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So I've been thinking about what I've read in many of the BL books, specifically the Night Lords book that contains Huron, and the various Gaunt's Ghosts books like "Traitor General" and "Blood Pact" that portray parts of the forces and cultures of Chaos that are far more ridged and regulated than what is illuded to in many of the other BL books and GW fluff. It occurred to me that Chaos Overlords like Abaddon and Huron have a TON of planetary systems, populations, and forces that they need to keep a close eye on. In this way they are very much like the Imperium. So why wouldn't they have an analog organization to the Imperial Inquisition or Adeptus Arbites that are responsible for maintaining their grip of tyranny and "loyalty" for their masters?

What do you think this kind of organization would look like knowing that the forces of Chaos are inherently distrustful of even their own, and are often made up of individuals that are far more interested in self rather than the whole. How would this be similar to the imperial versions, and in what ways would they be drastically different?

Full disclosure is that I often play "counts-as" armies using loyalist rules but chaos models. I do play Chaos Space Marines and Daemons using the rules for them, and I have a great deal of fun doing so; however, I also enjoy being able to expand on the various types of armies that I get to build and play styles that are made possible using non-Chaos codexes. So yes, I am looking for ideas and comments on how to create a Chaos themed Inquisition force to ally with my traitor guard and CSM themed Space Marines.

The forces of Chaos don't have that kind of organization. It's completely antithetical.

Honestly, the chaos version of the inquisition would probably just be the most extreme radicalists. I believe there is even a radical sect of inquisitors called "Horusians" who venerate Horus similarly to modern satanists. As for how all these planets are kept in check, it's probably similar to the imperial system with planetary governors, subsector command, etc. But rather than honor or duty, it operates under power, fear, and aggression.

Chaos doesn't have a single monolithic agency like the Inquisition, but countless clandestine organizations working for their side: Sorcerers, cults, secret societies, demagogues, terrorist cells...

I'm actually using Codex: Inquisition to represent a Fallen Dark Angel.

Rav1rn wrote:
Honestly, the chaos version of the inquisition would probably just be the most extreme radicalists. I believe there is even a radical sect of inquisitors called "Horusians" who venerate Horus similarly to modern satanists. As for how all these planets are kept in check, it's probably similar to the imperial system with planetary governors, subsector command, etc. But rather than honor or duty, it operates under power, fear, and aggression.

That's not at all what the Horusians are but that's neither here nor there.

I'd say a chaos leader of any kind would have both overt enforcers and covert spy rings to maintain the internal cohesion of his warband. Only the most powerful of individuals, like Abbaddon, would need such an organization to be very large. The rest get by on either force of personality, blackmail, threats, or other ways to at least make sure your subordinates are getting your goals done.

Of course that's at the chaos space marine level. At the human heretic level, which is the vast majority of what's portrayed in the Gaunt's Ghosts books, then anything the Imperials have could be copied and mirrored. It would make sense that traitors would take with them concepts of military police and various plants and snitches strewn across different units. To be fair, there are just as many IG regiments who are seen as distrustful and made up of individuals more interested in self than whole as there are traitor regiments who are the same.

Generally, the Chaos Marines serve that role, I think. They are the most loyal to the warlords, in their own way, and it's hard to see any CSMs listening to anybody but a demon or CSM.

'Let's get organised!'

'But sir, we're meant to be Chaos...'

Chaos doesn't need an internal police force, it's self policing. Corruption within Chaos-held systems is meant to be inevitable for normal humans unprotected by plot armour.

I see chaos being a lot like orks in this regard. They get to be the boss by being the biggest an baddest, or you follow the one that is.

kingleir wrote:
I see chaos being a lot like orks in this regard. They get to be the boss by being the biggest an baddest, or you follow the one that is.

That is how it works. What defines "biggest and baddest" is up to the particular Ruinous Powers involved... but that's basically it. If you think you can do it better, you're welcome to try to take down the ruling class... but if you come at the king, you best not miss.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
'Let's get organised!'

'But sir, we're meant to be Chaos...'

Up until the most recent CSM codex, this was exactly what was happening; Chaos was getting less Chaos-y (its a real word). At least now they have reclaimed a little of their old "hodge-podge army of crazy" flavor from the old Black Codex days...

@ the OP: what would a Chaos Inquisition do? Travel around the Eye of Terror burning people for not being heretical enough? Wipe out whole daemon worlds to prevent the spread of Draigo?

Chaos has no stable order. Whoever the gods favor has authority, and they can lose that favor (and authority) at a moment's notice. Warbands make and break alliances, declare and rescind fealty, and just do whatever they want whenever they want. Because, y'know... Chaos.

