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im wondering on any general tips that a tau enclave list can use to counter and fend off a thousands sons chaos list.

the main questions: what are the biggest threats this particular chaos force offers? - how is it best avoided/cuntered?
and does the army in general have any weakness?

i know they like their sorcs, and they LOVE div/telepathy...but not much else.

does the army work well with screamerstar? should i expect to see a screamerstar allied with a thousand sons army?

thanks!

Thousand Sons are generally held to be one of the weakest armies in the game so I wouldn't panic just yet. They have a couple of tricks and then pay out the nose for them.

AP3 Bolters
This is their party trick, they spew out Rapid-Fire AP3. Obvious point here is to stick to cover where you can and the whole package is made redundant. It really is that straightforward. Ideally prevent him from getting within 12" but it can be shrugged off with a bit of terrain.

4+ Invulnerable Saves
Their second big trick. Once again, simplest method is to avoid paying for low-AP weaponry and stick to throwing wounds at them. Missiles are preferred to Plasma, Flamers to Fusion etc.

Psychic sergeant
Relax, he's a dud. He has no access to any good Disciplines and is stuck generating Witchfires from Tzeentch. He is basically a glorified special weapons guy with a silly price increase. However, avoid close combat with the guy since he has a Force Weapon and can inflict Instant Death.

Other than that, they are Init1, Slow & Purposeful Marines that cost twice as much. They are pretty horrible and I can't imagine you'll struggle.
- Stick to cover or keep them at range
- Avoid wasting low-AP weaponry
- Kill the Rhino if they take one, then you can relax as they crawl at snails pace
- Precision Fire the Sorcerer if you can

The real concern will be any Heldrakes he takes in support, or Daemonic allies. Also be aware that if he likes to use Ahriman then he can Infiltrate his infantry on top of you.

Generally speaking, people that play Thousand Sons like Tzeentch, and collect Tzeentch-related models. Like Screamers, and Heralds, and various other Disc-related daemons. They also really like painting the color blue, which likewise increases the likelihood of these things appearing. So the chances of someone with a Thousand Sons list having the means to include a screamerstar in their lists is pretty high.

However, generally speaking once again, people who are actively and willingly fielding a straight Thousand Sons themed list are doing so at a purposeful handicap and are probably more interested in their army theme and its fluff than beating your Tau dudes by any means necessary. The superbuild of the month turbo-boosting up the field and making your crisis suits sad pandas is a doubtful scenario.

Anyway you'll never see that because screamerstar takes a bunch of heralds, and you can only field one if they're an ally. Also, screamerstar is a silly name for that combo when Starscream is right there and ready to be used.

As far as Thousand Son shenanigans, yeah take out their transports and they're slowly trudging towards you all game. They might stick their dudes in Land Raiders though. They might stick three squads of Thousand Sons in Land Raiders and charge up the field at you and engage all your mans in vicious hand to hand combat.

It's more likely they'll stick to rhinos and close range shooting though. The Sorcerers will indeed be casting all sorts of nonsense at you, with a bunch of obligatory Tzeentch powers that aren't all that great. Don't put your guys in lines to avoid the beam'o'death, don't bunch em up to avoid the smallblast'o'death, and you should be okay on that front. The rest is just what's in the big book. They can't take Divination for some sad reason so no ignoring cover to combo with the ap3 bolters, just keep your important guys squatting in the undergrowth.

Hi, I play Thousand Sons with a mini-star, so I may be able to offer some insight.. but everyone here has pretty much covered it already.

The mini-star is not as powerful as full on Screamerstar/council. If he has one, whatever you do, don't shoot it when the 2++ is up. He will rely on you wasting fire on it in order to save his Rhinos. When it's not up, try to eat it with Submunitions if they are packed close together. If the 2++ Screamerstar only has 2-3 Screamers in it, charge them. Yep, charge 'em. Probably with Suits. Better yet, definitely with suits. He might not even have good powers since he only has one Herald. I wouldnt worry about screamers.

Rhinos are priority targets. Once the Thousand Sons are dismounted, don't worry about their characters- make them eat Pulse Rifles. Try to hit on a 2+, and you will absolutely wreck them. "Oh you are paying 23pts for an Invulerable Save? Cool, take 15 armor saves on those 9 guys".

Remember that Burst Cannons and flamers are better than plasma against the Tsons, but that means you're close. Don't forget that they can Rapid Fire at AP3 and then charge because they are Relentless via S&P.

Message me if I can help more.

 DarthSpader wrote:
im wondering on any general tips that a tau enclave list can use to counter and fend off a thousands sons chaos list.

the main questions: what are the biggest threats this particular chaos force offers? - how is it best avoided/cuntered?
and does the army in general have any weakness?

i know they like their sorcs, and they LOVE div/telepathy...but not much else.

does the army work well with screamerstar? should i expect to see a screamerstar allied with a thousand sons army?

thanks!

Humerously enough, whilst the fluff goes on about divination (Ahriman being a master diviner), they can't use divination xD. They are restricted to telepathy (the psychic scream), biomancy, pyromancy, and must always take one from the tzeentch psyker table which is considered one of the worst if not THE worst psyker table of all (Oh the cruel bittersweet twist of fate).

