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Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

Just a thought: how would the rise of trans-Humans (cyborgs, genetically-modified Humans, etc.) affect society in general? After all many of them will have abilities that will surpass those of ordinary Humans, and in the case of the genetically-enhanced, probably inheritable too. I wouldn't put it out of the bounds of possibility that Humanity might diverge into several sub-species as a result, so how would this affect our modern society.

PS: try to be realistic. This isn't set in 40k, this is set in reality, so differing religions, cultural views and such will have to be taken into consideration.

Some additional info:

Trans-Human technologies in question: cybernetics and genetic modification.

How they function: think cyborgs and androids from Ghost in the Shell, and augments from Star Trek/Coordinators from Gundam Seed.

How much they cost/how common are they: cybernetics would be relatively cheap and commonplace though at first they'll be quite expensive and will steadily just get cheaper and more commonplace. Genetic modification will always remain expensive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 14:54:15


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in nl
Decrepit Dakkanaut






More discrimination and violence, because that's how it has always worked with humans and we don't seem to be changing that any time soon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 11:06:04


 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Just a thought: how would the rise of trans-Humans (cyborgs, genetically-modified Humans, etc.) affect society in general? After all many of them will have abilities that will surpass those of ordinary Humans, and in the case of the genetically-enhanced, probably inheritable too. I wouldn't put it out of the bounds of possibility that Humanity might diverge into several sub-species as a result, so how would this affect our modern society.

PS: try to be realistic. This isn't set in 40k, this is set in reality, so differing religions, cultural views and such will have to be taken into consideration.

Title could probably stand to be tweaked. I thought this thread was about transgendered people's affect on society from the title.

As to on topic, bigotry, hate crimes, misery, the usual. Eventually the group either gets accepted or wiped out. Look to any group of people even remotely out of the norm over history to see a good example. For example, had I been born a 1,000 years earlier in many cultures I would've been burned alive for being suspected of being a vampire/wizard/ soulless abomination simply because I have red hair. Thankfully that's not as common anymore.


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

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Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Soladrin wrote:
More discrimination and violence, because that's how it has always worked with humans and we don't seem to be changing that any time soon.

Until the eventual uprising where Cyborgs delete all processes of any function relating to emotions and then they all enslave us.

Also, thought this was about transgendered peeps....

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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Alfndrate wrote:
 Soladrin wrote:
More discrimination and violence, because that's how it has always worked with humans and we don't seem to be changing that any time soon.

Until the eventual uprising where Cyborgs delete all processes of any function relating to emotions and then they all enslave us.


Cyborgs don't necessarily have to be emotionless drones. Unless you automatically think of the Borg of course, as I usually imagine the guys from Ghost in the Shell first whenever I hear cyborgs.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
 Soladrin wrote:
More discrimination and violence, because that's how it has always worked with humans and we don't seem to be changing that any time soon.

Until the eventual uprising where Cyborgs delete all processes of any function relating to emotions and then they all enslave us.


Cyborgs don't necessarily have to be emotionless drones. Unless you automatically think of the Borg of course, as I usually imagine the guys from Ghost in the Shell first whenever I hear cyborgs.

So am I, but the problem is when you start creating things like cybernetic brains, things we believe are natural like emotions, thoughts, feelings, etc... are distilled to a series of programs and functions, all cyborgs would have to start doing is to simply receive a bit of a hack to delete that function from their brain to become more machine than man. And like Soladrin said, people discriminate enough when we're all just people, if you throw cyborgs into the mix, they'll be a second class citizenry. And a few of them might become ticked off enough to delete said thing, go full robo if you will and start plotting to overthrow humanity.

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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







We already live in a world where there is massive disparity, TransHumanism is probably something for the future when the playing field levels out.

Genetic alterations are already being curtailed by the courts, as quite rightly, they say they are unethical.

I'm all for prosthesis development and such technology that can help the injured or impaired live a more "normal"/independent life.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 13:30:15


   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Alfndrate wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
 Soladrin wrote:
More discrimination and violence, because that's how it has always worked with humans and we don't seem to be changing that any time soon.

Until the eventual uprising where Cyborgs delete all processes of any function relating to emotions and then they all enslave us.


Cyborgs don't necessarily have to be emotionless drones. Unless you automatically think of the Borg of course, as I usually imagine the guys from Ghost in the Shell first whenever I hear cyborgs.

So am I, but the problem is when you start creating things like cybernetic brains, things we believe are natural like emotions, thoughts, feelings, etc... are distilled to a series of programs and functions, all cyborgs would have to start doing is to simply receive a bit of a hack to delete that function from their brain to become more machine than man.