Arbiters, sure, every regime needs thugs and legbreakers in their employ. Inquisitors have far too much authority and resources for there to be a Chaos equivalent (unless we are talking corrupt Chaos Inquisitor, I guess?).

Imo, the closest would be a heretic inquisitor using his Imperial influence to bring ruination to the IOM, rather than policing the chaos followers.

Though that is not really a "Chaos Inquisition", that's just a traitor.

 Psienesis wrote:
Though that is not really a "Chaos Inquisition", that's just a traitor.

Hence "closest thing".

Follows chaos and is an inquisitor. Close enough.

Well... not in the idea the OP intends, I don't think. This Inquisitor in question is not playing the role of an Inquisitor in a Chaos-based society. He is, though, being an Inquisitor in an Imperial society, no matter in what ways he's betraying it.

It's not even really a "closest thing" as it's not even on the same page as the original concept. Unless this Chaos Inq went on back to some world in the Eye and set up his own secret police faction that had nigh-limitless authority over all Chaos-held worlds in the Eye of Terror.... that, I think, is closer to the OP's question. Whether something like that exists. Which I do not believe it does, or even could.

Given the amount of traitor inquisitors we have in the background, I guess Chaos Inquisition outnumbers the Imperial version.

Well, Radicals use Chaos, they do not necessarily serve it.

So they believe.

Horus thought the same too.

 Psienesis wrote:
Well... not in the idea the OP intends, I don't think. This Inquisitor in question is not playing the role of an Inquisitor in a Chaos-based society. He is, though, being an Inquisitor in an Imperial society, no matter in what ways he's betraying it.

It's not even really a "closest thing" as it's not even on the same page as the original concept. Unless this Chaos Inq went on back to some world in the Eye and set up his own secret police faction that had nigh-limitless authority over all Chaos-held worlds in the Eye of Terror.... that, I think, is closer to the OP's question. Whether something like that exists. Which I do not believe it does, or even could.

Actually, that's exactly what I mean. I'm thinking a follower of chaos that acts just like an inquisitor but specifically for one of the major personalities of Chaos, not for the forces/cultures of the Ruinous Powers of Chaos in general.

As for the assertions that chaos doesn't have organizations or structures, I think that books like "Traitor General", "Blood Pact", etc seems to indicate the presence of cultural structure and functioning societies which would require a certain level of organization.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The forces of Chaos don't have that kind of organization. It's completely antithetical.

Pretty much. The idea of "Chaos" having some kind of "ordered" and organized entity charged with self-policing is fairly amusing.

The forces of Chaos are not a singular entity like the Imperium is. Hence why it takes them hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years to put together these Black Crusades, and they always fall apart relatively quickly. Because every aspect of Chaos is self-interested.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The forces of Chaos don't have that kind of organization. It's completely antithetical.

Pretty much. The idea of "Chaos" having some kind of "ordered" and organized entity charged with self-policing is fairly amusing.

The forces of Chaos are not a singular entity like the Imperium is. Hence why it takes them hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years to put together these Black Crusades, and they always fall apart relatively quickly. Because every aspect of Chaos is self-interested.

While a grand scale order is impossible, there are lower-scale orders - such as the organisation of a Warband, or a Chaos/Daemon Lord ruling over a planet.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The forces of Chaos don't have that kind of organization. It's completely antithetical.

Pretty much this. The infighting of the various factions of Chaos makes the Imperium look positively monolithic and uniform in its peaceful unity.

CSM's fit the role more or less. Chaos society is organized in a similar manner to a more chaotic version of small feudal lords and barons in Medieval Europe. Each and every CSM is a Knight- owning his own chunk of the system while all pledging service to their respective king/baron/etc. He'll also violently put down any dissenters in his command or associated with him.

 Wyzilla wrote:
CSM's fit the role more or less. Chaos society is organized in a similar manner to a more chaotic version of small feudal lords and barons in Medieval Europe. Each and every CSM is a Knight- owning his own chunk of the system while all pledging service to their respective king/baron/etc. He'll also violently put down any dissenters in his command or associated with him.

Everyone seems to point to CSM as the real powers in the chaos loyal areas of the galaxy, but it seems to me that the BL fluff simply doesn't back this up. How do warlords such as Angwar Sek or Guar who aren't Chaos Space Marines and who do not have the loyalty of Chaos Space Marines maintain their power? I would assert that they absolutely must have some kind of hierarchy in place on their worlds even if it is based around military power.

