Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The idea is relatively obvious, hit both flanks hard using the darkshrouds to conceal the bikes, lots of fast, hard hitting dakka units. Deathwing to sure up wherever needed, and two tac squads to hold back and midfield objectives. I know it wont be super competitive, but should be pretty strong and fun to play.

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1997

HQ: Sammael on Corvex (1#, 200 pts Warlord)
1 Sammael on Corvex

: Ravenwing Command Squad (3#, 155 pts)
1 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary
1 Ravenwing Champion

HQ: Belial (1#, 190 pts)
1 Belial

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 245 pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad + Chainfist x1 + Assault Cannon x1 + Deathwing Terminator Sergeant

Troops: Tactical Squad (10#, 185 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Plasma gun + Plasma Cannon
1 Sergeant + Plasma Pistol

Troops: Tactical Squad (10#, 175 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Power Sword

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 321 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x1 + Plasma gun x1 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder + Multi-melta + Multi-melta

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (3#, 126 pts)
2 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Support Squadron (3#, 200 pts)
3 Ravenwing Support Squadron + Assault Cannon x1 + Heavy Bolter x2

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 100 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud + Assault Cannon

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 100 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud + Assault Cannon

Let me know thoughts please!

I think with only one unit of bikes and one unit of terminators, you could easily get away with either sammy or belial, rather than both. I'd recommend dropping belial and replacing him with a libby (probably a libby on an bike) and add some prescience goodness to this army.

Also speeders with HBs are kinda meh. I recommend adding some typhoons to give you're army some nice ranged firepower.

The issue I have HQwise is that I'm using a dual FOC. So I need the bikes and termies to stay troops. I also want to run sammael on corvex, he's done really well for me in the past, so in order to keep the deathwing troops I take Belial! (Who I also like quite a lot and tends to do well for me)

I'll look into the typhoons, not sure where to drag the extra points from? I need to find 30 points!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, I've made some changes! If I drop the attack bike and land speeder from the attack squad, I can add a forth speeder to the support squad, and separate them down into two squads of two. One squad will have typhoon missile launchers and heavy bolters on each, the other will have multi meltas and assault cannons on each. I like it!

if you run belial and sammy, drop all tac squads, capitalise on it man! all or nothing!

use only one darkshroud you only need one i promise.
you can make the RWC a squad of 5 i recommend it, get the most out of the FNP.

also unless you face walkers you don't need the chainfist unless you face a land raider or a walker so keep that in mind. (the attacks in cc always go on rear armour to clarify)

also if you take 2 full squads of bikers, then i recommend the banner of devastation on the bikes, this makes all the bikes within the bubble salvo and cause they be relentless they always rain bullets.

I was strongly considering dropping the tac squads entirely, and going for pure dual wing, but the tac squads were there for a solid core.

I have 2 dark shrouds on purpose, 1 on each flank. 1 flank will house Sammy, RWC, 3 bikes and 2 speeders, the other flank will have the black knights, other 3 bikes and other 2 speeders. Having 2 shrouds was to give both flanks cover!

My point about dropping belial is while he's not a bad beat stick, he's not amazing. a libby would take you a lot farther in terms of force multiplication. Also, one unit of scoring DW probably isn't going to get you far as it's fairly easy to kill. At least if they're elites they can still contest and grab you linebreaker.

If you want to take RW and DW as a scoring unit, drop both HQs, and take Azrael and bring a low cost Librarian for divination abilities to boost your troops.

Not sure what the point difference is but you'll knock out both wings as troops with Azrael alone. Saves you from playing with points with belial and sammael

But I LOVE sammael, and althiugh wanting to be a little competitive, I'm not concerned about being super competitive, so sammael stays!

nah don't take azrael, its more points to take belial and sammy but it's a bigger point SINK to take azrael. he cant deepstrike he cant move 12, and while you could stick him with devs to get a 4++ a libby can do it with PFG for 30 points.

You could take him with a vet squad in a LR but the points to do that will take a huge bite out of your army.

