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Afternoon, all.

A question for the readers of Black Library. Now I've heard this term before when it comes to the author Dan Abnett, the term 'Abnettverse' to describe the man's fiction.

It seems to be that the 'Abnettverse' has a general consensus of being considered non-canon, or made-up and not fitting in the Warhammer 40,000 general 'world.'

While he's not my favourite Black Library author, I think the guy's good at what he does, but I am inclined to half-agree in that I've found a few things in his work that seems to be his alone, I wouldn't consider his stuff 'Abnettverse, non-canon.'

Has anyone else come across this?

You say that like you're under the impression that there is canon in the first place, rather than a confusing mess of contradictory pieces of fluff all jumbled together to create 40k.

Generally, there is no "hard" check between Black Library and "Games Workshop" to make sure that Black Library stuff fits the game-publications.

If in doubt (i.e. if there is a "conflict"), I wouldn't consider Black Library canon, Dan Abnett or not.

All Black Library authors have "creative license" to put their own "spin" on things.

"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."
-- Gav Thorpe

"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."
-- Andy Hoare

"There is no canon. There's a variety of sources, many of which conflict, but every single one is a lens through which we can see the 40K setting."
-- Aaron Dembski-Bowden

That said, Dan Abnett arguably makes more use of his creative freedom than others, and he's basically helped build Black Library from the start, so he probably can get away with more than some of the newer authors.

Wot 'e said!

However, it makes sense that any individual author's stuff will have it's own internal consistency, even if it doesn't necessarily line up perfectly with every other piece of published fluff created in the last 25 years from the myriad of sources and writers - nor could it really be expected - and that's without even taking into consideration the number of retcons that have happened in that time.

PrinceRaven wrote:You say that like you're under the impression that there is canon in the first place, rather than a confusing mess of contradictory pieces of fluff all jumbled together to create 40k.

Well, there is some. Yes, I know the 'everything is true, and false,' mess that is Warhammer fluff, I'm not new to it, but there is some canon. Think not? Try writing that Space Marines carry lasguns (they used to), or all Space Marines are girls, or that the Tau are red skinned with horns, and watch the gak fly.

I was just asking whether this 'Abnettverse' thing is an actual thing, or whether it's just fan-boy cries of, 'Waaa, Abnett mis-canoned my whatever.'

Zweischneid wrote:
That said, Dan Abnett arguably makes more use of his creative freedom than others, and he's basically helped build Black Library from the start, so he probably can get away with more than some of the newer authors.

That's. Fair point, and probably where a lot of it steams from.

 Tower75 wrote:


Well, there is some. Yes, I know the 'everything is true, and false,' mess that is Warhammer fluff, I'm not new to it, but there is some canon. Think not? Try writing that Space Marines carry lasguns (they used to), or all Space Marines are girls, or that the Tau are red skinned with horns, and watch the gak fly.

Because the Codex Books/Rulebooks, etc ARE canon. If there is something written by ... say Robin Cruddace in the current Space Marines Codex, than even Dan Abnett cannot outright go against it. On the other hand, Black Library is generally not canon. If Robin Cruddace wants to write something into a new Space Marines Codex that would contradict something published in a Dan Abnett novel, he's free to do so

That said, there is (I think) no "hard check".

Black Library (so far) doesn't publish alternative Universe/Marvel Ultimates/etc.. stuff like that. I don't think you'll see a "Dornian Heresy" novel soon and if some author turns Sanguinius into the Primarch of the Space Wolves or Ghaz into an Eldar, some Editor somewhere will (hopefully) slap them.

They aren't gonna and (likely) never will go all-out-Lucasfilm trying to enforce something deserving the name "canon" in a strict sense of the word.

If there is a random line in a rule-book saying that all Imperial Guardsmen get mind-wiped/executed after fighting Chaos, but somebody at BL (like Dan Abnett and his Gaunt's Ghosts) has a cool story about Imperial Guard vs. Chaos that will contradict it, they'll always opt in favour of publishing/selling more books.

.

40k canon is really stretchable. There is are the codexes and the BRB, and of course the the miniatures, but apart from that, you can cheerfully ignore all or some other fluff (such as BL or FW fluff) or make up your own fluff.
If someone is complaining about some fictional 'abnettverse' than it is probably some weeping fanboy.
You are free to accept or ignore Abnett's fluff as you see fit.

Going by the authors statements, you could have a legion of red-skinned, horned Tau (although the horns would probably preclude them wearing helmets). However, anyone who doesn't agree with your interpretation will throw an absolute fit - the codex doesn't say Tau don't have horns, and it does say that their skin tone varies, becoming "more blue the closer to the sun their home planet is".

There's no contract between author and author, but there is a convention between players, and it's the convention that anything that 'breaks canon' has to contend with.

