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2013/12/15 23:21:11
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
So, in Unremembered Empire, Guilliman is caught in partial ceremonial plate and unarmed against a 10 man Alpha marine Killteam. He lives, barely, so I'm a little curious how the mathhammer would play out on this.
Assumptions for this case... treating the Alpha marines as 2 5 man Veteran Tactical Squads from the HH book. They get to go first, 1 has a power sword. This is consistent with the load out they had in the book. I'm giving them the first turn too. I'm taking furious charge as both squad's SR and we're just going to ignore challenges (as they didn't seem to factor into the fight). I'm also giving them preferred enemy, as that seems a reasonable boost for this "to kill a primarch" kill team
For Guilliman, I'm giving him a "standard" stat line for a primarch
WS7, BS6, S6, T6, W6, I6, A5, LD 10... but no special equipment and just a 4+ save (seems to fit what the armour would have been, shoulder pads, chest-plate, greaves, but no helmet, only one glove, does not seem to have been power armour).
I'd give Guilliman cover saves, but doesn't really matter. I'm also not playing out the fight exactly like it happened, just seeing, given the basic set up, if it should have been as close a fight as it seems.
So, first round, the squads open up... that's 5 rapid fire bolters and 5 pistol shots (charging into CC), 15 shots, 13 hits, 1.3 wounds (so we'll say 1... Guilliman down to 5). One of the squads charges... Guilliman gets hit 5 attacks, 3 hit, doing 1 wound (locked in combat with 4). Those 4 get their 4 attacks each, 16 attacks, 9 hits, 1.9 wounds (Guilliman down to 3). Guilliman fails IWND, on their turn he attacks again, killing 1 (locked with 3). They've lost their charge bonus and FC. .6 wounds, but we'll give Guilliman a break since I rounded up to 2 wounds last time. His turn, kills one (locked with 2) and fails IWND, and then on their turn kills one (locked with 1), then on his turn kills the last one. He's due to take a wound, put also passes IWND and has to face the last squad with 3 wounds left.
So to stop the process... he'll pass one more IWND, but they have a PS and can shoot before charging. Basically the book was right on. This one comes right down to wire. The book lets Guilliman loot bodies as he goes, so that's the only reason he should live.
Well done Abnett and FW... book follows rules
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
2013/12/16 09:04:28
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
This is the same Primarch who was ripping through dozens of armed Word Bearers with his bare hands, and after being sent into a near zero oxygen and gravity environment.
2013/12/16 18:13:06
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
This is the same Primarch who was ripping through dozens of armed Word Bearers with his bare hands, and after being sent into a near zero oxygen and gravity environment.
He must have caught Magnus' amnesia disease, where he forgets his capabilities when it's convenient to the plot.
Fluff for the Fluff God!
2013/12/17 21:02:31
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
Graham McNeill is IMO the only writer who really is consistent about his portrayal of the Primarchs.
Abnett's inconsistency has been noted, and ADB somehow had Lorgar both survive a Plasma Blast Gun and have his hand blown off by a bolter in the same book.
Oh ADB, you so cray cray...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/17 21:02:42
2013/12/17 21:30:25
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
Not saying that Abnett is consistent, but with the primarchs the kit does make the man. A primarch in armor, with his shiny named weapons, is a beast. Outside his armor, he's quite a bit less.
Abnett seems to like a sort of "super-saiyan" mode in Primarch v Primarch fights (see Vulcan v Konrad or Russ vs Magnus). While in beast mode they escalate to epic scale and otherwise are just 4+ Chapter Masters.
I can't help but think in TTG terms when reading the books, and all and all, most of the fights work out fine.
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
2013/12/17 22:48:11
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
Gully wasn't concerned about being able to deal damage to the Marines, when he got his hands on them he broke them like toys. He was concerned about catching a few bolt rounds with his face.
Graham McNeill is IMO the only writer who really is consistent about his portrayal of the Primarchs.
Abnett's inconsistency has been noted, and ADB somehow had Lorgar both survive a Plasma Blast Gun and have his hand blown off by a bolter in the same book.
Oh ADB, you so cray cray...
To be fair, he took the Plasma Blast (twice) when putting all of his power towards generating a kine shield, which collapsed from the second blast.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/17 23:26:19
Fluff for the Fluff God!
2013/12/17 23:26:35
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
Omegus wrote: You'll get no argument from me there. He also dug through something like 300 meters of rock with the broken hafts of his axes.
Which Lorgar then blasted through with his mind in far less time. My point being that when he was hit by the blastgun he was pretty mentally taxed after ripping thorough a Ultramarine battle line and then 300m of rock with his mind.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote: Angron vs a warhound in cc, dead warhound 7/8 str 9 armourbane attacks... That's gonna hurt
Angron vs Warhound Titan D weaponry = Dead Angron
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/17 23:46:53
2013/12/17 23:50:21
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
Omegus wrote: You'll get no argument from me there. He also dug through something like 300 meters of rock with the broken hafts of his axes.
Which Lorgar then blasted through with his mind in far less time. My point being that when he was hit by the blastgun he was pretty mentally taxed after ripping thorough a Ultramarine battle line and then 300m of rock with his mind.
And yet in another thread I have people arguing with me that psykers aren't that powerful.
Fluff for the Fluff God!
2013/12/18 00:01:44
Subject: [SPOILER] Mathhammer and a fight from HH Unremembered Empire
Omegus wrote: You'll get no argument from me there. He also dug through something like 300 meters of rock with the broken hafts of his axes.
Which Lorgar then blasted through with his mind in far less time. My point being that when he was hit by the blastgun he was pretty mentally taxed after ripping thorough a Ultramarine battle line and then 300m of rock with his mind.
And yet in another thread I have people arguing with me that psykers aren't that powerful.
Did I ever say psykers aren't that powerful? No I just said they can't crush primarchs like bugs with their mind. Anyway it's totally irrelevant to the point I just made so...yeah...
Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 
Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 
Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 
Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 
Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 
Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 
Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 
Crimson Tide 59-4-0 
Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 
Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 
BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 
IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 
RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
