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all togeather, they decide to rebel against the whole imperium military their legions, the guard, and the emperor

could the imperium stop the 18 primarchs, how much damage would they do before they were stopped

What do you mean? Just the 18 primarchs attacking all the rest of the imperium, all the space marines, guard, the emperor everything? Not very much. Apart from anything else they would all be stuck on the planet they were on.

They would probably kill a few hundred to a few thousand each, but pretty soon they would go down with just the 18 of them.

All Primarchs together with their respective Legion? The Imperium is doomed.

Just the Primarchs? The betrayal is devastating, but in emotional sense. Threat-wise, they'd be dealt with quickly. With some difficulty, of course, but even 18 demi-gods wouldn't stand a chance against millions (billions?) of Space Marines, Guardsmen, psykers, tanks, walkers, fighters, artillery...

What Khan says, on their todd, they would get squished after doing some damage.

With their Legions, the Imperium would not exist as it does today, if at all.

Half of them did.

Da krimson barun wrote:
Half of them did.

And of those only what, three were actually killed? And I'm not even sure you can count Curze in that mix, because it's always seemed pretty clear he committed suicide by cop (in this case the cop being a Callidus).

If alone, they'll get shot to death from orbit before they can leave the planet. If with their legions then the Imperium is screwed.

Even all the legions together couldn't take on the Imperium's war machine once it got its act together.... If this were to happen then the fight would be decided in space where hand to hand combat is equalised and it becomes about number of spaceships and fire power. The imperial guard and mechanicum out numbered the legions space capabilities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We're talking millions of planets worth of armies compared to 18 (albeit sizeable) space marine legions which if you're taking the maximum had about 300,000 space marines each....

Not taking in to account the legions that were MUCH smaller, I.e. Thousand sons, emperors children etc

Only if they each did up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A.
On a more serious note, instead of spamming forums with silly questions, read a bit more fluff, then apply common sense. There are a lot of good/free resources out there that you are familiar with (lexicanum, 40k wiki, beg/borrow/steal books from friends), so take advantage of them. 18 primarchs vs a galaxy spanning empire armed to the teeth with a population in the trillions. Do the math.

 DEUS VULT wrote:
On a more serious note, instead of spamming forums with silly questions, read a bit more fluff, then apply common sense. .

This, a billion times this!

If it was during the Great Crusade, the Imperium would be very very very fethed. Assuming they would retain control of their respective Legions.

If the 18 Primarchs would somehow all gather up and attack unsupported in the 41st millennium, they would cause a lot of noise, but would ultimately be swamped.

If the Great Crusade-era Legions and Primarchs attacked present day Imperium, the Imperium is, again, fethed.

I don't know about that... The great crusade wasn't fought by 'just marines' there was the guard and the mechanicus, now assuming the emporer doesn't get sniped early on, the imperial truth would remain, technology and development would carry on....

It really does depend on whether the rebellion is supported by chaos, or if it is just the Primarch and their marines, it would be bloody but they could be held back maybe? Also, the Emp could work his way round taking out a Primarch at a time, he could build and train huge armies of custodes if he had the time to keep the marines at bay, maybe tweaking their tactics so they were more team like and lastly....He could just start making thunder warriors again, on a mass scale as they can be made quite fast in comparison to a marine, or just make more marines if he has the time... Heck, he built the Primarch's once, he may be able to do it again.

I don't think it would be an easy victory either way.

If the 18 primarchs have the full force of their legions, and their individual Mechanicus allies then the rest of the Imperium is fethed.

Do these Primarchs have their legions or not?

Yes the primarchs would truly be cute.

Powerful as they are, war isnt just swinging your fists, its having the support of transports, fire support, supplies, etc.

 sing your life wrote:
Do these Primarchs have their legions or not?

It would be completely unrealistic for the primarchs not to have their children fighting with them. This loyalty was the main problem last time.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Do these Primarchs have their legions or not?

It would be completely unrealistic for the primarchs not to have their children fighting with them. This loyalty was the main problem last time.

Well they with the SM being trained for specialist strikes [like on earth] the imperium is totally screwed.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't know about that... The great crusade wasn't fought by 'just marines' there was the guard and the mechanicus, now assuming the emporer doesn't get sniped early on, the imperial truth would remain, technology and development would carry on....

