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Made in gb
RogueSangre



West Sussex, UK

John D Law wrote:
Well there is supposedly a secret box coming to retailers on sept 1st from FFG related to Star Wars so we may see it up close soon!


There were rumours of a Star Wars version of the Warhammer Quest card game being rushed through and going directly to retail as a surprise release in September / October so the secret Star Wars item could be that (like how they released Mansions of Madness 2nd edition out of nowhere 2 years ago).
   
Made in gb
Omnious Orc Shaman





A long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away...

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Nah, that's totally his '83 Fiat Lambda.


To be fair, it is a convertible and probably comes with a cassette player... the original still kicking that 8-track.


More like Vader's Uber driver turned up...

Then there's The Imperial CRASSUS


Spoiler:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/25 10:07:33


   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Ruglud wrote:

Then there's The Imperial CRASSUS


You know, it's stuff like this... I see it, and I'm like, "If these guys oppressed the entire Galaxy for decades, you kind of deserve the misery". How do you get out of that thing without falling? WHY WOULD YOU CARRY DUDES LIKE THIS?

Friggin, Empire, man.

Camo? Nah, let's paint everyone's armor white. Hey, remember that one time we fought on Hoth? Could happen again any day.

We've got the technology to make hovering tank vehicles armed to the teeth that are in no way restricted by any terrain at all. But we'll just make this colossal walking thing with like, four guns on it for no reason. And while we're at it, let's make a two-legged one to walk around the woods and trip over logs and rocks and stuff.

Hey, let's leave a glaring weakness in our most powerful, expensive weapon ever. I mean, we could literally send one guy up there with a steel grate or something to weld it closed, maybe look at that? Nah, there's no way those Bothans found out it's a weakness after they stole the plans.

There's no possible way Darth Vader's kid might be living on the same planet in the same area he came from using the same last name.

Guys we need to find the rebels. Let's send obnoxiously loud robots into random areas in groups of eight. We're not in a rush or anything. What's a 'scan'? Make those weird creepy droids just go look for random stuff in random parts of the galaxy.

You know what'd be a great idea? An absurdly fast jetbike in a dense forest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/25 14:24:07


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





I do think that's kind of the point of the absurdity though (and something Star Wars is not alone in using).
   
Made in ca
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





Dang, just as my finances were starting to get back in order...

This looks great, I can't wait to give it a shot.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Ruglud wrote:

Then there's The Imperial CRASSUS



Hey, let's leave a glaring weakness in our most powerful, expensive weapon ever. I mean, we could literally send one guy up there with a steel grate or something to weld it closed, maybe look at that? Nah, there's no way those Bothans found out it's a weakness after they stole the plans.




I see the point you are trying to make, but Bothans were the DSII, even before Rogue One the Bothans only did the DSII.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The worst part of Rogue One was having to constantly having to remind people that Bothans were only a part of DS2 when they complained.
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

 Manchu wrote:
Hey pancakeonions, just sell your IA stuff. I bought all of IA up to Twin Shadows, played it and didn't like it. Sold it away to get at least some of my money back.

RE: Armada - I think you can only buy X-Wing staters at Target. You can get expansions at Barnes & Noble but they also sell Armada.


Certainly a possibility... But that's sooo much sunk time into painting those figures. And I've become quite attached to them after a while!

It's just weird weird weird that they purposely made Legion 10-20% bigger. There's just no sincere reason they can give (to make me believe, anyhow!)

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Portland

 Ruglud wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Nah, that's totally his '83 Fiat Lambda.


To be fair, it is a convertible and probably comes with a cassette player... the original still kicking that 8-track.


More like Vader's Uber driver turned up...

Then there's The Imperial CRASSUS


Spoiler:


I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Crassus actually, considering that it showed up in Rebels more than once.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 pancakeonions wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Hey pancakeonions, just sell your IA stuff. I bought all of IA up to Twin Shadows, played it and didn't like it. Sold it away to get at least some of my money back.

RE: Armada - I think you can only buy X-Wing staters at Target. You can get expansions at Barnes & Noble but they also sell Armada.


