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 Grot 6 wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Cult troops allowed in Undivided legions would give me the right excuse to keep using the old metal Plague Marines on my Night Lords army that i have so many of! My own headcannon fluff has been a combined campaign of those two legions due to the fact that their Primarchs kinda didnt hate eachother.

Then I just use the superior Plague Marines for Death Guard tm

That sounds about right, and when the time cones, just mix them in with the other squads. Different sized figures seems to be the goal that GW is attempting.

I have an amazing Guard army of GI Joes if that is the case! And He Man daemon princes! With Transformer daemon engines.

I take it that you haven't seen Guliman in the flesh, yet?


You honestly have missed a great chance to be snarky with the irony of your own post.

I was trying to be snarky and ironic without being over the top. Miscue. My toy story can't wait to be told.

Take aways from the video, we lost a ton of unit entries. Lords, sorcerors on bikes, gone. Jugger lords, gone. Palaquins, disxs and steeds, gone, I also didn't see jump pack characters.

Now on the plus side, we somehow managed to keep all the crap in the gear section that isn't available in any of the boxes. Terminator combi plasma is still in as well as power swords for those termies lol.

Oblits have 4 shots now.

Exalted champion is in now and has an aura that lets you reroll failed to wound rolls in the fight phase within 6. This guy and a dark aopstle will make berserkers very efficient.

I have mixed feeling on the relics. Murder sword is nuts now IMO. Pick an enemy character at the games start, whenever you attack that model with the murder sword your hits automatically cause mortal wounds lol. You could send a tricked out khorne lord into Bobby G and seriously mess him up, use a demon round CP and you could solo him lol. The rest are pretty meh. Ace of blind fury is still in and also strong, black mace is there but n=both are worse.

Tons more in that video.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Take aways from the video, we lost a ton of unit entries. Lords, sorcerors on bikes, gone. Jugger lords, gone. Palaquins, disxs and steeds, gone, I also didn't see jump pack characters.

Now on the plus side, we somehow managed to keep all the crap in the gear section that isn't available in any of the boxes. Terminator combi plasma is still in as well as power swords for those termies lol.

Oblits have 4 shots now.

Exalted champion is in now and has an aura that lets you reroll failed to wound rolls in the fight phase within 6. This guy and a dark aopstle will make berserkers very efficient.

I have mixed feeling on the relics. Murder sword is nuts now IMO. Pick an enemy character at the games start, whenever you attack that model with the murder sword your hits automatically cause mortal wounds lol. You could send a tricked out khorne lord into Bobby G and seriously mess him up, use a demon round CP and you could solo him lol. The rest are pretty meh. Ace of blind fury is still in and also strong, black mace is there but n=both are worse.

Tons more in that video.

Sorcs and lords can take jump packs. The psychic powers is where we really lucked out, IMO. And the black mace is absolutely amazing

 Eldarain wrote:
Actually excited to see the attempt at making the Word Bearers article enticing.

The warlord trait is the only thing I see they could even pretend is worthwhile. And, tbf, it is a good warlord trait for a dark apostle in particular.

Is the burning brand still in?

SilverAlien wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Actually excited to see the attempt at making the Word Bearers article enticing.

The warlord trait is the only thing I see they could even pretend is worthwhile. And, tbf, it is a good warlord trait for a dark apostle in particular.

I could see them using the re-roll morale saves to sell word bearers as the Legion to pick if you want to run large blobs.

if you wanted to run a army using large blobs of cultists and or chaos space marines (who can be taken in squads of 20, not that anyone ever does

I'm not saying this is GOOD, but I could see that being the best use for Word bearers.

If I saw it correctly plaguebearers and Horrors got cheaper!

BrianDavion wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Actually excited to see the attempt at making the Word Bearers article enticing.

The warlord trait is the only thing I see they could even pretend is worthwhile. And, tbf, it is a good warlord trait for a dark apostle in particular.

I could see them using the re-roll morale saves to sell word bearers as the Legion to pick if you want to run large blobs.

if you wanted to run a army using large blobs of cultists and or chaos space marines (who can be taken in squads of 20, not that anyone ever does

I'm not saying this is GOOD, but I could see that being the best use for Word bearers.

It's just so bad. With the offensive power out there the only blobs worth running are immune to morale. re-rolling when you are taking substantial morale losses regardless is just awful.

Plaguebearer, Bloodletters, and Daemonettes all reduced to 7 pts.
Pink Horrors 8 pts, Blue Horrors 5 pts, Brimstones 3 pts.
Noise Marines 15pts, Sonic Blaster still 4 pts.

Melionodr wrote:
If I saw it correctly plaguebearers and Horrors got cheaper!

Horrors are 8/5/3, rather than their current 10/5/2. I don't think that will convince anyone to run a pink but shrug.

I'm not really sure what their aim was with including the daemon troops in the CSM codex. You can't really use them since you lose all of your Legion bonuses by including them. If they were given the same clause as the Fallen where they don't affect your ability to get Legion bonuses then it would have been fine.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Take aways from the video, we lost a ton of unit entries. Lords, sorcerors on bikes, gone. Jugger lords, gone. Palaquins, disxs and steeds, gone, I also didn't see jump pack characters.