It really does depend on whether the rebellion is supported by chaos, or if it is just the Primarch and their marines, it would be bloody but they could be held back maybe? Also, the Emp could work his way round taking out a Primarch at a time, he could build and train huge armies of custodes if he had the time to keep the marines at bay, maybe tweaking their tactics so they were more team like and lastly....He could just start making thunder warriors again, on a mass scale as they can be made quite fast in comparison to a marine, or just make more marines if he has the time... Heck, he built the Primarch's once, he may be able to do it again.

I don't think it would be an easy victory either way.

Not really. Think about it... With half of them they made it to Terra and eternally hospitalized Big E.
So that's half of them with the other half defending. If you take away the loyalists the Imperium's screwed never mind adding them the the traitors.

However this really is a pointless thread.

If all 18 legions would have rebelled, than they would have conquered the Imperium in the blink of an eye. A single legion was enough to wipe out entire empires and civilizations, the power of 18 legions combined is almost beyond comprehension.

If it is just the primarchs without their legions, well, I don't think an answer is required for that, you should apply common sense.

 Brother Payne wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't know about that... The great crusade wasn't fought by 'just marines' there was the guard and the mechanicus, now assuming the emporer doesn't get sniped early on, the imperial truth would remain, technology and development would carry on....

It really does depend on whether the rebellion is supported by chaos, or if it is just the Primarch and their marines, it would be bloody but they could be held back maybe? Also, the Emp could work his way round taking out a Primarch at a time, he could build and train huge armies of custodes if he had the time to keep the marines at bay, maybe tweaking their tactics so they were more team like and lastly....He could just start making thunder warriors again, on a mass scale as they can be made quite fast in comparison to a marine, or just make more marines if he has the time... Heck, he built the Primarch's once, he may be able to do it again.

I don't think it would be an easy victory either way.

Not really. Think about it... With half of them they made it to Terra and eternally hospitalized Big E.
So that's half of them with the other half defending. If you take away the loyalists the Imperium's screwed never mind adding them the the traitors.

However this really is a pointless thread.

A chaos uber powered horus took out Big E as he was holding back... The involvement of chaos would be crucial I imagine, also, the Emp would have had a more active role in the heresy if Magnus wouldn't have turned the human webway into a daemon party. There are a lot of factors to consider, and the Legions were only limited in number in comparison to the rest of the imperium, arguably Horus only got to Earth as he turned Mars into a civil war, if Mars remained on the emps side then that isa HUGE deal.

It really isn't as simple as one side would squash the other, however I agree, the discussion is pointless albeit a little bit fun.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't know about that... The great crusade wasn't fought by 'just marines' there was the guard and the mechanicus, now assuming the emporer doesn't get sniped early on, the imperial truth would remain, technology and development would carry on....

It really does depend on whether the rebellion is supported by chaos, or if it is just the Primarch and their marines, it would be bloody but they could be held back maybe? Also, the Emp could work his way round taking out a Primarch at a time, he could build and train huge armies of custodes if he had the time to keep the marines at bay, maybe tweaking their tactics so they were more team like and lastly....He could just start making thunder warriors again, on a mass scale as they can be made quite fast in comparison to a marine, or just make more marines if he has the time... Heck, he built the Primarch's once, he may be able to do it again.

I don't think it would be an easy victory either way.

Not really. Think about it... With half of them they made it to Terra and eternally hospitalized Big E.
So that's half of them with the other half defending. If you take away the loyalists the Imperium's screwed never mind adding them the the traitors.

However this really is a pointless thread.

A chaos uber powered horus took out Big E as he was holding back... The involvement of chaos would be crucial I imagine, also, the Emp would have had a more active role in the heresy if Magnus wouldn't have turned the human webway into a daemon party. There are a lot of factors to consider, and the Legions were only limited in number in comparison to the rest of the imperium, arguably Horus only got to Earth as he turned Mars into a civil war, if Mars remained on the emps side then that isa HUGE deal.

It really isn't as simple as one side would squash the other, however I agree, the discussion is pointless albeit a little bit fun.

For the sake of mental masturbation, I've thought about the 18 Legions v. All. I think you're absolutely right. We can't forget that Horus had half of mars, the Imperial Army and Navy fighting on his side. The 18 legions would face serious logistics issues without the support of the cult of Mars, the guard to handle clean up duties, and the Navy to secure space lanes and supply lines. The legions were huge, its true, but on a galactic scale still woefully lacking. It would be a nasty affair, but eventually the Imperium would win through attrition. Think Germany v. USSR in WWII.

 DEUS VULT wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't know about that... The great crusade wasn't fought by 'just marines' there was the guard and the mechanicus, now assuming the emporer doesn't get sniped early on, the imperial truth would remain, technology and development would carry on....