As others have mentioned, if it is a TS list, they are purposefully playing with two arms chopped off and two legs for good measure. If you get within range (and you don't have 2+ saves or high invulns or can't find 4+ cover), your guys will be ripped apart by S4 AP3 bolter shots. It's just a buffed bolter gun so as long as you don't let them within 12 inches you can just continue to giggle and laugh at them. They are incredibly slow so a mobile army (presume battlesuits would go this way) will do magic against them. Avoid wasting melta shots and the sorts upon them and you will be golden. As mentioned, the Helldrakes and daemon allies are far more terrifying. LoC can be extremely devestating, a horde of pink horrors led by a herald can bring enough vollies of magic to cripple most units, screamers can rip apart machines, and, whilst it is incredibly inferior to that of the screamerstar, they can still construct a ministar. Just ignore them when the 2++ is a success. They are bound to fail without fateweaver on the field at some point.

Ahriman himself is an oddity. If you fail your denys horridly and he passes all of his test, he can slaughter your force. That being said, he's still only T4 Sv3+/4++ meaning you can still pick them off and he'll likely fail one save eventually whilst costing a land raider. More importantly, he provides d3 infiltrate meaning he can actually get those TS closer.

All in all, if you try to build to counter you will likely curb stomp the guy/gal.

GW like mixing Fate and Irony. It's fluffy I guess.

Is there a chance for a mini-dex or a Black Legion style spin off for the 1k sons? Maybe a cult-dex that covers the 4 main powers?

 Red Marine wrote:
Is there a chance for a mini-dex or a Black Legion style spin off for the 1k sons? Maybe a cult-dex that covers the 4 main powers?

Red Marine, it would be best to create a general discussion post rather then ask such a question on tactics. That being said, there is quite a possible chance. Whether it will be good or not is questionable but it is very likely to come out sometime in the future (many guess around the time of the SW release)

 Red Marine wrote:
Is there a chance for a mini-dex or a Black Legion style spin off for the 1k sons? Maybe a cult-dex that covers the 4 main powers?

The chance exists, but as the core problems lie within the Thousand Sons unit itself a supplement is unlikely to fix them.

Cool. I am a touch worried about a loc showin up, but I think I have enough suits and missiles I should be able to deal. Another question:

I have a pair of 3 man crisis teams. Wich combo is better?n(for Tsons and as a tac list)

3x burst/burst bunch of gun drones
Plasma/plasma

The burst and fusion/fusion/cfd

Or the fusion/plasma ?

I do have stealth suits for burst cannon support, and a 5 man team should be able to put out a nice number of shots.

Thanks again

Tac? Probably plasma/fusion. There are more armies that hate that setup than more armies that will laugh it off (ie: thousand sons). Plus, if you can ground the lord of change (easy, without Fateweaver), just shoot plasma and fusion at it because he is toughness 6.. So no burstcannons/flamer there, even though burstcannons/flamer is probably best against the actual tsons troops.. Know what I mean?

I would spam as much 2+ armor as possible and just hide Crisis suits for objectives. I'm talking 3 Riptides, 6 Broadsides, and an allied buff commander.

Lucarikx

um lol sorry i dont think i made my last post clear:

option 1:
3x crisis, ea w/ fusion, fusion, CFD
3x crisis ea w/ plasma/plasma

option 2
3x crisis, ea w/ fusion, fusion, CFD
3x crisis ea w/ burst cannon / burst cannon, 2 gun drones (1 with drone controller

option 3
3x crisis ea w/ burst cannon / burst cannon, 2 gun drones (1 with drone controller
3x crisis ea w/ plasma/plasma

seems option 1 is the best for taking down obivous vehicles/meq... but im curious about that burst cannon setup. i see it used alot, and on paper it puts a good ton of fire out. downside seems to be that its range is short, and it cant deal with 2+ armor very well. where as the plasma can... but in my head:
6 plasma rapid fire 12 shots with marker support. so 9hit, and then 7 wound, no cover so 7 meq dead.
burst cannons (with same marker support) 24 shots + 12 more from drones = 17ish hits, +8 drone hits, for 9+5 wounds, and 3+1 failed saves. but utility vrs horde is much more effective, being able to shred things like orcs, gaurd, nids, and so on.... so i wonder.

@ lucarikx - im planning broadsides, riptides etc. but my army is following a theme, and that theme says no SC, allies, vehicles, foot infantry or vehicles. only suits and drones, so an allied buffmander is out.

why this theme? - i have played a TON of games over many years with super winning cheese armies, and engaged in "escalation" cold war style gaming with my group for too long. its at the point now where i get tired of trying to dream up the next all powerful counter, so our group has decided to do away with that, and just pick themes to play instead. mine is a enclave commander, who like farsight is a touch of a renegade and radical thinker. he places a lot of value on fast redeployment, and belives that vehicles are too large and too slow, and foot infantry are simply too vulnerable, and besides, drones do the same job almost as well, and can keep pace with the suits.

my questions about the thousands sons here, are mainly because ive never foght them before and i like to know a bit about the army im facing beofre i do so. i likley wont change my list around JUST to counter and fight them directly. but knowing what they do and the general modus operendi goes a long way in putting up a respectable fight in a game.

 DarthSpader wrote:
6 plasma rapid fire 12 shots with marker support. so 9hit, and then 7 wound, no cover so 7 meq dead.
burst cannons (with same marker support) 24 shots + 12 more from drones = 17ish hits, +8 drone hits, for 9+5 wounds, and 3+1 failed saves.

Just remember in the case of Tsons they get a 4++.

So the math ends up much closer, only you don't need as much marker light support and you can skirt at 18 inches instead of having to be in rapid fire range.