I have azrael, but I don't find decent uses for him at 215 points! I think sammael and Belial are better! And sammael I have to keep. I love him on corvex. But as I'm using a dual FOC because of my fast attack intensive force I need 2 HQ and 4 Troops, so Belial fits that slot as a decent HQ that makes the deathwing troops. It also means they will never deepstrike scatter!

Ditch the tacs for more DW or RW

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
The idea is relatively obvious, hit both flanks hard using the darkshrouds to conceal the bikes, lots of fast, hard hitting dakka units. Deathwing to sure up wherever needed, and two tac squads to hold back and midfield objectives. I know it wont be super competitive, but should be pretty strong and fun to play.

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1997

HQ: Sammael on Corvex (1#, 200 pts Warlord)
1 Sammael on Corvex

: Ravenwing Command Squad (3#, 155 pts)
1 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary
1 Ravenwing Champion

Take a Banner here, seriously, even if its just the Ravenwing Company Banner for those auto-super-hit-and-runs. The Standard of Devastation should be strongly considered if you take more RW Bikers too.

The Champion is a bit pointless as his weapon is basically a downgrade, this unit already minces Marines in shooting and well enough in CC, especially if you're throwing Sammy in. Rending has more widespread application against MC's, vehicles and Terminators.

HQ: Belial (1#, 190 pts)
1 Belial

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 245 pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad + Chainfist x1 + Assault Cannon x1 + Deathwing Terminator Sergeant

If this is the only Deathwing you're going to take I wouldn't bother with including Belial, instead I'd either increase the number of Termies here and either way dramatically increase the number of Thunderhammer/Storm Shield guys, because without them this unit's life expectancy will be pitiful.

Troops: Tactical Squad (10#, 185 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Plasma gun + Plasma Cannon
1 Sergeant + Plasma Pistol

Eh, its alright as a home objective sitter but the plasma pistol is a waste of points, if anything give him Veteran Sarge so you're less likely to lose a game on an unlucky 25% casualty check/tankshock.

Troops: Tactical Squad (10#, 175 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Power Sword

2 things here: If you give a Tactical Squad melta (which I would be skeptical with at the best of times as a reliable source of AT) a drop pod or a Rhino is mandatory, period. They'll never get in range if you footslog it.

Also, power sword. Urrrgh. There's no need for it and it doesn't change the units the squad can take on in CC one bit.

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 321 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x1 + Plasma gun x1 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder + Multi-melta + Multi-melta

I'd take more RW Bikers if you take a Banner on the RWCS, but that's about it.

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (3#, 126 pts)
2 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

I'm not entirely impressed by this unit but I can see how you'd probably just place them with the RWCS and build a more formidable unit.

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Support Squadron (3#, 200 pts)
3 Ravenwing Support Squadron + Assault Cannon x1 + Heavy Bolter x2

Heavy Bolter Land Speeders are absolutely overpriced garbage, the Assault Cannon one I can just about see the reasoning for taking if you took two.

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 100 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud + Assault Cannon

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 100 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud + Assault Cannon

You don't really have enough RW Bikers to justify taking two Dark Shrouds, I'd just stick with the one and horde your Bikers together in the 12'' bubble unless you're particularly fearful of Riptides.

Let me know thoughts please!

OK team, I've taken some of the points on board, not all of them but some of them. It will mean buying more models, but I'm ok with that. Let me know what you think of the updates....

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1997

HQ: Sammael on Corvex (1#, 200 pts, warlord)
1 Sammael on Corvex

: Ravenwing Command Squad (5#, 250 pts)
5 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary
1 Ravenwing Champion
1 Ravenwing Company Banner

HQ: Belial (1#, 190 pts)
1 Belial

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 250 pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad + Chainfist x2 + Assault Cannon x1 + Deathwing Terminator Sergeant

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (6#, 186 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x1 + Plasma gun x1 + Ravenwing Sergeant

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (6#, 186 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x1 + Plasma gun x1 + Ravenwing Sergeant

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Support Squadron (2#, 150 pts)
2 Ravenwing Support Squadron + Typhoon Missile Launcher x2

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Support Squadron (2#, 180 pts)
2 Ravenwing Support Squadron + Multi-melta x2 + Assault Cannon x2

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 100 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud + Assault Cannon