Actually the cyborgs from Ghost in the Shell keep the parts of their brains that retain consciousness (and apparently emotions as well) organic, so I doubt they can just delete it. Memories appear to be something that can be altered though (since memory cores appear to be a common cybernetic component).


And like Soladrin said, people discriminate enough when we're all just people, if you throw cyborgs into the mix, they'll be a second class citizenry. And a few of them might become ticked off enough to delete said thing, go full robo if you will and start plotting to overthrow humanity.


They might not if everyone/most people become cyborgs to remain economically competitive. Or Earth might become so polluted/actually goes hostile against Humans that we have to actively pursue technological singularity to avoid extinction.


 Medium of Death wrote:
We already live in a world where there is massive disparity, TransHumanism is probably something for the future when the playing field levels out.

Genetic alterations are already being curtailed by the courts, as quite rightly, they say they are unethical.


They are? Personally I find nothing wrong with enhancing people's abilities through the use of genetic technology. That's what we developed technology for in the first place: to make our lives easier.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/19 13:33:14


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







Making a certain percent of the population more privileged doesn't really make everybody lives easier does it? It would just create a new layer in society pushing those less fortunate further down. As somebody from the Phillipines, surely you see massive disparity on a daily basis? How would genetic enhancements indirectly improve these peoples lives (because lets be honest, this new advancement isn't going to roll out to everybody especially not the poor)?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 13:44:12


   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Medium of Death wrote:
Making a certain percent of the population more privileged doesn't really make everybody lives easier does it? It would just create a new layer in society pushing those less fortunate further down.


Nothing much has changed in that regard since ancient times then.


As somebody from the Phillipines, surely you see massive disparity on a daily basis?


Yes, but as I recall there's a certain degree of social mobility, usually with the educated leaving the country and never coming back. And its not like we can blame them either.


How would genetic enhancements indirectly improve these peoples lives (because lets be honest, this new advancement isn't going to roll out to everybody especially not the poor)?


It won't, unless cybernetics gets as cheap and commonplace as they seem to appear in Ghost in the Shell. If so, then the expensive gene treatments would probably be countered by cyber-augmentation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 15:04:39


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in gb
Krazed Killa Kan






Newport, S Wales

Soladrin wrote:More discrimination and violence, because that's how it has always worked with humans and we don't seem to be changing that any time soon.


This.

On the other hand, trans-humans will just become the future's 'gay marriage debate'. First it will be abhorred, then argued over with fringe minorities shouting loudly enough to ruin it for the tolerant majority, followed by acceptance by pretty much the whole of society except a small group of fundamentalist nutters and stubborn pensioners that no-one really listens to anyway.

Heck, as soon as I can get a prehensile tail installed I'm going for it (so I can type inane posts on Dakka and drink coffee at the same time)

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 Atma01 wrote:

And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!


Phototoxin wrote:Kids go in , they waste tonnes of money on marnus calgar and his landraider, the slaneshi-like GW revel at this lust and short term profit margin pleasure. Meanwhile father time and cunning lord tzeentch whisper 'our games are better AND cheaper' and then players leave for mantic and warmahordes.

daveNYC wrote:The Craftworld guys, who are such stick-in-the-muds that they manage to make the Ultramarines look like an Ibiza nightclub that spiked its Red Bull with LSD.
 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Leigen_Zero wrote:

Heck, as soon as I can get a prehensile tail installed I'm going for it (so I can type inane posts on Dakka and drink coffee at the same time)


What kind of prehensile tail? A biological tail or something like a Mechadendrite?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 14:01:41


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

It's pretty much impossible to have a serious discussion on this topic without setting some clear definitions and limitations, precisely what kind of transhumanism are we talking about? How does it function? How much does it cost?
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







 Leigen_Zero wrote:

On the other hand, trans-humans will just become the future's 'gay marriage debate'.


Are you insinuating that being gay is a lifestyle choice? Ultimately that's what trans-humanism is, so unless you are saying the former you can't really compare both debates.

   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Monarchy of TBD

Rudimentary enhancements are out there. What are vaccines if not post birth genetic augmentation? My son could now walk through a room full of measels patients and come out healthy. A hundred years ago, he would have been considered a witch.

I myself bear the incredibly clumsy cybernetic ocular modifications of contacts or eyeglasses. I know several who have isolated titanium bones, and older folks who have synthetic hips.