However, the only time an author has been 'slapped down' by the Black Library was when C.S. Goto's novels went out of print. However, many of his short stories are still in print.

I hear of this infamous C.S. Goto all the time. What, exactly, did this guy do?

Lasgun carrying carnifex. That is all that needs to be said about C.S. Goto.

Actually, no, it's not all that needs to be said.

The multilaser carnifex never actually happened, but it is along the same lines as his actual sins, which include future-blind, Slaanesh worshipping Craftworld Eldar (a Farseer, no less!), lone, flying Assault Marines winning aerial duels with Harridan bio-titans ... Eldar comitting suicide by breaking their soulstones...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, no, it's not all that needs to be said.

The multilaser carnifex never actually happened, but it is along the same lines as his actual sins, which include future-blind, Slaanesh worshipping Craftworld Eldar (a Farseer, no less!), lone, flying Assault Marines winning aerial duels with Harridan bio-titans ... Eldar comitting suicide by breaking their soulstones...

Bio-Titan?

Worst I could find was a Wave Serpent, thought it's fun (in a bad way) to read.

"With a blinding blast of red light, the Assault Marine's jump-pack went critical and its fuel cells detonated, firing him down towards the ground like a giant bolter shell. Even from where he was standing, Gabriel could see the Marine was working to release the grenades that were clipped around his belt, flinging them down into the formation of eldar below him even as he rocketed down towards them. The disciplined aliens seemed unphased (sic) for a fraction of a second, holding their firing vectors until they realised (sic) what was about to happen. Then, as the xenos creatures began to scatter away from the Wave Serpents, the string of grenades smacked into the ground and detonated all at once, blowing a huge crater into the desert and rocking the nearest Wave Serpent. In an instant, the Marine's jump-pack roared down towards the vehicle, spiralling (sic) on its axis now that it had been jettisoned by the Marine himself, until it punched heavily into the gunnery cockpit on top of the Wave Serpent, blowing it clean off the vehicle and engulfing the whole thing in a giant red fireball. The Marine himself ploughed (sic) down into the desert nearby."

- Dawn of War: Ascension.

How would a carnifex even hold a laagun? My guess is "extremely carefully"

 Furyou Miko wrote:
lone, flying Assault Marines winning aerial duels with Harridan bio-titans ...

I'm just wondering many days such a combat would last.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, no, it's not all that needs to be said.

The multilaser carnifex never actually happened, but it is along the same lines as his actual sins, which include future-blind, Slaanesh worshipping Craftworld Eldar (a Farseer, no less!), lone, flying Assault Marines winning aerial duels with Harridan bio-titans ... Eldar comitting suicide by breaking their soulstones...

And an Eldar tank being defeated by children armed with rocks. And a backflipping Terminator.

 Troike wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, no, it's not all that needs to be said.

The multilaser carnifex never actually happened, but it is along the same lines as his actual sins, which include future-blind, Slaanesh worshipping Craftworld Eldar (a Farseer, no less!), lone, flying Assault Marines winning aerial duels with Harridan bio-titans ... Eldar comitting suicide by breaking their soulstones...

And an Eldar tank being defeated by children armed with rocks. And a backflipping Terminator.

And multilasers. Multilasers everywhere...

Zweischneid wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, no, it's not all that needs to be said.

The multilaser carnifex never actually happened, but it is along the same lines as his actual sins, which include future-blind, Slaanesh worshipping Craftworld Eldar (a Farseer, no less!), lone, flying Assault Marines winning aerial duels with Harridan bio-titans ... Eldar comitting suicide by breaking their soulstones...

Bio-Titan?

Worst I could find was a Wave Serpent, thought it's fun (in a bad way) to read.

Warrior Brood.

Iron_Captain wrote:
And multilasers. Multilasers everywhere...

That one can be forgiven on Imperial stuff. Multilasers deserve to be more places.

Troike wrote:
And an Eldar tank being defeated by children armed with rocks. And a backflipping Terminator.

I only included the examples I remember reading personally. :p

To answer the OP, there is an Abnettverse. But there is a Gotoverse too, a McNeillverse, a Dembski-Bowdenverse, Wardverse, a Kellyverse and many others.

Every single writer has his/her own opinion about how the setting is to be described. And, as others have already quoted, it is the way the setting works.

Writers (and players) are supposed to play with the background, creating new stories and changing whatever they want to change. Imagination and creativity is encouraged in all aspects of the hobby.

Dan Abnett has quite good books, and others that are not that good. If you like it, enjoy it.

According to Abnett himself his editor(s) jokingly refers to the Sabbat Worlds Crusade as the "Daniverse".
It is mentioned in the foreword in one of his books. Can't remember which though.