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which is better point for point?

on what, and against what.

I'm no veteran mind you but I prefer the mark of slaanesh for the added initiative. Also if the champ with this mark turns it a demon prince, it has an added 3" to it's movement. Plus its just better to hit first in my opinion.

I'd do neither. Khorne berzerkers are better than MoK CSM and noise marines are better than MoS CSM, and both types of god warrior can be made as troops.

Unless, of course, you're hurting for points or something, in which case, I'd take MoS. It costs the same to give you dudes an extra close combat weapon as it is to give them MoK, and MoK only gives them +1 A on the first round of combat. No need to bother with a mark when there is a better piece of wargear that duplicates it.

For Raptors, take the Mark of Slaanesh. For Terminators with Lightning Claws, take the Mark of Slaanesh. For a Chaos Lord, always take the Mark of Khorne and the Axe of Blind Fury. Always.

Winged Daemon Princes of Slaanesh are pretty good, but the Mark of Tzeentch is, at least to me, an auto-take.

On plain marines, Nurgle is really the best mark.

In a lot of ways, this is Codex: Nurgle. Luckily Nurgle's always been my favorite god, so I lucked out

Personally it seems like you'd make more of the mark of khorne since you'll almost always get the extra attack(s) which you can get mileage out of whereas the initiative increase from the MoS only comes in handy against marines+eldar. And the stuff you're scared of in combat will likely strike before you anyways (Harlequins, Genestealers, Banshees, Incubi). Also both require you to be in combat to utilize it properly either way so neither are particularly an optimal mark.

I've always felt there was a big discrepancy when it came to marks particularly with how they scaled from rank and file CSM to Chaos Lords and how some really don't come into their own until they are at higher levels of the force organization chart like the MoT only being useful in the context of characters wanting a 3++.

I think what they should have done was create two levels of Marks; Greater and Lesser. Lesser marks would be given to the rank and file like CSM and Cultists with about the same benefits with the exception of the MoT instead allowing units to re-roll failed armour save rolls of 1 rather than the nigh useless 6++ save.

Greater Marks of chaos would incorporate previous buffs of the lesser marks (so +1T for nurgle, counter-attack/rage for Khorne, etc.) with the buffs provided exclusively from the Greater Marks.

The Greater Mark of Khorne would give +1WS or +1S alongside Rage/Counterattack. The Greater Mark of Nurgle would give FNP. The Greater Mark of Tzzentch would provide the typical +1 to your invuln. save alongside the re-rolling of 1's for armour saves so it can make units like Tzzentch Terminators be competitive alongside Nurgle ones or Thousand Sons to be more resilient like in the fluff. The Greater Mark of Slaanesh would give something like Fleet or Hit and Run alongside the initiative boost.

This way you could create approximate versions of cult terminators while also making marks on Chaos HQ choices and elites that much more deadly and by extension worth it to give them the edge over loyalist's chapter tactics even if you have to pay for it.

MoS allows the Lord to hit before any human HQ. Keep in mind you have to challenge, so this buys you superiority over Chapter Masters and basic Eldar. You strike at the same time as Eldar HQ's also, so no dying without doing work from a Banshee Exarch or Autarch.

MoK is +1 attack. By comparison, the Black mace is 3x as expensive, and gives you +D6 attacks.

The other point is the troops it unlocks. Bezerkers are an all around miss. Expensive, not all that much better than CSM with the marks and banner. Assault troops generally bad in 6th, and expensive ones almost all terrible.

Noise Marines have great firepower for small squads, are fearless and have decent HtH potential with the I5.

Lord with MoS has access to the FnP banner, and a lord on a bike is the best loadout IMO, and the banner on a squad of bikers is just fierce.

So... yeah, MoS 100%.

Caveat: Axe of Blind Fury on a Juggerlord will eat things. Lots and lots of things. Give him some spawn to go with, best combined with a flying DP to force some serious choices to be made early and often. Ally with a BT and your opponent has very few good options. Except MSS. Otherwise it's pretty overwhelming.

greg0985 wrote:
In a lot of ways, this is Codex: Nurgle. Luckily Nurgle's always been my favorite god, so I lucked out

Spare a penny for someone whose favourite God is Tzeentch? :'c

cod3x wrote:
Caveat: Axe of Blind Fury on a Juggerlord will eat things. Lots and lots of things. Give him some spawn to go with, best combined with a flying DP to force some serious choices to be made early and often. Ally with a BT and your opponent has very few good options. Except MSS. Otherwise it's pretty overwhelming.