Then there are the recreational augmenters, or as they are currently referred to- Glassholes. They bear Google Glass and chatter to themselves, seeing things we unaugmented can only dream of.

Augmentation is not going to be a paradigm shift, it will be a creeping alteration in the availability and purpose of technology. If there was a simple, injected vaccine for myopia, I imagine many parents would take advantage of it, much as many parents take advantage of the temporary augmentation of braces for their kids. Certainly I would, since neither my wife nor I have genes for good eyesight.

I suppose my point is that by the time it happens, we'll think nothing of it.

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Mercurial wrote:
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Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
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Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
...precisely what kind of transhumanism are we talking about?


Cybernetics and genetic modification.


How does it function?


Think cyborgs and androids from Ghost in the Shell, and augments from Star Trek/Coordinators from Gundam Seed.


How much does it cost?


Cybernetics would be relatively cheap and commonplace though at first they'll be quite expensive and will steadily just get cheaper and more commonplace. Genetic modification will always remain expensive.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in gb
Krazed Killa Kan






Newport, S Wales

Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Leigen_Zero wrote:

Heck, as soon as I can get a prehensile tail installed I'm going for it (so I can type inane posts on Dakka and drink coffee at the same time)


What kind of prehensile tail? A biological tail or something like a Mechadendrite?


Biological most definately, for some reason a giant mechanical tentacle sticking out of my lower back just doesn't have the same appeal...

Medium of Death wrote:
 Leigen_Zero wrote:

On the other hand, trans-humans will just become the future's 'gay marriage debate'.


Are you insinuating that being gay is a lifestyle choice? Ultimately that's what trans-humanism is, so unless you are saying the former you can't really compare both debates.


No insinuation at all, I'm just comparing in a more broad sense, how pretty much every sub-set of society, chosen or not, has been treated since the dawn of time. First there is hatred, then small minorites of opposition ruining things for the rest of us, then tolerance. I used gay marriage simply because it was the most relevant topic today. but you can fill in the blank with goths, people with tattoos, ethnic minorities, punks, breast-feeding in public, etc etc

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 14:31:29


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My P&M Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433120.page
 Atma01 wrote:

And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!


Phototoxin wrote:Kids go in , they waste tonnes of money on marnus calgar and his landraider, the slaneshi-like GW revel at this lust and short term profit margin pleasure. Meanwhile father time and cunning lord tzeentch whisper 'our games are better AND cheaper' and then players leave for mantic and warmahordes.

daveNYC wrote:The Craftworld guys, who are such stick-in-the-muds that they manage to make the Ultramarines look like an Ibiza nightclub that spiked its Red Bull with LSD.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Corpsesarefun wrote:
...precisely what kind of transhumanism are we talking about?


Cybernetics and genetic modification.


How does it function?


Think cyborgs and androids from Ghost in the Shell, and augments from Star Trek/Coordinators from Gundam Seed.


How much does it cost?


Cybernetics would be relatively cheap and commonplace though at first they'll be quite expensive and will steadily just get cheaper and more commonplace. Genetic modification will always remain expensive.


Update the original post with a concise explanation of what you just said and we're golden.

If cybernetics are cheap and commonplace then I doubt there will be any interesting issues with them other than a fringe minority of "purists".

Genetic modification, on the other hand, I'm guessing will be exclusively pre-natal and will be expensive... So I suppose it won't be dissimilar to the situation most extremely rich people are in now in that they are "above" the rest of the population.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 14:39:20


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Medium of Death wrote:
 Leigen_Zero wrote:

On the other hand, trans-humans will just become the future's 'gay marriage debate'.


Are you insinuating that being gay is a lifestyle choice? Ultimately that's what trans-humanism is, so unless you are saying the former you can't really compare both debates.


Not true, while some transhumanism may be a lifestyle choice (eg I pop into the Doc-shop for a new prehensile tail),

others will not be such as a genetic modification chosen for you by a parent (or earlier ancestor), artificial medical replacements required for life (or possibly even required by the state)

 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Actually the cyborgs from Ghost in the Shell keep the parts of their brains that retain consciousness (and apparently emotions as well) organic, so I doubt they can just delete it. Memories appear to be something that can be altered though (since memory cores appear to be a common cybernetic component).

