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I, like a fair number of you, it seems, have joined an escalation league. Like most, our first month will be set at a low points value, 500 pts.

I'm wondering how you think lists at this point level should be built? Do you try to put as many boots on the ground as possible, or do you take the minimum hq and 2 troops and give them all the bells and whistles?

We have the additional constraint of taking only hq and troops at 500. How does this affect your list?

Honestly, 500 points often end up as "try to take them by suprize" and bring something that requires a dedicated answer they are unlikely to pack at the cost, like tossing in land raider and minimum army and hope for no enemy anti-tank.

With only HQ and troops, it might boil down to getting a supertanker HQ that cannot be taken down with mere troops.
For example TE WILL throw a 2+ T5 4W FnP commander at you, and good luck killing it with limited low-AP guns troops got.

Like most armies, I tend to go for maximum possible guys, as numbers are more of an advantage in low-point games (as the stuff that will kill them won't be as likely to show up), but there are a few things to bear in mind.

You need to be able to handle threats later on if it's a league, so don't just tailor your list to small games. Remember that further down the line you'll be facing Fliers, high-AV vehicles and MCs, so plan accordingly. Even with the HQ+troops limit, IG can do a fairly good mech list (CCS+2 Vet Squads) which will just laugh off small arms and Nids can bring a MC if they try, possibly even a Flyrant. So certainly pack some kind of AT and Anti-MC if you expect to see nids or IG.

What army are you playing in the league? That will probably be the biggest informant on your general strategy, secondly who you are playing against will also be a huge factor.

What army are you using first of all?

I find more the merrier in low points games but at the same time some armies can go with min troops and still make a very intimidating army.

Over all though is you cant go wrong with more bodies rather than toys, just add a few options to kill armour and youll be fine

I have done one of these before but at 250 points a month, I went with a nurgle herald and a squad of plague bearers. At first I find the lists tend to build themselves because of limited options. I imagine this is mostly for fun so my advice would be pick the stuff you like the look/fluff of. I guess that a tooled up character would be a good choice as he will mince your opponents troops and hopefully claim the scalps of other enemy HQ choices

I just hope there is a limit on dedicated transport though, or you can see inqusition flying in multiple valks....

Most of my 500 point lists for C:SM are structured like this:

Minimal HQ
Full Tac Squad
5 man scout squad
+Fun unit+ (around 100 points)

Now, I've not done a 500 point list under the new codex, so take this with a grain of salt. I suspect my format would remain the same.

Unless I'm feeling like a tool, and plop a LR down on the table and see if you remembered to bring melta. Not that I've done that yet, but it filters across my mind every time this discussion comes up.

I intended this as a general topic, but, I will be using khorne csm then add daemons later.

The 2 lists I have currently are:

1: chaos lord - juggernaught, aobf, the 4++, meltabombs, mark of khorne
Berserkers(10) - icon of wrath, lightning claw, meltabombs
Csm(5) - plasmagun, mok, melta bombs

2: chaos lord - MoK, Lightning claw, meltabombs
Berserkers(10)
Csm(5) - plasma gun, mok
Csm(5) - plasma gun, mok

I dont have the lists on me so forgive lack of point values

We can change the roster at 1000

The second list looks better just due to higher model count. At this points level, I imagine a Chaos lord would be a pretty decent solo unit, so maybe drop the MOK on the CSM squads (Not that useful on 5-man squads) and buy him a Jump Pack or Bikes and you've got a nice flying/riding choppy guy.

 Nevelon wrote:
Most of my 500 point lists for C:SM are structured like this:

Minimal HQ
Full Tac Squad
5 man scout squad
+Fun unit+ (around 100 points)

This is actually a solid build for 500p
My usual guidelines:
1. Cheapish force-multiplying HQ (Sorcerer?)
2. Somewhat good troop choice that is durable, versatile. Goes with the HQ (regular Chaos Marines with MoN maybe?)
3. Extremely cheap troop choice to camp at home objective (5 marines/10 Cultists)
4. Surprise! Fill some random unit in here, as said before. Heldrake? Well, if you want to be extreme. Otherwise maybe a LR or Oblies?
Then you can fill the squads with uprgades.