It really does depend on whether the rebellion is supported by chaos, or if it is just the Primarch and their marines, it would be bloody but they could be held back maybe? Also, the Emp could work his way round taking out a Primarch at a time, he could build and train huge armies of custodes if he had the time to keep the marines at bay, maybe tweaking their tactics so they were more team like and lastly....He could just start making thunder warriors again, on a mass scale as they can be made quite fast in comparison to a marine, or just make more marines if he has the time... Heck, he built the Primarch's once, he may be able to do it again.

I don't think it would be an easy victory either way.

Not really. Think about it... With half of them they made it to Terra and eternally hospitalized Big E.
So that's half of them with the other half defending. If you take away the loyalists the Imperium's screwed never mind adding them the the traitors.

However this really is a pointless thread.

A chaos uber powered horus took out Big E as he was holding back... The involvement of chaos would be crucial I imagine, also, the Emp would have had a more active role in the heresy if Magnus wouldn't have turned the human webway into a daemon party. There are a lot of factors to consider, and the Legions were only limited in number in comparison to the rest of the imperium, arguably Horus only got to Earth as he turned Mars into a civil war, if Mars remained on the emps side then that isa HUGE deal.

It really isn't as simple as one side would squash the other, however I agree, the discussion is pointless albeit a little bit fun.

For the sake of mental masturbation, I've thought about the 18 Legions v. All. I think you're absolutely right. We can't forget that Horus had half of mars, the Imperial Army and Navy fighting on his side. The 18 legions would face serious logistics issues without the support of the cult of Mars, the guard to handle clean up duties, and the Navy to secure space lanes and supply lines. The legions were huge, its true, but on a galactic scale still woefully lacking. It would be a nasty affair, but eventually the Imperium would win through attrition. Think Germany v. USSR in WWII.

But then think about how small a portion of legion was require to take a world... 1/2 at most! With 18 you would no longer taking the Imperium world by world but sector by sector.
Yeah the Mecanicum's a bit of an issue...

EDIT: but who says 18 primarchs can't convince them to join

 Brother Payne wrote:

 DEUS VULT wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't know about that... The great crusade wasn't fought by 'just marines' there was the guard and the mechanicus, now assuming the emporer doesn't get sniped early on, the imperial truth would remain, technology and development would carry on....

It really does depend on whether the rebellion is supported by chaos, or if it is just the Primarch and their marines, it would be bloody but they could be held back maybe? Also, the Emp could work his way round taking out a Primarch at a time, he could build and train huge armies of custodes if he had the time to keep the marines at bay, maybe tweaking their tactics so they were more team like and lastly....He could just start making thunder warriors again, on a mass scale as they can be made quite fast in comparison to a marine, or just make more marines if he has the time... Heck, he built the Primarch's once, he may be able to do it again.

I don't think it would be an easy victory either way.

Not really. Think about it... With half of them they made it to Terra and eternally hospitalized Big E.
So that's half of them with the other half defending. If you take away the loyalists the Imperium's screwed never mind adding them the the traitors.

However this really is a pointless thread.

A chaos uber powered horus took out Big E as he was holding back... The involvement of chaos would be crucial I imagine, also, the Emp would have had a more active role in the heresy if Magnus wouldn't have turned the human webway into a daemon party. There are a lot of factors to consider, and the Legions were only limited in number in comparison to the rest of the imperium, arguably Horus only got to Earth as he turned Mars into a civil war, if Mars remained on the emps side then that isa HUGE deal.

It really isn't as simple as one side would squash the other, however I agree, the discussion is pointless albeit a little bit fun.

For the sake of mental masturbation, I've thought about the 18 Legions v. All. I think you're absolutely right. We can't forget that Horus had half of mars, the Imperial Army and Navy fighting on his side. The 18 legions would face serious logistics issues without the support of the cult of Mars, the guard to handle clean up duties, and the Navy to secure space lanes and supply lines. The legions were huge, its true, but on a galactic scale still woefully lacking. It would be a nasty affair, but eventually the Imperium would win through attrition. Think Germany v. USSR in WWII.

But then think about how small a portion of legion was require to take a world... 1/2 at most! With 18 you would no longer taking the Imperium world by world but sector by sector.
Yeah the Mecanicum's a bit of an issue...