Now on the plus side, we somehow managed to keep all the crap in the gear section that isn't available in any of the boxes. Terminator combi plasma is still in as well as power swords for those termies lol.

Oblits have 4 shots now.

Exalted champion is in now and has an aura that lets you reroll failed to wound rolls in the fight phase within 6. This guy and a dark aopstle will make berserkers very efficient.

I have mixed feeling on the relics. Murder sword is nuts now IMO. Pick an enemy character at the games start, whenever you attack that model with the murder sword your hits automatically cause mortal wounds lol. You could send a tricked out khorne lord into Bobby G and seriously mess him up, use a demon round CP and you could solo him lol. The rest are pretty meh. Ace of blind fury is still in and also strong, black mace is there but n=both are worse.

Tons more in that video.

Hoo boy. The cull happened but not as we expected. We kept our armoury and somehow kept Terminator combi-plasma and power swords but lost Khorne Juggerlords? Do GW realise they've never produced Terminator combi-plasma but DID produce a Jugger Lord from 2nd ed and some from RT era as well? Characters on bikes - to be expected after the SM cull but a bit disappointed - especially when you consider Doomrider is a great Slaaneshi Lord on Bike.

Palanquin being gone makes me sad. Discs and Steeds are sad - Discs are a slap in the face to Tzeentch players especially as Discs are so available for conversion purpose - certainly more so than fething Combi-Plasma for Terminators

Exalted Champion is our Lieutenant equivalent. Ok. When are we getting an Ancient equivalent then?

Also - Daemons are in the book? What?

Why do we have Daemons in our book? Couldn't they have FAQ'd the points drop and...I dunno...actually given us rules that they've produced models for (Juggerlords, Palanquins and Discs please)?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Take aways from the video, we lost a ton of unit entries. Lords, sorcerors on bikes, gone. Jugger lords, gone. Palaquins, disxs and steeds, gone, I also didn't see jump pack characters.

Now on the plus side, we somehow managed to keep all the crap in the gear section that isn't available in any of the boxes. Terminator combi plasma is still in as well as power swords for those termies lol.

Oblits have 4 shots now.

Exalted champion is in now and has an aura that lets you reroll failed to wound rolls in the fight phase within 6. This guy and a dark aopstle will make berserkers very efficient.

I have mixed feeling on the relics. Murder sword is nuts now IMO. Pick an enemy character at the games start, whenever you attack that model with the murder sword your hits automatically cause mortal wounds lol. You could send a tricked out khorne lord into Bobby G and seriously mess him up, use a demon round CP and you could solo him lol. The rest are pretty meh. Ace of blind fury is still in and also strong, black mace is there but n=both are worse.

Tons more in that video.

Hoo boy. The cull happened but not as we expected. We kept our armoury and somehow kept Terminator combi-plasma and power swords but lost Khorne Juggerlords? Do GW realise they've never produced Terminator combi-plasma but DID produce a Jugger Lord from 2nd ed and some from RT era as well? Characters on bikes - to be expected after the SM cull but a bit disappointed - especially when you consider Doomrider is a great Slaaneshi Lord on Bike.

Palanquin being gone makes me sad. Discs and Steeds are sad - Discs are a slap in the face to Tzeentch players especially as Discs are so available for conversion purpose - certainly more so than fething Combi-Plasma for Terminators

Exalted Champion is our Lieutenant equivalent. Ok. When are we getting an Ancient equivalent then?

Also - Daemons are in the book? What?

Why do we have Daemons in our book? Couldn't they have FAQ'd the points drop and...I dunno...actually given us rules that they've produced models for (Juggerlords, Palanquins and Discs please)?

The 4 Daemon units also lack Daemon as a faction keyword, the only have it has a regular keyword.

I suppose they're their for summoning? (Since with Dark Pact being the Word Bearer's stratagem GW maybe have decided to put some summonable units in the codex for new players).

that's a hell of a lot of options for Plague Marines, from what I was able to squint at:

- 2 plague marines can get plague spewer, plague butcher, blight launcher or special weapons
- ANY plague marine can swap bolter for bubonic axe or another Plague Knife
- Up to two may replace bolter for Bubonic Axe or Mace of Contagion
- Up to two may replace bolter for Bubonic Axe or Flail of Corruption
- One Plague Marine can take the Icon of Despair

some of them are a little redundant (Any marine can replace bolter with bubonic axe *and* two plague marines may replace bolter for bubonic axe?) but it's interesting to see how melee focused they've made the options

Still no bloody Bolt Pistols though

Looks like Cultists are down to 4pts and Warpsmiths down to 45, along with Preds being 90 like Loyalists and Vindicators being 135!

Arachnofiend wrote:

Melionodr wrote:
If I saw it correctly plaguebearers and Horrors got cheaper!

Horrors are 8/5/3, rather than their current 10/5/2. I don't think that will convince anyone to run a pink but shrug.