Lord with MoN, PW, 4++
Plague Marines
5 CSM, Heavy Bolter
Heldrake

Not sure of the points but something like that would do.

500 pts competitive games are all about "hey-hey i brought a WK - let's see how u're gona kill it with u'r tacticals".

koooaei wrote:
500 pts competitive games are all about "hey-hey i brought a WK - let's see how u're gona kill it with u'r tacticals".

Pretty much this.

erm...gravguns?

Chaos gravgunz? Anywayz, i wasn't talking bout smth in particular. I was talking bout the idea of bringing a cheezy unit that can't be dealt with unless tailored (or can't be dealt with at all if u're playing certain races due to the lack of firepower/bodies on such format).

The important thing to do in a 500 point list is to bring something that can't be dealt with by the average unit: a flyer (or multiple flyers), an AV 14 tank/big MC, or a giant horde. It's a game of rock/paper/scissors since no list can possibly counter all three of those threats, and few can counter even one of them with redundancy. If you win the R/P/S match of "can you counter my unit" your big threat can just run around massacring everything without any real chance of retaliation.

Since you're working within a limit of HQ and troops only that means Necrons or Inquisition with their dedicated transport flyers.

In all games of 500 points(I used to play them in leagues every week for years) I have played in there were major restrictions to prevent much of what you guys are talking about. Most recent games I have been in had the following. Oh and when the power gamers get out of hand and ruin the fun for everyone else, you might bring these rules up.
-No flyers or vehicles with more than a 12 front facing armor. (Necrons could not use those shields to get around the rule)
-No Psychic powers(exception being GK squads)
-Nothing with more than 2 wounds or a 2+ save(Nid Warriors were allowed)
HQ 0-1, Troops 1-2, elites, fa and hs 0-1. + one free swing slot to use for any of them.

I went to a 500 point tournament and I brought this as IG-

CCS
Vet squad 2x Melta/ Chimera
Vet squad 2x Plasma/ Chimera
Leman Russ Battle Tank

I won 3/5 games, one loss was against daemons who brought that AV13 walker thing.

Second loss was against Space wolves due to some ol' bs, the guy cheated I found out later. He took a wolf priest in terminator armor, some wolf Tac Marines and a squad of long fangs with missile launchers. He got this power on his wolf priest from the book that was this strength 10 ap 1 shooting attack, but he resolved it as an instant hit with like 48'' range. Its supposed to be a blast so it could have scattered, and he made every single 5+ invuln save on this black die he used to roll for his wolf priest when I tried to melta it in the face 3 turns in a row.

Col. Dash wrote:
In all games of 500 points(I used to play them in leagues every week for years) I have played in there were major restrictions to prevent much of what you guys are talking about. Most recent games I have been in had the following. Oh and when the power gamers get out of hand and ruin the fun for everyone else, you might bring these rules up.
-No flyers or vehicles with more than a 12 front facing armor. (Necrons could not use those shields to get around the rule)
-No Psychic powers(exception being GK squads)
-Nothing with more than 2 wounds or a 2+ save(Nid Warriors were allowed)
HQ 0-1, Troops 1-2, elites, fa and hs 0-1. + one free swing slot to use for any of them.

That makes it imposible for nids to participate since there is no Hq with 2 or less wounds

Annyways my last list:

Tervigon, Toxin, catalyst
Tervigon, Toxin,
10x Termagaunts
Hiveguard
Biovore

HQ isn't required at 500 points. Its effectively a combat patrol with sergeants leading the force. Nids do have an exception that allows them to bring warriors for synapse purposes.

whenever i build a list i always look at the overall theme of the army. i try to keep to that. but i also look at how well it can handle the other side of the table. at 500 pts, hq/troops only what you can and should exect to see:

