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I want to give a pure infantry IG a try and I've been building a list torwards it. Currently I have the list at 1160 pts with 4 infantry platoons (150 bodies aprox). Before I take the list to 2000pts I want to try it at 1500pts and wwas thinking about adding a veteran squad with triple melta. Now the idea would be to either infiltrate or outflank them with Harker or hide them in between the mass of infantry and take advantage of Bastonne's order.
What would be the best option?
M.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/13 08:52:11
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
Harker is your only option. Without a transport vets have no chance of getting to their target before they die. Outflanking with Harker at least improves that to a small chance of success. But what you really want is a Vendetta for those vets.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
koooaei wrote:U can't hide noone in the mass of infantry. Max what it's gona get is 5+ cover save.
Yeah it's kind of a lame cover save but what I really meant as hidding was that I hope (one can dream ) that among the multitude of bodies to kill a less observant opponent might miss 10 veterans
Peregrine wrote:Harker is your only option. Without a transport vets have no chance of getting to their target before they die. Outflanking with Harker at least improves that to a small chance of success. But what you really want is a Vendetta for those vets.
Well a Vendetta would go against the spirit of a pure infantry army, wouldn't it?
Would it be worth the risk of infiltrating them with Harker to try for a 1st turn kill against a tasty target or better to hide them out of LoS for later?
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
Miguelsan wrote: Yeah it's kind of a lame cover save but what I really meant as hidding was that I hope (one can dream ) that among the multitude of bodies to kill a less observant opponent might miss 10 veterans
Expecting your opponent to do something stupid is rarely a good strategy.
Well a Vendetta would go against the spirit of a pure infantry army, wouldn't it?
That depends on how strictly you define "pure infantry" and how much you don't mind losing. Absolute 100% no vehicles allowed infantry IG is a terrible army. You can have lots of infantry on the table, but you need the tanks and aircraft to have any chance of success.
Would it be worth the risk of infiltrating them with Harker to try for a 1st turn kill against a tasty target or better to hide them out of LoS for later?
Not likely. You have to deploy 18" away, so you won't be in melta range turn 1 unless your opponent moves a unit up to meet them, and deploying them out in front of your army just means they get slaughtered immediately. If you want to use Harker you outflank them and hope you can catch something near the side of the table.
But, again, neither choice of deployment is very good and you really want a Vendetta instead. Outflanking is just the least bad of your options.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/13 10:40:42
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
If it was not 100% infantry I wouldn't be saying "pure infantry" And I don't care about lossing as this is an experiment on what can I do with IG not a tournament army.
Further question if taking Harker is it worth to go for Demolition doctrine or better save the points?
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
If going Harker (the best option I think) then make sure to buy Camo Cloaks. They have been FAQ'ed to work with his Stealth rule, giving you a 2+ save in ruins or behind a barricade.
I'd probably outflank, and go with plasma over melta. Longer reach and more shots wins out for me, leave the tank-busting to the lascannon-toting infantry squads.
If Bastoone could go in a Stormtrooper squad (Which his fluff and rules seem to suggest was where he was originally intended), he'd be fine, but as it stands, you could buy another CCS to get 2 bonus orders for anyone, rather than 1 bonus for one squad.
So, you're going to be running an infantry force, which means CCSs and PCSs. That means you should already have as many orders as you need. Bastonne only gives you something that you already have enough of.
This makes harker the better choice as he can give things your army won't already have. Like an outflanking scoring unit, or a super-durable-in-cover objective anchor when you give his unit camo-cloaks (which stacks with harker's stealth). Or even as simple as being able to deploy that BS4 lascannon last after your opponent is done deploying.
Of the two, you're likely going to get more use out of Harker. Bastonne is really only useful in lists where your veterans are unlikely to be in range of an officer giving orders, like in the case of a mech list, or especially in the case of vets air-dropping out of a valkyrie far away from the rest of your army.
Paradigm wrote: If going Harker (the best option I think) then make sure to buy Camo Cloaks. They have been FAQ'ed to work with his Stealth rule, giving you a 2+ save in ruins or behind a barricade.
Thanks for pointing that out. That's what I get for forgeting that once on a blue moon GW puts a FAQ out. I thought it did not stack
Unfortunately the plasma and LasCan sugesstions are not doable, this army is being built trying to fit all the miniatures I have in and I'm out of plasma and cannons. All I have left to build are mortar and HBs and for now I'm not going to buy more HWsGW Japan is really expensive I could shoehorn in another cheap platoon tho.
M.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/13 23:55:15
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
Scratchbuild the lascannons and plasmaguns. You can easily google a few tutorials for plasmaguns or find the plasmaguns on ebay.
Lascannons really only need a box with a long shaft glued to it with a thicker cylinder on the end. Stick that on a rock and have a guy sit/stand, whatever with it.
A tactic would be Al'Rahem, Chenkov and Creed working together. (Make sure you have an astropath)
Take Al'rahem with a huge platoon and maxed conscripts with SITNW. (Special Weapon Squads are nice here)
Take Chenkov with a blob of 50 guys.
Outflank Al'rahem's platoon like usual, use Creed to outflank the blob, and have chenkov at the ready to re-summon conscripts which, if I am not mistaken, can re-outflank each time they are summoned by Chenkov.
Chenkov-Platoon takes HWTs, provided pressure from your board edge while Al'rahem comes in from the side with special weapon teams with weapons like meltas and plasmas to strike from close range. Then use FRFSRF and Bring it Down ALL over the place.