If we're going to go with GitS as the 'pinnacle' of cyberbrains, then you have to remember that there are drawbacks of the cyber brain the first is that they're hackable, there are medical issues that have no cures, etc... There is the possibility that someone with a high level of cyberisation might find themselves hacking their own cyberbrain (see: Closed Shell Syndrome) to remove themselves from other people. Not to mention that there is the philosophical implication that everything our brains process (emotions, thoughts, feelings) is nothing more than data, and data can be hacked and changed. If someone wanted to, they could probably hack a cyberbrain to either delete the functions that transmit the proper data, or simply block the electric pattern from firing off down the synapses. There are already people in our world that don't feel emotions, technology would simply make it an outside process instead of a chemical or neurological imbalance.


They might not if everyone/most people become cyborgs to remain economically competitive. Or Earth might become so polluted/actually goes hostile against Humans that we have to actively pursue technological singularity to avoid extinction.

There will be people that will always wish to remain completely natural. This was one of the main aspects of the recent Deus Ex game, and that was a game, but the emotions that people were expressing were/are things we are saying about actual humans that have different views (sexuality, race, etc...). We're mightily hostile against things that aren't us as collective.

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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Alfndrate wrote:

There will be people that will always wish to remain completely natural.


That's their choice. If they're the majority, then things might prove problematic for the minority. But if they're the minority (which they eventually will be - check the altered OP), then it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:

There will be people that will always wish to remain completely natural.


That's their choice. If they're the majority, then things might prove problematic for the minority. But if they're the minority (which they eventually will be - check the altered OP), then it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

Except that when they are the minority they will do what they can in their power to return the power balance to what it was when they were the majority.

Humanity can't even play nice with the bodies we've been given, we're not going to play well with people that have the money to make themselves better than people that don't have the cash to such things.

At the end of the day, this will be something that will take decades for humanity to figure out and at this current point in time, we are ill equipped to deal with such things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 15:29:33


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Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Alfndrate wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:

There will be people that will always wish to remain completely natural.


That's their choice. If they're the majority, then things might prove problematic for the minority. But if they're the minority (which they eventually will be - check the altered OP), then it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

Except that when they are the minority they will do what they can in their power to return the power balance to what it was when they were the majority.


Great...just what we needed, more terrorists.


Humanity can't even play nice with the bodies we've been given, we're not going to play well with people that have the money to make themselves better than people that don't have the cash to such things.

At the end of the day, this will be something that will take decades for humanity to figure out and at this current point in time, we are ill equipped to deal with such things.


But isn't that what drives evolution, challenges to the species and to its social structure? Granted, the end result is either destruction or rebirth, but it's certainly preferable to stagnation.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:

There will be people that will always wish to remain completely natural.


That's their choice. If they're the majority, then things might prove problematic for the minority. But if they're the minority (which they eventually will be - check the altered OP), then it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

Except that when they are the minority they will do what they can in their power to return the power balance to what it was when they were the majority.


Great...just what we needed, more terrorists.

Terrorist and revolutionary are only terms handed out by history. Nelson Mandela is lauded as a man of peace that strove to non-violently make South Africa a place where black and white Africans could live together without bigotry and hate. Have they achieved that? Not totally, but it's better than what it was when Nelson Mandela was helping plan bombing attacks against white South Africans. Like I said, we as a race are ill equipped to deal with this situation that you've posed to us because we can't even get along with each other now.


Humanity can't even play nice with the bodies we've been given, we're not going to play well with people that have the money to make themselves better than people that don't have the cash to such things.

At the end of the day, this will be something that will take decades for humanity to figure out and at this current point in time, we are ill equipped to deal with such things.


But isn't that what drives evolution, challenges to the species and to its social structure? Granted, the end result is either destruction or rebirth, but it's certainly preferable to stagnation.

Generally challenges to the species are climate changes, changes in eating patterns due to availabilty to food, changes to plumage, fur, etc... to help us hide from predators or prey better. In those situations animals evolve over centuries/millenia. Humans are terrible animals when you consider our senses and compositions. We're not very fast, we're not strong, we don't have the best eyesight, the best hearing or sense of smell, we don't have the appropriate amount of hair to survive in a variety of climates we're pretty much relegated to the warmest climates in the world. Fortunately we are tool makers and have created things that have allowed us to adapt as quickly as we have in the past 2000 years (hell, look at how much our lives have changed in the past 100 years!). And we're not really stagnant as it is right now, we just have bigger problems that are in our way before we can even consider a class war between cyborgs and naturals.

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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Alfndrate wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:

There will be people that will always wish to remain completely natural.


That's their choice. If they're the majority, then things might prove problematic for the minority. But if they're the minority (which they eventually will be - check the altered OP), then it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

Except that when they are the minority they will do what they can in their power to return the power balance to what it was when they were the majority.