They use things like a military police force to control civilian slaves and brutal discipline within the ranks of their military to maintain order.

the closes the forces of the chaos come to the inquisition is basically a raving mob of religious fanatics that don't hesitate to skin and string up (or worse) anyone who doesn't tow the line.

 UselesswizarD wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
CSM's fit the role more or less. Chaos society is organized in a similar manner to a more chaotic version of small feudal lords and barons in Medieval Europe. Each and every CSM is a Knight- owning his own chunk of the system while all pledging service to their respective king/baron/etc. He'll also violently put down any dissenters in his command or associated with him.

Everyone seems to point to CSM as the real powers in the chaos loyal areas of the galaxy, but it seems to me that the BL fluff simply doesn't back this up. How do warlords such as Angwar Sek or Guar who aren't Chaos Space Marines and who do not have the loyalty of Chaos Space Marines maintain their power? I would assert that they absolutely must have some kind of hierarchy in place on their worlds even if it is based around military power.

Well yes, as mentioned, military police and defense systems to keep out the CSM's, who will likely sack your planet silly if it's of interest of them.

Of course, the main power of Chaos is Chaos itself. CSM's come next, although a power human psyker would be stronger than them. The Swords of Epiphany come to mind, CSM's who's founder and 'chapter master' is a powerful, but human, psyker. Who they also are completely devoted to and call father.

 disdamn wrote:
the closes the forces of the chaos come to the inquisition is basically a raving mob of religious fanatics that don't hesitate to skin and string up (or worse) anyone who doesn't tow the line.

Sounds just like the inquisition to me.

 UselesswizarD wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
CSM's fit the role more or less. Chaos society is organized in a similar manner to a more chaotic version of small feudal lords and barons in Medieval Europe. Each and every CSM is a Knight- owning his own chunk of the system while all pledging service to their respective king/baron/etc. He'll also violently put down any dissenters in his command or associated with him.

Everyone seems to point to CSM as the real powers in the chaos loyal areas of the galaxy, but it seems to me that the BL fluff simply doesn't back this up. How do warlords such as Angwar Sek or Guar who aren't Chaos Space Marines and who do not have the loyalty of Chaos Space Marines maintain their power? I would assert that they absolutely must have some kind of hierarchy in place on their worlds even if it is based around military power.

What you're reaching for here is something that is similar to the Imperium's Inquisition, yet wholly different.

The Inquisition spans all of the various factions of the Imperium, all of its borders. They are drawn from its most capable citizens and trained to fight in the shadows (mostly) against humanities greatest threats. Noone is beneath their scrutiney, noone is beyond their reach. The Inquisition is needed because the Imperium is based on rule of law, and when laws are broken, punishment is metted out accordingly. Some crimes are worse than others, some crimes are so bad that people can be hurt simply by knowing of them, this is why the Inquisition exsists. It seeks to protect those who cannot protect themselves because the Imperium is united as one despite all of the departments and factions and differences.

Chaos is not this. It is fractured, by its very nature the forces of Chaos cannot present a united front that seeks the betterment of its citizens because it has none. It has subjects and slaves that work towards the betterment of their masters who grow from every imaginable misdeed their followers perform. It does not seek to protect those who are weak, it preys on them. There's no need for an inquisiton when there are no laws to be broken besides, "Might makes right." The strong rule the weak through overt methods of suppresion and oppression. As was said earlier, if you think you can do better go ahead and overthrow the king, but if you come at the king you best not miss.

The individual generals or warlords may have their own heiracrhies in place to keep from being overthrown, but they pale in comparison to what the Inquisition is. They preform like a riot squad compared to the Inquisition's quiet assassin. It's like comparing a rent-a-cop to a CIA agent. The forces of Chaos lack the cohesion, and need, for a clandestine organization like the Imperium's Inquisition.

/rant (sorry if this doesn't make a bunch of sense, I'm writing this up at work and I have 3 minutes to push it out before quitting time.)

 da001 wrote:
So they believe.

Horus thought the same too.

It really isn't that simple.

The longer an Inquisitor serves, the more difficult choices he had to make, the more lesser evils he has to choose, the more potent weapons he needs to fight ever greater adversaries. You make one little compromise in the name of necessity, then another, then another, then another.

Before you know it, you're a Radical inquisitor in a buddy movie with a Daemonhost, like Eisenhorn. And Eisenhorn got that Daemonhost from another Radical who had orchestrated a mass cult/conspiracy that would cost billions of lives, but if his plan worked, it would have collapsed the Eye of Terror. Was stopping him the right decision?