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Hey there guys!

I'm about to enter my first tournament! I'm looking for any advice, however big or small.

Taking some of the comments into consideration, I'd love your thoughts on which list below is superior:

LIST A

Primary - Ultramarines

HQ - 170
- Captain w. bike, storm shield, artificier armour and powerfist.

Elites - 195
- 5 Sternguard w. 3 combi-meltas and 1 heavy flamer
- Drop Pod

Troops - 395
- 5 Bikes w. 2 grav-guns and a combi-grav

- 5 Tacs w. melta and combi-melta
- Drop Pod

- 5 Tacs w. melta and combi-melta
- Drop Pod

Allies - Raven Guard

HQ - 105
- Librarian w. lvl 2 mastery and jump pack.

Troops - 85
- 5 Tacs w. plasma cannon

Fast Attack - 200
- 10 ASM w. 2 flamers, sergeant w. power weapon and combat shield

Fortifications - 100
- Aegis Defense Line w. Quad Gun

LIST B


Primary - Ultramarines

HQ - 170
- Captain w. bike, storm shield, artificier armour and powerfist.

- Command squad w. bikes, 4 grav-guns, apothecary.

Elites - 195
- 5 Sternguard w. 3 combi-meltas and 1 heavy flamer
- Drop Pod

Troops - 560
- 5 Bikes w. 2 grav-guns

- 10 Tacs w. melta, plasma cannon and combi-melta
- Drop Pod

- 10 Tacs w. melta, missile launcher and combi-melta
- Drop Pod

Fortifications
- Aegis Defense Line w. Quad Gun

The basic differences are:
- List A has the lvl 2 librarian, 10 RG assault marines, RG chapter tactics on the plasma cannon squad and an extra combi-grav on the biker sergeant
- List B has the command squad and the extra 5 tacs w. missile launcher.

I feel both options have their pros and cons. The 5 extra tacs are a little superfluous in my opinion and personally I can see them not contributing much, but on the other hand in kill point games (1 out of 4 missions being played) it is a good advantage. The command squad is a nice unit, but so are 10 RG assault marines. I guess the main difference between them is that one is flexible and can take on hordes, TEQs or even tanks, whereas the ASM are just specialised at killing weak backfield units. Looking at the rest of my list, every other unit has some kind of high-strength, low-AP option in it. The librarian is the real wildcard, for me he's been my MVP almost every time I've taken him. His psychic shriek is just about the best thing against MC, and between that and puppet mastery / invisibility / hallucination, he has the potential for some big plays.

Again, any advice is appreciated

Sorry reading this gave me a headache could you change font colour on both (especially the black)

Haha, okay done.

Well, two HQs at this pt level is too much. I'd start with the CM, 5 Bikers, and 2x10 Tactical Marines as a core. In small pt games, you need numbers. Then you can expand from there. You need anti-air and anti-MC.

I would drop your ravenguard allies because their not doing much for you... You should take some more bikes with gravs for anti MC, and tact squads with melta gun and combi melta for anti tank.

Also if you have to keep the ravenguard why flamers for the ASM? Your killing the only guys within assault range.

The flamers on the ASM are there because they are crazy cheap, and can really soften up a unit before you charge, which can also protect you a bit from overwatch. Generally I've found that if you're in range to flame, even if you remove the first few enemies, you're still likely to be in charge range. Especially since RG always get to use their JPs.

Taking the suggestions into consideration (more grav bikes, full tac squads, no allies), I'll update the original post with a revised list. Please let me know what you think

Both are fine, but Ultrasmurf CT won't do you much good. Imperial Fists or White Scars could be good.

Really, howcome?

The turn the drop pods come in, the UM chapter tactics will give my drop pod meltas re-rolls, and my bike gravs will get re-rolls too. Then if I'm charged, I can use the UM tactics to overwatch, and the assault will be handy for the bikes if they need it. I feel like there's a lot hanging on the first round of shooting, and UM CT will help with that a fair bit. IF CT would be more long term, but really it's only a dozen or so bolters that will benefit from it, whereas with UM it's 10 special weapons which will benefit from it, as well as the bolters.

superwill wrote:
Really, howcome?

The turn the drop pods come in, the UM chapter tactics will give my drop pod meltas re-rolls, and my bike gravs will get re-rolls too. Then if I'm charged, I can use the UM tactics to overwatch, and the assault will be handy for the bikes if they need it. I feel like there's a lot hanging on the first round of shooting, and UM CT will help with that a fair bit. IF CT would be more long term, but really it's only a dozen or so bolters that will benefit from it, whereas with UM it's 10 special weapons which will benefit from it, as well as the bolters.

It affects on bikes as well?
Might be worthwhile then...