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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/13 20:33:25
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Why Falcon? Because it has a carrying capacity of 6 models and I think 1 Farseer and 5 Warlocks are a snug fit.
Basically the configuration is like this:
Farseer (Spirit Stone of Anath'lan) + Warlocks, all armed with Singing Spears
Falcon with Brightlance, Pulse Laser and Shuriken Cannon, Holofields and Spiritstones
Total unit cost: 480 points.
So here we have a unit able to cast 8 psychic powers per turn. All of them are armed with S9 spears (good vs vehicles), accompanied by the 4+ cover save Falcon's own dual anti-tank weapons + S6 into rear of tanks if possible shuriken cannon.
On charge, the unit dishes out 18 fleshbane attacks at initiative 5, and there's a 50% chance (slightly higher since you get to re-roll if you rolled the same power twice) that your Farseer will have Fortune, so re-rollable 4+ invs all around.
Plus with all those Runes of Battle dual flexibility powers being cast around, I think you can beef your unit's ability to kingdom come or nerf an enemy unit to the point of guaranteed fall back.
Your guys would be protected from fire on their way to the enemy and can start dishing out the pain as early as turn 2 onward. What do you think?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/13 20:35:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/13 21:38:39
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Fireknife Shas'el
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It can be, but it isn't nearly as good as the jetbike version with the baron. In a falcon, they can't assault things, and the falcon will get blown up faster than the baron's re-rollable 2++ will, assuming you get fortune, which is what you should be rolling for anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/13 21:44:20
Subject: Re:How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Emboldened Warlock
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-No innate cover save from bikes to turbo boost
-No armor save to protect/jinx
-T3 instead of t4
-Only 50% chance of actually having fortune with one farseer
-Too slow to pull off assaults reliably
-Less chance to randomly debuff other units because you are in a transport. When you disembark, you're past the time when you're allowed to cast them.
They were not viable in 5th, they certainly aren't in 6th either.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/14 00:05:36
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
New Zealand
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It was probably more viable in 5th actually since you could assault out of the transport if it didn't move and you could set it up with certain powers without needing to roll. I occasionally used it as an anti horde unit in 5th, running 3-5 Warlocks in a Serpent (Falcons should ALWAYS have scoring units in them, they have very long range, you didn't want them up close in 5th - the same applies in 6th) with Destructor could make a big mess of infantry units. It also gave you a cheap way to get an extra Serpent.
But Nivoglibina covered it pretty well. Without Hit and Run they have no flexibility and they don't hit that hard. They drop to T4 without Jetbikes so they are just as easy to kill as Marines against small arms even when they have Fortune (4+ re-rollable is only slightly better than a 3+, but you are T3 so it evens out) and they lose out on the great cover saves they automatically get (Primaris Conceal). The biggest issue for me is that they should never be getting into assault they want to in the first place - assaulting out of vehicles was tricky for Eldar in 5th, but its basically impossible in 6th - there is no way this unit is going to either survive a full round of shooting in the open (+ Overwatch) at close range or not get intercepted by a blocking/tarpit/countercharge unit which keeps it away from anything valuable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/14 00:24:09
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Well technically if your Farseer rolls fortune and invisibility, it will stack on one of your warlock's primaris conceal, so you get re-rollable 3+ cover saves wherever you go.
My biggest gripe with the warlock council is that they did not get the ability to split fire, i.e. target multiple squads with different psychic powers. That should have made them an iconic Eldar unit, but nope.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/14 00:25:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/14 00:34:52
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Executing Exarch
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Invisibility doesn't "stack" with conceal. Conceal gives shrouded and invisibility gives shrouded + stealth. So you can get 4+ in cover the open.
The farseer has EXACTLY 50% chance to get any single power when rolling all out on a single table. (5/6*4/5*3/4=0.5)
Honestly this is a pretty bad combo in a number of ways. Most of which have been listed above.
The soulstone BTW actually makes your unit much worse as the farseer is going to be in melee without any save whatsoever.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/14 03:26:43
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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Unfortunately it's pretty awful.
Before you could at least know what you got and go for the flamer squad, but now it's a crap shoot. Also, most of the Warlock powers are pretty useless on them.