EDIT: but who says 18 primarchs can't convince them to join

Oh for sure! i get your point; my contention isn't that the Gang of 18 couldn't take land, it's that they couldn't hold it. You start leaving 500 Marines here and there to hold a planet and before you know it, you're legion is spread too thin to conduct serious offensive operations. This gives the Mars-equipped Imperium time to refit, reload and come right at your depleted legion.

 DEUS VULT wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

 DEUS VULT wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't know about that... The great crusade wasn't fought by 'just marines' there was the guard and the mechanicus, now assuming the emporer doesn't get sniped early on, the imperial truth would remain, technology and development would carry on....

It really does depend on whether the rebellion is supported by chaos, or if it is just the Primarch and their marines, it would be bloody but they could be held back maybe? Also, the Emp could work his way round taking out a Primarch at a time, he could build and train huge armies of custodes if he had the time to keep the marines at bay, maybe tweaking their tactics so they were more team like and lastly....He could just start making thunder warriors again, on a mass scale as they can be made quite fast in comparison to a marine, or just make more marines if he has the time... Heck, he built the Primarch's once, he may be able to do it again.

I don't think it would be an easy victory either way.

Not really. Think about it... With half of them they made it to Terra and eternally hospitalized Big E.
So that's half of them with the other half defending. If you take away the loyalists the Imperium's screwed never mind adding them the the traitors.

However this really is a pointless thread.

A chaos uber powered horus took out Big E as he was holding back... The involvement of chaos would be crucial I imagine, also, the Emp would have had a more active role in the heresy if Magnus wouldn't have turned the human webway into a daemon party. There are a lot of factors to consider, and the Legions were only limited in number in comparison to the rest of the imperium, arguably Horus only got to Earth as he turned Mars into a civil war, if Mars remained on the emps side then that isa HUGE deal.

It really isn't as simple as one side would squash the other, however I agree, the discussion is pointless albeit a little bit fun.

For the sake of mental masturbation, I've thought about the 18 Legions v. All. I think you're absolutely right. We can't forget that Horus had half of mars, the Imperial Army and Navy fighting on his side. The 18 legions would face serious logistics issues without the support of the cult of Mars, the guard to handle clean up duties, and the Navy to secure space lanes and supply lines. The legions were huge, its true, but on a galactic scale still woefully lacking. It would be a nasty affair, but eventually the Imperium would win through attrition. Think Germany v. USSR in WWII.

But then think about how small a portion of legion was require to take a world... 1/2 at most! With 18 you would no longer taking the Imperium world by world but sector by sector.
Yeah the Mecanicum's a bit of an issue...

EDIT: but who says 18 primarchs can't convince them to join

Oh for sure! i get your point; my contention isn't that the Gang of 18 couldn't take land, it's that they couldn't hold it. You start leaving 500 Marines here and there to hold a planet and before you know it, you're legion is spread too thin to conduct serious offensive operations. This gives the Mars-equipped Imperium time to refit, reload and come right at your depleted legion.

Fair point.
Random person: "You could just aim to wipe out literally everyone! "
Ha. Ha. Ha. No

TC, go read fluff before posting more, please. Take two weeks, absorb all you can from wikia and lexicanum, read some novels, and THEN come back. You're making these forums annoying to come to, since we cannot ignore your thread once someone else posts in it..

 troa wrote:
TC, go read fluff before posting more, please. Take two weeks, absorb all you can from wikia and lexicanum, read some novels, and THEN come back. You're making these forums annoying to come to, since we cannot ignore your thread once someone else posts in it..

He continuously posits these bizarre scenarios for us to theorycraft with, the sad thing is, people here all fall for the cheesiness of them and then everyone gets all pissed off and it winds everyone up until it's eventually locked. Very irritating to see the thread titles by this guy all over the place.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:

 troa wrote:
TC, go read fluff before posting more, please. Take two weeks, absorb all you can from wikia and lexicanum, read some novels, and THEN come back. You're making these forums annoying to come to, since we cannot ignore your thread once someone else posts in it..

He continuously posits these bizarre scenarios for us to theorycraft with, the sad thing is, people here all fall for the cheesiness of them and then everyone gets all pissed off and it winds everyone up until it's eventually locked. Very irritating to see the thread titles by this guy all over the place.

Indeed, the worst part of it is he extends it unnecessarily by posting "responses" towards comments that don't exist or argues against something that never has been brought up by anyone. Methinks there is some tomfoolery afoot....

 Omegus wrote:

 DEUS VULT wrote:
On a more serious note, instead of spamming forums with silly questions, read a bit more fluff, then apply common sense. .

This, a billion times this!

Sometimes less is indeed more.