WOOPS:
Outflank Harker with them as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/14 07:22:03
I'd look into special weapon squads instead of veterans to be honest. They're cheaper than the vets and because you can have more of them, you can afford to lose a few squads. If your infantry squads run with a plasma or melta gun too, the opponent doesn't always fire on the SWS if its in cover, instead, shooting at the IS to get more kills. Both units pose a semi-decent threat but the SWS concentrate that firepower a little bit more to take on tougher opponents such as tanks.
Statistically, you will almost certainly die when assaulting a well-maintained fortress with a competent commander. You must strive to make your death useful.
Your foe is well equipped, well-trained, battle-hardened. He believes his gods are on his side. Let him believe what he will. We have the tanks on ours.
I hate last stands, there's never time to practise them - Major Rawne - Tanith First
A point on the conscripts outflanking. If you look at the FAQ, they ask what happens when you have outflanking conscripts with SitNW (a la al rahem). The answer, and I'm not joking here, is "we don't know, so you and your opponent should 4+ it".
Naturally, any strategy that only has a 50% chance of having the rules even work in any given game is a little risky for my tastes...
Ailaros wrote: A point on the conscripts outflanking. If you look at the FAQ, they ask what happens when you have outflanking conscripts with SitNW (a la al rahem). The answer, and I'm not joking here, is "we don't know, so you and your opponent should 4+ it".
Naturally, any strategy that only has a 50% chance of having the rules even work in any given game is a little risky for my tastes...
Though, isn't running pure infantry IG risky anyways?
Besides, they are only conscripts. If you can only bring them onto your own board edge, because you lose the coin-flip, then that is a small blow if any. You can still use the conscripts to claim your own board edge and what-not indefinitely.
I found that putting harkers unit with camo, a las cannon and maybe a flamer or two behind an ADL with a commissar lord attached makes for a VERY reliable sponge unit. They can soak up a lot of shots and snipe out effectively. The lord makes you rarely miss on the gun and helps that unit plua all others nearby stand firm for the most part.
bastonne seems to me to be one of those cool characters they toss in that just never sees actual action.
if your just looking for an outflanking scoring unit, I would use a penal legion squad for that. Much cheaper, odd cool rules that may or may not help, easy to hunker down to claim linebreaker/claim an odd objective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/14 21:43:15
clively wrote: "EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)
Deceiver wrote:I'd look into special weapon squads instead of veterans to be honest. They're cheaper than the vets and because you can have more of them, you can afford to lose a few squads. If your infantry squads run with a plasma or melta gun too, the opponent doesn't always fire on the SWS if its in cover, instead, shooting at the IS to get more kills. Both units pose a semi-decent threat but the SWS concentrate that firepower a little bit more to take on tougher opponents such as tanks.
I don't know about this, a SWS with melta is 65 pts, for 35 extra points you get 4 more bodies to protect the special weapons, an increase in LD and much better chance to hit.
Ailaros wrote:A point on the conscripts outflanking. If you look at the FAQ, they ask what happens when you have outflanking conscripts with SitNW (a la al rahem). The answer, and I'm not joking here, is "we don't know, so you and your opponent should 4+ it".
Naturally, any strategy that only has a 50% chance of having the rules even work in any given game is a little risky for my tastes...
Ailaros wrote: Though, isn't running pure infantry IG risky anyways?
Besides, they are only conscripts. If you can only bring them onto your own board edge, because you lose the coin-flip, then that is a small blow if any. You can still use the conscripts to claim your own board edge and what-not indefinitely.
Weeeeell... I want to take this army to 2000pts so talk about risk, I might go crazy painting
M.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/17 08:24:51
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
Deceiver wrote:I'd look into special weapon squads instead of veterans to be honest. They're cheaper than the vets and because you can have more of them, you can afford to lose a few squads. If your infantry squads run with a plasma or melta gun too, the opponent doesn't always fire on the SWS if its in cover, instead, shooting at the IS to get more kills. Both units pose a semi-decent threat but the SWS concentrate that firepower a little bit more to take on tougher opponents such as tanks.
I don't know about this, a SWS with melta is 65 pts, for 35 extra points you get 4 more bodies to protect the special weapons, an increase in LD and much better chance to hit.
Ailaros wrote:A point on the conscripts outflanking. If you look at the FAQ, they ask what happens when you have outflanking conscripts with SitNW (a la al rahem). The answer, and I'm not joking here, is "we don't know, so you and your opponent should 4+ it".
Naturally, any strategy that only has a 50% chance of having the rules even work in any given game is a little risky for my tastes...
Ailaros wrote: Though, isn't running pure infantry IG risky anyways?
Besides, they are only conscripts. If you can only bring them onto your own board edge, because you lose the coin-flip, then that is a small blow if any. You can still use the conscripts to claim your own board edge and what-not indefinitely.
Weeeeell... I want to take this army to 2000pts so talk about risk, I might go crazy painting
M.
Might want to edit that post. toward the end. The quotation is totally backwards mate but it does seem like a dakka-bug. (Happened to me too when I tried to quote you)
I wonder how Bastonne would ever be useful. Kill team? A stand-alone unit?
cheers,
DaK
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/17 02:11:21
Perhaps with Vets in a Valk. Deploy near enemy vehicles, use orders to blow them up and then use his special rules to try hiding instead of running away?
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
) that among the multitude of bodies to kill a less observant opponent might miss 10 veterans 
I could shoehorn in another cheap platoon tho.
Statistically, you will almost certainly die when assaulting a well-maintained fortress with a competent commander. You must strive to make your death useful. 
Your foe is well equipped, well-trained, battle-hardened. He believes his gods are on his side. Let him believe what he will. We have the tanks on ours. 
'); 3,000 pointsjavascript:emoticon('
');
2,000 points 
265 point detachment
Iron Hands: 1,850 
More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)
but it does seem like a dakka-bug. (Happened to me too when I tried to quote you)