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 100 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud + Assault Cannon

Your going to want the tac squad to stay back and hold your own objective and/or provide long range fire support so no need for the pod and swap the melts for longer range stuff (plas and missile/las maybe)

 Brother Payne wrote:
Your going to want the tac squad to stay back and hold your own objective and/or provide long range fire support so no need for the pod and swap the melts for longer range stuff (plas and missile/las maybe)

Yeah, I concur. The home objective squad is definitely mandatory here more than the DP squad, and just as another thing you might want to consider Sniper Scouts too.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:
Your going to want the tac squad to stay back and hold your own objective and/or provide long range fire support so no need for the pod and swap the melts for longer range stuff (plas and missile/las maybe)

Yeah, I concur. The home objective squad is definitely mandatory here more than the DP squad, and just as another thing you might want to consider Sniper Scouts too.

Or sniper scouts instead of the tac squad...

Drop the AssCans from the Darkshrouds. They are fire magnets, since killing them makes everything else more vulnerable. THerefore you want to TB them every turn instead of shooting, those... what, 40 points? are invested better on another place, like an additiional bike with a melter for 37 pts.

I don't think I will turbo boost them, I need to keep them in range...and considering they have a 3+ cover as standard just for moving! I reckon they're not too flimsy!

So much wrong here.

The tacs are garbage. Don't take them. If you are worried about holding a home objective put it out of sight and have a biker combat squad or even better an attack bike (which you need to add) sit on it. Or within turbo boosting range. Objectives are absolutely not a problem with Ravenwing.

Never take plasma on a RAS squad. Ever. Look at the cost for a plasma biker and then look at the cost for a black knight, who's plasma is twin linked, on a bike with skilled rider, higher leadership, and way, way more close combat ability. No brainer. Take the 2 meltas. Or nothing.

You don't really need to FOCS here. You can make the RWSS bigger, or you can just add speeders to the troops squads if you are worried about wound wrapping, which is not nearly as bad as it used to be. I always take them with the squad since there are no drawbacks.

You don't really want assault cannons on speeders because there is way too much stuff that can kill you inside 24 inches. Way better to hang back and fling missiles at stuff. The TML speeder is pretty good. It can nibble at MCs or batter light/medium vehicles if you take enough of them.

As has been stated earlier, you don't need the assault cannon on the darkshroud. It's actually a bad thing to take. Don't take it-- not only does it cost you points, but it makes you do stupid stuff with the shroud, like not turbo boost every single turn of the game. A 2+ cover save is twice as durable as a 3+ cover save, and you need that vehicle to stay alive to increase the toughness of your bikes. A lot more than you need the 1 marine a turn you can fry with an assault cannon.

I have used two darkshrouds before and I don't hate it but the darkshroud is really more like a piece of wargear that can be separately destroyed than it is a unit, in terms of the way it is played. If you are rolling with a bunch of RAS you are going to want the D banner and if you have the D banner you are going to be pretty clumped up. The darkshroud is great for that. Right now you barely have enough bikes to justify taking a single shroud, much less two.

The terminators are alright as they let you contest an objective that is on the second floor of a building. Don't think that you have to have them for close combat though. Black Knights are pretty brutal in assault, especially as they get the bonuses from the grenades and the plasma before they hit. Consider how on a regular table facing each other, an equal value of black knights will destroy an equal value of deathwing terminators almost every single time.

Just dedicate them as elites and drop belail and use the points to upgrade them to Deathwing Knights.

I would do something like

Sam
Command Squad, Apoc, Ravenwing Standard

Librarian, Telepathy, motorcycle
Command Squad, Apoc

5 Deathwing Knights

Dark Shroud

12 Black Knights (2x6)

As many RAS with TML and 2 melta / melta attack bikes as you can afford before points limit. Probably 2.

With that you can fragment into... 8 scoring units if you have too, all of which can nuke a land raider. You have serious close combat ability with the deathwing knights and also the black knights. Roll on telepathy with the librarian (everything is twin linked so divination is meh) and try to get Hallucination, otherwise Psychic Shriek is pretty good and pairs well with the squads plasma talons.

