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I believe this belongs in YMDC. This is a HYWPI question.

The scenario: About to play a 1500 point game with a friend. He says his list is 1535 points. I ask him to trim it down a bit since 35 points over can be a few models. He gets upset by this.

The question: What sort of overspending limits do you play with? How would you handle it if your opponent was over or asked you to trim your list? Being that I have no tournament experience, how do tournaments handle it?

Appreciate any feedback (and hope it remains civil ).

At my local gaming group, if two people agree in advance to have a 1500 point game, then both lists are AT MOST 1500 points. Everyone except one guy is really good about this, and that last guy will always downsize with a gentle reminder.

Between my friends in tends to work out like this:
-Set a points limit
-Try to get as close to that limit as possible (If you get to 10 points under, but can take an extra CSM for 13 points, take the marine)
-Inform opponent of how much you overspent by before the battle
-Opponent get to choose an upgrade to make it to that limit (or doesn't bother)

A gentle reminder is all you can really do, beyond refusing to play. Just say that you would really rather that you both stick to the agreed points limit. Part of the challenge in list building is finding a way to fit what you need into the limit, and finding the right compromise.

It's kind of analogous to exceeding the FOC limits. Would your opponent allow you to take 4 Heavy Support choices, just because you couldn't come to a compromise?

In a tournament, the player would simply not be allowed to participate unless they could amend their list. Most tournaments (at least, the ones I've been to) have a list validation system where you have to submit your list before the event. Any illegal lists would require resubmission until they were legal.

That all said, it's not unreasonable to make a narrative scenario where one player has more points than the other, but that would still require an agreement with your opponent.

Personally, since the point limit you set is arbitrary to begin with you might as well follow it to the point because if your going to go over the point limit you should have set the limit to that to begin with it.

We usually don't allow going over. Its just a rude imposition to ask to go over a predetermined limit, however every once in a while some one NEEDS to go over because they really really want to try out a new unit/stratagey or something and there is no way to make it work in a small game. That usually happens at the 750 point level with us though and then is 5 or 10 points max, 35 is an awful lot.

How I would deal with a friend who is going to get offended or upset and the need to scale his force back? Offer to player a larger game next time. My group almost never plays 1 on 1, and 750 per player or 1500 per side is the norm. But we've got baneblades and thunderhawks, heck one guy has an entire company of marines so you can image we might also want to play some bigger games. So we try and fit an all day game in now and then (once every 6 months it seems) where we can play something like 2000 points a player in a 2 vs 2 game. So, I guess what I'm saying is offer to play larger games every now and then but remind your friend gently that its a points limit not a points suggestion.

Under as much as you like, 0 over.
If people go over we usually grant a boon to the opposing player.
Last time, it was 1 kill point for every point over.
Try winning when you're 35 KP in the hole before you start.

You can be up to zero points over the point limit. If you are over the point limit then you remove things from your list until you are under the point limit. No other resolution is necessary.

(And of course if you deliberately go over the point limit without telling your opponent you're a TFG cheater and nobody should ever play with you again.)

If you set the game up to 1500, then play at 1500. If he needs a bit more points (I think 35 are too many), you two can agree to set a margin of excess - in my area, we usually allow +1% points if necessary, rounding down (so, +7 points for a 750p game; +10 for a 1000p game). If you do not agree with such margin before game, it's a no go. Of course, this house rule applies to both sides.

I would never be able to ask anyone if I could go over. I agreed to a 1500 point game and I would trim my list down to make it come out to 1500 or less. I guess I look at it like this, We said 1500 and that is where the cut off is ... anything more is a breach of my word and I would never allow myself to change what we previously agreed to without both of us agreeing to make a change. For example, upping the points to 2000 instead of 1500.

I mean what I say and I say what I mean. To go over the agreed amount is, in my mind, a poor practice that develops into other poor practices.

We just had this question pop up in general.

As we are in the Rules section, I would use the "RAW' method. check the rulebook to see what it says. Consider the terms of the game as a contract that is written out. If it says 1500 points that that would be the limit.

Personally, it depends on who I'm playing. A seasoned player, trim it down or bring mine up to match (although that is still often that little bit unbalanced. The large the gap the larger the possibility of the unbalance. If it is a new or inexperienced or just not very good player, i dont care, lets play.

I give 1%, I.E. anywhere from 1485-1515, 1980-2020, etc.

I really don't think it's worth getting that worked up over.

Same question I prompted in another similar thread, different words:
Why set a mutually agreed on limit, if you "plan" to exceed it?

The limit is part of the difficulty of list-building, after all...
Just visualize this:

"Yes, officer, the speed limit is 55 mph and I was driving at 60, but..."

It's really not a big deal either way, but it's pretty rude for someone to expect whoever they're playing to allow them to be over the point limit.

I recall, when I first started playing, my buddy coming in at 5pts over and explaining that it was no big deal. I didn't really care, as I was just happy to be playing/learning the game. I also didn't want to appear rude, as it's just 5pts. Now that we've all been around the block a bit and I spend WAY too much time squeezing everything I can out of every point while staying under the proposed limit, I have no issue telling someone that it is NOT ok for them to be over the agreed upon limit.

If you spent the time planning out your list to be fair, they should have to as well. If they ask for more points, THEY'RE the one that's being rude by expecting you to accept the handicap.