And if you want a unit that can wreck tanks, just take Fire Dragons instead.
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"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/14 05:32:47
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Foot council in a falcon is *probably* worse than howling banshees and that is saying a lot.. There are no viable foot based eldar assault units, period.
Warlocks on Jetbikes or Wraithknights are your only choices pretty much.. My 60ish banshee/scorpion aspect warriors cry every day :(
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/14 06:43:27
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Executing Exarch
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It depends on how you interpret the infiltrating IC with units rule. If the IC can infiltrate with a unit then the CWE actually have a fair number of perfectly viable foot based assault options...they are just totally overshadowed by the waveserpent, revenant titan, and jetseer council.
If not striking scorps are good just overshadowed by the same.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/15 01:43:44
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Agile Revenant Titan
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Well of course the real question is not if it's viable it's why are you taking a falcon instead if a wave serpent? The wave serpent is Cheaper, has more transort capacity, is better at surviving, and it has equal damage output. You can also fit 2 farseers and 10 warlocks into it, which still is a waste of points but is better.
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I do drugs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/15 11:00:24
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Basically the configuration is like this:
Farseer (Spirit Stone of Anath'lan) + Warlocks, all armed with Singing Spears
Falcon with Brightlance, Pulse Laser and Shuriken Cannon, Holofields and Spiritstones
Total unit cost: 480 points.
Well, not the best combo. If you want a shooting unit, take Fire Dragons. If you want a melee unit, mount them on jetbikes for increased mobility.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/15 22:57:30
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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The lack of AP or Force on witchblades makes them pretty lackluster. The fact that warlocks now have to roll for powers is pretty lame too, as is casting them on Ld8.
Also, armorbane on the blades is not very good with strength 3. You're still looking at 7+ for AV10. My farseer has whiffed many a time trying to use those weapons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/16 02:53:00
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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War Walker Pilot with Withering Fire
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Sir Arun wrote:Why Falcon? Because it has a carrying capacity of 6 models and I think 1 Farseer and 5 Warlocks are a snug fit.
Basically the configuration is like this:
Farseer (Spirit Stone of Anath'lan) + Warlocks, all armed with Singing Spears
Falcon with Brightlance, Pulse Laser and Shuriken Cannon, Holofields and Spiritstones
Total unit cost: 480 points.
So here we have a unit able to cast 8 psychic powers per turn. All of them are armed with S9 spears (good vs vehicles), accompanied by the 4+ cover save Falcon's own dual anti-tank weapons + S6 into rear of tanks if possible shuriken cannon.
On charge, the unit dishes out 18 fleshbane attacks at initiative 5, and there's a 50% chance (slightly higher since you get to re-roll if you rolled the same power twice) that your Farseer will have Fortune, so re-rollable 4+ invs all around.
Plus with all those Runes of Battle dual flexibility powers being cast around, I think you can beef your unit's ability to kingdom come or nerf an enemy unit to the point of guaranteed fall back.
Your guys would be protected from fire on their way to the enemy and can start dishing out the pain as early as turn 2 onward. What do you think?
I think this is a terrible idea. How many points did you just shell out for a 6 man unit that cannot actually cause any damage? Even with a 50% chance to get fortune, if you do get it, you can consider your save to be a 2.5++ save. Not exactly amazing, especially on a T3 model that will have to sit in the open before being able to charge in.
One idea that I had thought of, was taking a bunch of spiritseers (Iyanden) + a Farseer and dumping them into a unit. Say, 6 Scorpions w/ Claw Exarch + Serpent, or 20 guardians that can just march up the table. 5 Warlocks simply isn't enough rolls on Runes of Battle. Ld8 is sucky, and 5 powers isn't flexibility at all.
Finally. If you're taking a falcon, take a scatter laser to TL the Pulse Laser. Unless you're expecting to guide/prescience it, it's the much better choice.
Conceal does not stack with invisibility. They both grant shrouded.
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8,000 pts and counting
1,000 points, now painting. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/16 03:18:09
Subject: How viable is the oldskool Seer Council aboard a Falcon?
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Agile Revenant Titan
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Well ive run the 5 spirit sears with wraithgaurd, that was fun
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I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. |
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