Keep the RAS in reserve and start all the commanders and black knights. Call down the Deathwing Knights turn 2 with the homers on the black knights and watch the bad guys vanish under 40 plasma shots (twin linked!) and then, I don't know how many, but a butt-ton of S5 rending attacks. Plus hammer of wrath. Plus they are at reduced WS, I and T.

They get one turn before this brick hits... and their is a 50 % chance that during that turn the entire army has a 2+ cover save.

That is how you do that.

Now THAT is an extensive and well reasoned/written advice!

I agree! Follow the advice given. A Ravenwing list is really brainless these days. The more knights you have the better.

Silverthorne, thank you. That is a fantastic amount of advice on dark angels. I am going to jump on army builder any minute and compile a new list. I'm not going to do everything you have suggested, but I am going to take a huge amount into consideration. Thank you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, so taking on board a LOT of the points made, but also keeping some of the models in this lost that I wan to keep in, I have put together this list - tac squads are gone, I do have more black knights, let me know what you think?

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1997

HQ: Sammael on Corvex (1#, 200 pts, Warlord)
1 Sammael on Corvex

HQ: Belial (1#, 190 pts)
1 Belial

: Ravenwing Command Squad (5#, 250 pts)
3 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary
1 Ravenwing Champion
1 Ravenwing Company Banner

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (5#, 210 pts)
4 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (5#, 210 pts)
4 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 80 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 311 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 311 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 235 pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad + Plasma Cannon x1 + Deathwing Terminator Sergeant

Ok kids, so do I have no further suggestions?

This list is much better.

Is the whole thing with Belail just because that is the model you are working with?

What do you want the terminators to do? Are they for scoring? Or close combat... I'm not real clear on their mission on the battlefield.

I would recommend proxying them as Knights for a while, and trade Belail for a Terminator Librarian. Remember you don't really need the extra scoring... Just reserve the troop guys and then combat squad them. That's 6 scoring units. Usually they will be attrited to a guy or two each, so they are super easy to hide.

I do like this list much better though, and even if you change nothing (although I think you should) you will not be at like an immediate disadvantage.

My reasons for Belial, and not for deathwing knights.

Deathwing knights are close combat orientated, and CC in 6th Ed is pretty terrible. They are slow, so they'd be better deep striking, but they cannot charge the turn they arrive. If I deep strike them turn 1 without Belial, they can scatter, and they sit there for a whole turn before they are able to do anything. Normal termies kitted with shooty weapons and with Belial will never scatter no matter whether I bring them in turn 1 or 2, and they are twin linked when they land. 5 storm bolters and a plasma cannon twin linked on the turn they arrive can cause a serious hole! The fact that he makes them scoring is a bonus, and means I can drop them in an objective. That's my thoughts anyway.

For the same price you could get two more units of knights, rather then helical and some terminators, I know it's abit spammy, personally If I were going to use terminators I'd make it a squad of ten not scattering for some serious shooting

Points is the issue there, I don't have the points for 10 termies...and if I did, I probably wouldn't spend them on termies. Taking 2 more squads of knights is a nice idea, but can't work, as it involves a dual FOC, I contemplated attempting to convert a librarian onto a bike and taking a second command squad as suggested earlier...I think that's an even better option than two squads of knights!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, how about this instead of Belial?

2000 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1997

HQ: Sammael on Corvex (1#, 200 pts, Warlord)
1 Sammael on Corvex

: Ravenwing Command Squad (5#, 250 pts)
3 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary
1 Ravenwing Champion
1 Ravenwing Company Banner

HQ: Librarian (1#, 195 pts)
1 Librarian + Increase Mastery Level x1 + Displacer Field + Space Marine Bike + Shroud of Heroes

: Ravenwing Command Squad (5#, 230 pts)
4 Ravenwing Command Squad
1 Ravenwing Apothecary

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 311 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (8#, 311 pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker + Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (5#, 210 pts)
4 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Black Knights (5#, 210 pts)
4 Ravenwing Black Knights
1 Ravenwing Huntmaster

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Darkshroud (1#, 80 pts)
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud

Ok, so I won't take the shroud of hero's, and that free's the points up to swap the ravenwing banner for the banner of devastation...