Great...just what we needed, more terrorists.

Terrorist and revolutionary are only terms handed out by history. Nelson Mandela is lauded as a man of peace that strove to non-violently make South Africa a place where black and white Africans could live together without bigotry and hate. Have they achieved that? Not totally, but it's better than what it was when Nelson Mandela was helping plan bombing attacks against white South Africans. Like I said, we as a race are ill equipped to deal with this situation that you've posed to us because we can't even get along with each other now.


I have no problems with a peaceful movement to maintain the status quo/guarantee the rights of the conservatives, though I doubt they'd get much support from the cybernetic majority if they're agenda is to establish natural supremacy/have everyone's cybernetics torn out.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Well, I think that things in the beginning would start off quite alright really. I mean, the manner in which technology progresses, the first couple generations of fully functioning cyborg types would merely fill the roles of menial labor... Removing the McJobs as it were. Eventually, we may progress to the point where we have a few actual human people who wish to work, controlling several to several hundred of these cyborgs doing ALL work across the human spectrum, and we evolve into a completely leisure society (or near enough to it)


Eventually, though things would end up horribly, horribly wrong for us, and we normal human beings would probably go extinct.
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Just a thought: how would the rise of trans-Humans (cyborgs, genetically-modified Humans, etc.) affect society in general? After all many of them will have abilities that will surpass those of ordinary Humans, and in the case of the genetically-enhanced, probably inheritable too. I wouldn't put it out of the bounds of possibility that Humanity might diverge into several sub-species as a result, so how would this affect our modern society.

PS: try to be realistic. This isn't set in 40k, this is set in reality, so differing religions, cultural views and such will have to be taken into consideration.

Some additional info:

Trans-Human technologies in question: cybernetics and genetic modification.

How they function: think cyborgs and androids from Ghost in the Shell, and augments from Star Trek/Coordinators from Gundam Seed.

Wait, you're wanting people to be realistic, and then you're referencing anime? Specifically anime where some concept of "soul" exists and people can chop their entire bodies off from it and stick it in a completely human-like body with an artificial brain? Don't get me wrong, Ghost in the Shell is probably my favorite anime, but if we're going to be realistic here, then we should start by looking at this first.

How much they cost/how common are they: cybernetics would be relatively cheap and commonplace though at first they'll be quite expensive and will steadily just get cheaper and more commonplace. Genetic modification will always remain expensive.


Well, the first cybernetics will be prosthetic limb replacements for amputees and people with birth defects. This is happening now.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/409100/prosthetic-limbs-that-can-feel/

They're prohibitively expensive and lower quality than natural limbs. The issue appears to be developing a consistent and reliable interface to the nervous system. There is a lot we don't understand about the brain still, and until we get a lot of that worked out, it's not happening. No one is going to willingly chop off an arm for an inferior replacement.

Models that exist "in the field" I imagine will be looked at similarly to wheelchairs, though they'll probably draw a lot of attention initially.

Genetic manipulation is going to be interesting. A lot of the development is going to depend upon how the patent wars over the human genetics end up playing out.

In either case, I see there being updates to the "rules of war" when necessary to ban the use of both for combat purposes.

It sounds like you're thinking about the Diamond Age. I'm not sure we'll see the level of advanced technology you're referring to for at least 100-200 years, and by then, it's difficult to tell what societal values will look like.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Trans-humans would eventually raise the bar and make 'traditional' humans a sort of underclass, if we wanted to compete we would have to step up to their level basically.

Theres actually been discussion about stimulants that are currently being developed that could theoretically allow you get by on less than an hour of sleep a night with no ill side effects and are supposed to improve your focus and mental acuity, the concern is that these would proliferate through the workforce to the point that if you wanted to keep your job and/or move up you would basically have to be on these stimulants in order to keep up with what would undoubtedly become 'top performers' who are using them to increase productivity.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

It will result in...
WARWORLD!

or thunderdome.
I haven't decided yet...

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
I have no problems with a peaceful movement to maintain the status quo/guarantee the rights of the conservatives, though I doubt they'd get much support from the cybernetic majority if they're agenda is to establish natural supremacy/have everyone's cybernetics torn out.

You didn't read what I said, whomever is in power will create laws and cultural norms to keep themselves in power. The remaining state of humanity will attempt to balance the scales. Things might be bloody, things might be peaceful, but we don't know. Like I have been saying, if we are to look at similar situations with unmodified human beings, we are fething terrible at including everyone.

Ugh, this is like arguing JoJo with the Primordial...

DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
 
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