It's amazing. However, on my first 6th Edition game, my Juggerlord with the Axe of Blind Fury wiped out a Terminator squad and promptly turned into a Daemon Prince. It was made worse by him having Terminator armour - the only parts of my Codex I had with me were a couple of printed sheets of essential rules (like the Chaos Boon table), so I didn't know that a mount prevents Terminator armour. He never had to make a single armour save!

cod3x wrote:MoK is +1 attack. By comparison, the Black mace is 3x as expensive, and gives you +D6 attacks.

That's not exactly a fair comparison, though. The mace gives you +1A, but it also gives you +2S, Ap4, and the curse of the black mace aura.

The real problem with MoK is that they nerfed it from +1A to +1A only on the first turn of close combat, and unless you multi-assault, and unless your opponent has defensive grenades, etc.

Totally depends on the models the mark is being applied to.

MoS + IoE for bikers, raptors, chosen and anything else you want to survive their first assault. Generally, my rule is that anything that is not scoring needs to have slightly better staying power in order to keep my scoring units from getting into cc.

MoK for CSMs, cultists, sometimes for chosen, and only when I plan on using them in assault. With lower costing units, I don't care if they survive an assault, but I want them to weaken the other unit to the point where anything else can clean up against them.

 Ailaros wrote:

cod3x wrote:MoK is +1 attack. By comparison, the Black mace is 3x as expensive, and gives you +D6 attacks.

That's not exactly a fair comparison, though. The mace gives you +1A, but it also gives you +2S, Ap4, and the curse of the black mace aura.

Don't forget the fleshbane, my Eldar friend certainly won't in the future!

On Topic: Neither mark, more bodies.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'd do neither. Khorne berzerkers are better than MoK CSM and noise marines are better than MoS CSM, and both types of god warrior can be made as troops.

Unless, of course, you're hurting for points or something, in which case, I'd take MoS. It costs the same to give you dudes an extra close combat weapon as it is to give them MoK, and MoK only gives them +1 A on the first round of combat. No need to bother with a mark when there is a better piece of wargear that duplicates it.

This. If you're hurting for HQ slots you can work with regular troops, but a cheap lord with a mark unlocking cult marines as troops is just way too good to leave out of most lists. (But really "cheap X" are overrated, you should usually be beefing your lord up as a unit.)

I go with Slaanesh as not only do I like her aesthetic more than Khorne's, but with both Noise Marines and regular you also have the option to take a ccw. (An extra attack, AND +1 Int? Yes please.) Now if you want to get really nasty (if expensive) let's start talking about Icon of Excess...

I really like MoS, and I've been playing pure Slaaneshi Marines for a while.

Looking only at marks though MoK is better than MoS. Counter attack + rage gives a more consistant benefit than i5 which only really comes into play vs eldar and marines. As noted above. It should also be mentioned that i6 doesn't really help with lord vs chapter master due to artificer armour, 3++, and probably EW. Its staggering how much better loyalist wargear options are. I miss Blissgiver for that sweet i6 ap2 ID daemon weapon...

BUT, Slaanesh still pulls ahead because of it grants access to the Icon of Excess which is the best icon available, especially om larger squads or with attached characters. Noise Marines are also a bit better than Zerks due to the Sonic Weapons. Blast Masters, Doom Sirens, and even the humble Sonic Blaster all really shine in a game dominated by shooting and aegis lines- ignore cover anyone?

Both gods are weaker than Nurgle, but Slaanesh holds up a bit better than Khorne right now due to the unlocked options.

Neither. IMO Choas Marines are best kept bare, with maybe VotLW if you can spare the points. When you start purchasing chaos marks for them, you might as well just use the cult CSM in most cases.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Neither. IMO Choas Marines are best kept bare, with maybe VotLW if you can spare the points. When you start purchasing chaos marks for them, you might as well just use the cult CSM in most cases.

It depends on what I want that squad to do, I would definitely take Noise Marines if I wanted a shooty option but I prefer a cheap CSM squad with MoS (and flamers) as a counter assault unit...