- about 20 or so infantry models. maybe more, perhaps less. either way, you need a way to deal with 20 odd 3+ average save troops. necron warriors, marines, gaurd, gaunts, etc. there might be a more compact terminater style army, such as a GK pally list, or DA, or you might see a blob force with a ton of gaurdsmen or orc boys.
- possibility of transports like rhinos and razorbacks, and in the case of necrons fliers. some form of anti tank would be very useful. with marnies, you can achieve this with missiles and meltas, combat squad and go... grab an aegis line, etc.
- you also need a way to win. so securing objectives. that means at 500pts your troops have to deal with killing off the other guys troops, while still surviving. with meq armies small 5 man squads can work, but you need alot of them. what matters is boots on the ground. 10 marines across 2 troops slots, and a beefed up commander might kill the other guy with your big scary boss... but if he can keep 1 guy alive on an objective, and remove yours - he wins.

with your 500 pt list above - your 2 lords will beat face... but they are also gonna draw out ALL the incoming fire the other guy has to offer. you're betting that your speedy lords can close and chop up the other guy before they can shoot you down. risky... not impossible but risky.

i would suggest:
- pick one HQ and keep him simple. give him a job, and dont worry about tricks or whatnot. hes there for chopping infantry up, and is already BAMF. dosent need a ton of toys here.
- 2 x 10 man squads of marines. grab your heavy weapons and special weapons, i dont know if chaos can combat squad, if they cant, then i suggest a 10 man and maybe 2-3 5 man units. this way you have one large unit and a few smaller ones for harrasment and other jobs. try to fit in at least 2 missile launchers, and 2 plasma/melta. i wouldnt go much in the way of seargents, they tend to be less then impressive. if you have the points, a rhino or razorback. at the very least it can block line of sight, and it can also provide a nice source of heavy weapon.

other then that.. looking foward to seeing what you bring. i'm dealing with my own dilema of stuff to grab,as my enclave list go about 4 diffierent ways at this point. and im a total newb with tau... so it should be fun!

I suspect the nastiest 500pt list is Inquisitorial with three Valkyries. No army can beat that much flier at 500pts and you have a few points to make one of the henchman squads decently durable so you don't get shot off the table turn one. The other two can be 3 scoring henchment in the Valks so you have one decoy and two for lategame objectives, all being well you'll have eaten everything they have by lategame.

If I was playing Eldar at 500 points I would take an Autarch with a fusion gun and 2x 20 Guardians with two Shuricannons each. 45 bodies, good firepower and you can deal with just about anything with some lucky rolls. Only probem is if you run into like 2 thunderfires.

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
I suspect the nastiest 500pt list is Inquisitorial with three Valkyries. No army can beat that much flier at 500pts and you have a few points to make one of the henchman squads decently durable so you don't get shot off the table turn one. The other two can be 3 scoring henchment in the Valks so you have one decoy and two for lategame objectives, all being well you'll have eaten everything they have by lategame.

And that is exactly why you don't play 500 points without restrictions. For what is supposed to be a light combat patrol, you end up with power gaming madness and extreme rock paper scissors.

yea im gllad the league has ruled against that kind of BS.. although my theroy... if a guy has to win THAT badley at 500pts...hes gonna get the win. im even gonna be super nice and save the trouble and hassle of rolling dice before hand. since i think a escalation league should be more about developing a style and learning a newer army, rather then powergaming to a win and the prize. sometimes a list is created that sort of is a crazy power list.. but when that happens as a side effect to following a theme or style, and with a new army... well then thats kind of cool to watch.

At 500pts, we would usually use a variation of the 40kin40min rules back from 4th ed I think. (low armour, no 2+saves, low wounds etc)
But yeah as the others have said, if its just about winning those games, bring something they cant easily deal with. Or cheat, bribe and threaten
In an escalation, I guess it could be fun to gradually lessen those restrictions until finally you end up with apocalypse on ´roids

For 500 points you normally do this:
Cheap HQ, probably melee specialist
2-4 cheap troops
1-2 Light vehicle (razorback, 2x chimera, ect)
2-3 sources of AT/mid str shooting

Normally you want to specialize melee or shooting. Combination lists just get picked off too easily since you only have a few models performing each task. 12"+ Move are very good here since there might not be enough firepower to get them off the board before they can get into melee. Deepstriking is also effective since even if everyone turns around and shoots them, you can probably keep some assault terminators alive for the next turn.