Some players consider it a sign of disrespect. The 35 point over the limit, goes beond being a sign of disrespect and goes towards being a slap in the face. of course, that is just my opinion. As a sign of respect for my opponant, I ALWAYS stay at the limit or lower. I'f I am lower, i can always toss on a searchlight, extra bolt pistol or something to bring it to the limit but NEVER over it. As someone else pointed out, I am as good as my word and follow the rules.
I pointed out treating it like a written contract mostly because we ARE currently posting in the YMDC forum where opinions and "how we would play it' are secondary to what is actually in the rules.

I'll go under a fair amount before going over at all. Unless you both agree to go up to the next point level then it needs to stay capped at 1500.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I give 10%, I.E. anywhere from 1485-1515, 1980-2020, etc.

I really don't think it's worth getting that worked up over.

You mean 1% ? 10% would be 150pts at 1500.

I'd have no problem asking for that persons' list and then pointing out something that is worth roughly 35 points and saying 'that no longer exists on your list. agreed?'

A few points over (<6) I tend not to care, but 35 points is at least one extra model that should not be there.

I'd concur with everyone saying: 'why agree to a point limit of 1500 when what they seemingly want to play is a 1535 point game?'

Yea I myself don't mind if it's a few points over like 1505 I won't care about.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I give 10%, I.E. anywhere from 1485-1515, 1980-2020, etc.

I really don't think it's worth getting that worked up over.

That'd be 1%

10% looks like:

1350-1650

 Peregrine wrote:
You can be up to zero points over the point limit. If you are over the point limit then you remove things from your list until you are under the point limit. No other resolution is necessary.

(And of course if you deliberately go over the point limit without telling your opponent you're a TFG cheater and nobody should ever play with you again.)

I'm with Peregrine on this one. That point limit is there for a reason, and I hate to say this, but 5 -10 points can go a long way when your clever. Too many people could ask, "Hey, mind if I am 5 points over? You can take 5 as well." and that 5 points being stuck with something mildly crappy and suddenly dropping that for a beautiful pair of screw you lascannon sponsons. If someone was fairly short, but with just 5 points over, they can take a shiny new stormraven gunship, that really isn't all that fair. You can easily just trick your opponent with that simple question which makes them think "melta bomb sergeant" while you say "Thanks for the Stormraven." You either take 10 to trim off the fat, or we have problems. I made the sacrifices and built a legal list, you should too.

Our group has played with about 3pts over, usually due to certain codexes having weird points costs thrown in there.
Personally i tend to play with 1-2 points under when i can't get it perfect.

And 'I will just drop something' is a form of list tailoring.

Oh? I am dropping Melta bombs against nids and power fist to power sword against orks?

Let me drop the least needed wargear for this opponent, now I have a legal list!

In tourney's that would be a 'sideboard'. If only one person has it, it is not fair.

0 points over. Too bad. No excuses.

Fragile wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I give 10%, I.E. anywhere from 1485-1515, 1980-2020, etc.

I really don't think it's worth getting that worked up over.

You mean 1% ? 10% would be 150pts at 1500.

Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I give 10%, I.E. anywhere from 1485-1515, 1980-2020, etc.

I really don't think it's worth getting that worked up over.

That'd be 1%

10% looks like:

1350-1650

Yes yes, I just realized my mistake. I edited it for completeness' sake - sorry lads.

Being over by even 1 point is cheating, and absolutely unacceptable. The point limit is set for a reason.

No one can fault you for winning with a 1499 point army. But 1501 is too much.

It's very disrespectful to your opponent to agree to a points limit and then show up over that limit. I'd be more than a little bit annoyed with someone who did that, possibly to the point of refusing to play them if they weren't prepared to stick to what we'd agreed.

I've allowed opponents to go over by 5 or 10 points. But 35 is just ridiculous.

from the Size of Game rules on page 108: "...if you decide to play a 2,000-point game, then neither player can spend more than 2,000 points on their army..." that said, it also indicates: "...sometimes it's just impossible to spend every last point. Indeed, to get around this, most players are happy to let their opponent go a few points over the agreed total - after all, a few points here or there are unlikely to upset the battle's course..."

Given the above, GW clearly indicates that you should not go over by a single point, but also recommends not sweating the small stuff because of the often-times awkward point costs associated with certain things.

Good advice, I'd say.

 Neorealist wrote:
from the Size of Game rules on page 108: "...if you decide to play a 2,000-point game, then neither player can spend more than 2,000 points on their army..." that said, it also indicates: "...sometimes it's just impossible to spend every last point. Indeed, to get around this, most players are happy to let their opponent go a few points over the agreed total - after all, a few points here or there are unlikely to upset the battle's course..."

Given the above, GW clearly indicates that you should not go over by a single point, but also recommends not sweating the small stuff because of the often-times awkward point costs associated with certain things.

Good advice, I'd say.

Exactly. Every time I make a list, I ensure that it is below or at the targeted limit. However, like I said, I give my opponents a 1% benefit-of-the-doubt; that is, I doubt a 1% change is going to meaningfully affect the battle and if it does, eh, no biggie. The worst I can do is lose!

Both players have to be on the same page to play and enjoy 40k.

If you want to follow the rules by restricting yourself to the points limit, and your opponent wants to ignore the rules and be 35 points over, then you either convince them to follow the rules, ignore the rules and accept it, or not play them.