldrake. For 170 you all abilities plus one weapon so..

Comping the Baleflamer doesn't mean removing it necessarily, there are more ways than one to help reign it in a little. Like reversing the FAQ that broke it?

Honestly, all that needs to be done is make it cost points. 20-30pts should be enough.

I dont think a cost should be added to the baleflamer, restrict how many 'drakes can be used. Same with the wave serpent, plus the serpent shield as a one use.

I play chaos so you may say I'm biased. I only ever run the one drake and thats not all the time though. Yes it has a great weapon but it's more than likely to get burnt down after it's first turn. Apart from the bbos, it's the only consistent ignores cover fire you see from csm.

Someone mentioned earlier about it only being used whilst in hover mode. Heldrakes can't hover.

 Reptile(5iN) wrote:


Someone mentioned earlier about it only being used whilst in hover mode. Heldrakes can't hover.

Wot?
In the codex is Vehicle (Flyer, Hover), and in the last FAQ (April 2013) there is nothing about the Heldrake save the "how do I determine the Arc of Sight?" thing.

Did I miss something?

Anyway: this simple change makes wonders to nerf down the dragon. It is still highly dangerous, but not anymore a must take. I seriously recommend it.

I don't think anything would effect overall game balance/imbalance meta as easily or profoundly as just dealing with the BOA allies thing. Will it fix everything? No, not but a long shot... but it'll take care of some of the worst abuses without any muss or fuss.