I'm not really sure what their aim was with including the daemon troops in the CSM codex. You can't really use them since you lose all of your Legion bonuses by including them. If they were given the same clause as the Fallen where they don't affect your ability to get Legion bonuses then it would have been fine.

As far as I could tell, you can keep your legion tactics and use the daemon troops.

The only requirement for legion tactics is that all units in the detachment are from the same legion. Daemons don't have legions. If you have four units of Black Legion terminators and one unit of bloodletters, you get black legion tactics. If you have four units of black legion terminators, one unit of bloodletters, and one unit of alpha legion havocs, you do not get legion tactics.

I agree it's kind of odd to have the troops in the book, but you can take them in the same detachment and still get legion tactics.

Most Daemons getting a 2pts discount is massive that is 20pts saved per msu and 60pts saved per max squad that can add up allot on an entire army.

Miniwargamer Dave has a sit and talk up, I am bringing it here because he states a couple minutes in "I've seen the new Abaddon..."

Thought you heretics may want to speculate on that!

https://youtu.be/HT-6h3fiS2Y

Edit: he just says new Abaddon, so it may be his stats. Ignore me I was excited for you chaos worshipping monsters.

Alpha Legion best legion. If I ever did start a chaos marines army it would be them.

It looks from the video like Mutilators are unchanged, but have gone down 15pts. I still think they're smelly.

As others have noted, Obliterators are the same points, but are now Assault 4. They are slightly less smelly. And their models still stink.

Abaddon looks slightly cheaper, in the 10pt range.

And, most exciting, it looks like Defilers have gone down, with no change to its stats. Guys, it's gone down by 60 points!!!

Seems like Dinobots are unchanged as well :(

Trollbert wrote:
Seems like Dinobots are unchanged as well :(

Yep, dissappointed in that.

I wonder why Exalted Champions didn't come out in the Index, we had a model for it and they had rules for it as well...

At least Dinobots get a boost via the stratagem that lets them reroll all failed and wound rolls. Might be worth taking, especially when you can give the maulerfiend +1S and +2attacks with the psychic power.

No Cult "Troops", World Eaters Sorcerers (with mark of slaanesh) and the loss of Juggerlords make me sad...

TonyH122 wrote:
And, most exciting, it looks like Defilers have gone down, with no change to its stats. Guys, it's gone down by 60 points!!!

Indeed, also, Maulerfiends look to have gotten a 9 point reduction as well. And Warpsmiths are down a hefty 33 points? Might become well worth their points then...

So anyone else completely un-impressed with the CSM codex esp when compared to SM and GK codex?

I mean it looks like almost all copy and paste and very little actual new content/changes.

Warlord traits for the most part suck esp when compared to SM/GK, and even even for CP abilities think we got the short end on options.

Legion traits for some legions are extremely weak, looking specifically at WB I mean they basically only got a trait all marines get.....ummm, ya thats a joke right.

Even on special gear---the AL chainsword is one any marine chapter can take.....so ya the rules writer needs fired and someone that can actually write good, decent, new rules maybe hired.

The only option in the book that is looking tasty is the new plague marine options--tons more stuff, as you can go shooty or assault with plague marine squads now, however even then they didnt allow the good melee wpns to go on the SGT weakening their capability to do good damage.

BrianDavion wrote:
I could see them using the re-roll morale saves to sell word bearers as the Legion to pick if you want to run large blobs.

if you wanted to run a army using large blobs of cultists and or chaos space marines (who can be taken in squads of 20, not that anyone ever does

I'm not saying this is GOOD, but I could see that being the best use for Word bearers.

Which is weird, because both IW and black legion can do that better by virtue of the warlord trait and Abby respectively.

I have to correct my previous statement, the forgefiend seems to be cheaper now because he went from 10PP to 9.

chaos45 wrote:
So anyone else completely un-impressed with the CSM codex esp when compared to SM and GK codex?

Some things do strike me as weak. We lack access to any chapter master equivalent or a stratagem to upgrade chaos lords' auras. Immunity to morale is IW trait rather than generic. The fact two of our traits (BL and one generic) only trigger on imperium is also annoying in the extreme. Havocs are still slightly weaker devastators when used for heavy weapons. Still haven't been given a good way to deal with characters as the designers seem to be under the delusion that melee/short range abilities are sufficient for character removal this edition (though GK share this issue).

Still though, this is leagues better than it has been before. The morale thing is annoying but still less of an issue than ever before (though if every other army gets a generic warlord trait of that variety). Being tailored against imperium isn't so bad when imperium is half the game. We got a LT equivalent so that's good.

The main issues are ones that are always going to be an issue, such as warlord traits, relics, and even some stratagems being predominantly geared towards hero hammer rather than effective for multiplication.

At least Obliterators doubled their shots and remained the same price. I wish I could say the same for my Centurions (went up 15 pts in an already overpriced model).

Chaos still seems to have some pretty good stuff. Hopefully a better leaks will come out.

Well it seems word bearers can take cult troops now. Hmm