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My friends and I are having our first game of escalation at the weekend and thus our first game using 'D' weapons. We're a casual group and none of us will be powergaming just looking to have some fun.
We all agree that we don't want to use the rule for 'D' weapons as presented, we intend to havce lots of normal units on the table as well as superheavies and the fact that Landraiders & Wraithknight have similar survivability to gretchins and rippers is a little bit silly.

I was trying to decide which rules to use for them, they obviously need to be very powerful but they shouldn't ignore all the usual 40K rules (thats what Tau are for ;-))

So to start with I was going to give them S11, AP:1, Ignores cover and as they are all(?) primary weapons they get to roll two dice and pick when penetrating armour. The S11 is to give them a little boost verses other superheavy stuff that may have T9/10 or AV:14/15. The other rule I was going to give them was that they do double damage i.e. if you take a wound and fail your saves you lose two wounds and if it glances/penetrates a vehicle it loses two hull points or rolls twice on the table.

Still very powerful but slightly more manageable.

Please let me know what you think or share your idea's about how they should work.

I am kinda thinking along those lines. And perhaps you could add something along with "If you roll a 6 to penetrate a vehicle with a D weapon, the vehicle suffers an additional hull point. If you likewise roll a 6 to wound a non-vehicle model, the model counts as having suffered an additional wound from the weapon.", and perhaps "Any successful invulnerable saves taken against a D weapon must be re-rolled.".

"Reduces all non-armor saves by X with an AP of 1"
So a 4+ cover save becomes a 4+x+, a 3++ becomes a 3+x++ etc-
X = 2?
Therefore it would reduce a 4++ to a 6++.
The AP takes care of being harsh for vehicles without a guaranteed kill.

Thairne, not a bad idea...but it leaves some Deathstars being very powerful and hinders the only hard counter to them currently(D-weapons).

D-weapons have to nearly eliminate Invulnerable saves in some capacity for this to be the playable counter to rerollable Invulns.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Thairne, not a bad idea...but it leaves some Deathstars being very powerful and hinders the only hard counter to them currently(D-weapons).

D-weapons have to nearly eliminate Invulnerable saves in some capacity for this to be the playable counter to rerollable Invulns.

Honestly, how about playing tacitcally and smart as a counter to re rollable invuls?. Seriously.

Well you could add a no reroll section, that would kill those pretty dead
So +x on saves, ap1, no rerolls.

D-weapons have to nearly eliminate Invulnerable saves in some capacity for this to be the playable counter to rerollable Invulns.

Whilst I would agree if this was for a top tier tournament, for games with my friends none of us will be bringing screamerstar/seer council or the like.

It is a fine line to balance the big 'D' though as they need to be able to deal with other superheavies whilst not just making all other units pointless. The issue in casual games is people pay alot of points to make their models extra survivable and the standard 'D' rules make those points a total waste. If someone pays for a stormshield they expect it to be of some use.

I like the "Re-roll all successful invulnerable saves" more than modifying the saves as it fits the current rules conventions better but I feel if we were to use that then we are getting nearly back to the problem we are trying to avoid.



On another note we're also thinking of implementing the old rule that prevents superheavies/GMC from being effected by psychic powers without a strength (unless they cast them on themselves). Fortune/prescience/Invisibility/Forewarning all seem a little silly on titans and the like.

Again your thoughts would be appreciated as we all are slightly biased by the armies we play and I'm in charge of making fair rules for my group.

No Instant Death?

No Instant Death?

Not even normal destroyer weapons rules include Instant death IIRC.


Thanks for the input, these are the rules I'm leaning towards at the moment:

Escalation Rules Modifications

- Destroyer Weapons:
Weapons with a Strength of ‘D’ use their normal Range, AP, and other special rules remembering in most cases they have Primary Weapon.
In addition they use the following rules:
All hits are considered to be S11 and have the Ignores Cover special rule.
To-wound rolls or armour penetration rolls of ‘6’ ignore all saving throws and cannot be prevented by Feel No Pain or similar special rules.
If after all saves and similar rolls have been taken a model suffers a wound or a glancing/penetrating result they suffer two wounds or two glancing/penetrating results instead.

- Psychic Powers:
All Super Heavy Vehicles and Gargantuan Creatures are Immune to the effect of all psychic powers that do not have a Strength value.

I would just make them S10, AP1. Nothing more.

I really like the idea of removing the ability for 'small things to affect big things'. It was a common houserule in the old Apoc setting, which already disallowed non-STR psychic. Carrying those over would help a good bit.

I agree that treating it differently will also matter greatly on the type of game being played. In a tournament setting, D-weapons really need to remain the counter to the re-rollable invulns. But in friendly games, it can be resonably nerfed as needed to make the game 'feel' more narrative.

MarkyMark wrote:

Honestly, how about playing tacitcally and smart as a counter to re rollable invuls?. Seriously.

Playing smart and tactically is the counter to re-rollable invulns? And here the rest of the world thinks that tournament results and actual data matters. You also didn't even bother to contribute to the conversation...meaning...lousy troll is lousy. I'm guessing you have zero ability to play Tactically, as you clearly don't even understand the word 'Tactic' if you posted that terrible troll comment.

Edit: Just noticed you are also a Daemon player....haha. That explains it. Go hug your Herald and cry about D-weapons.

Isn't there already a D discussion here?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/567015.page

Let's not fragment discussion.