Certainly a possibility... But that's sooo much sunk time into painting those figures. And I've become quite attached to them after a while!

It's just weird weird weird that they purposely made Legion 10-20% bigger. There's just no sincere reason they can give (to make me believe, anyhow!)


So they aren't releasing a game where a significant percentage of their potential customers already have the majority of an army for the only two factions 99.9% of people would ever bother with?

   
Made in gb
RogueSangre



West Sussex, UK

Vorian wrote:
 pancakeonions wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Hey pancakeonions, just sell your IA stuff. I bought all of IA up to Twin Shadows, played it and didn't like it. Sold it away to get at least some of my money back.

RE: Armada - I think you can only buy X-Wing staters at Target. You can get expansions at Barnes & Noble but they also sell Armada.


Certainly a possibility... But that's sooo much sunk time into painting those figures. And I've become quite attached to them after a while!

It's just weird weird weird that they purposely made Legion 10-20% bigger. There's just no sincere reason they can give (to make me believe, anyhow!)


So they aren't releasing a game where a significant percentage of their potential customers already have the majority of an army for the only two factions 99.9% of people would ever bother with?



At most they would have around 50% and that's really pushing it. They would he lots of character options for commanders though.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 jake wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Crassus actually, considering that it showed up in Rebels more than once.

Yeah, although in Rebels the outer "crew slots" were ever only used to transport prisoners while the troopers used the interior (...and even then it looked kinda stupid xd).
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Reynoldsburg Ohio

 LunarSol wrote:
The worst part of Rogue One was having to constantly having to remind people that Bothans were only a part of DS2 when they complained.


Especially since the Bothans only got the progress report that DSII wasn't finished, and found out the Emperor was coming
   
Made in au
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Australia

 Ruglud wrote:
Then there's The Imperial CRASSUS

Spoiler:

Friends don't let friends insert action figure accessories directly into canon.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Not as bad with the stormie ablative armor remixed as stowage:


   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

 Albertorius wrote:
 jake wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Crassus actually, considering that it showed up in Rebels more than once.

Yeah, although in Rebels the outer "crew slots" were ever only used to transport prisoners while the troopers used the interior (...and even then it looked kinda stupid xd).


It was basically just the Empire being dicks.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

Let's hope FFG takes more liberties to redesign and make new SW units and vehicles.

A lot of the EU stuff are really just terrible designs, but with a little more design work can go from crappy nostalgia to awesome nostalgia.

   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

I am very interested in Legion, I love Star Wars and as long as it has a good variety of vehicles and diff troop choices I'll prob buy it.

I used to play the old WEG rpg back in the day and really liked the fluff of the European. Since they do have scum as a 3rd faction in x-wing, and it uses a fair amount of eu stuff. I think that they'll poach as much as they can to maximize the IP.
   
Made in us
Swamp Troll




San Diego

I just hope you guys aren't this harsh about Dewbacks. It's probably the worst choice for a mode of transportation but one of my favorites/most iconic from the films.

   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 MLaw wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Kriswall,

You're right, most people (IME) do use the actual cards - they came with the minis after all. (Plus, for all the complaints about too much clutter, I think many people like the tactility of components.) The notion of using a written out list instead makes sense, however, when you're just proxying stuff you don't have in a friendly game. Near as I can tell, there's really nothing to stop anyone from doing that, using IA figures they already own, if they want to try out Legion before buying.

So the remaining problem would be, what? that you can't use IA figs in Legion organized play? Kind of a "well duh" issue.


I live in San Diego and I'm not particularly active in the FLGS anymore but here there are definitely people who do not use official minis or even components if it will either a)save them money or b)keep them from having to paint more stuff.. As I said earlier, they've even gone so far as to make RW spinners for units they wanted more of or that haven't been released. I would imagine anyone with a sizeable Wizkids prepaint collection would probably also be interested in the cards for casual play but the point about the official events is spot on.. and even IA stuff would not seem likely to be allowed tbh. That said.. out of the people who have complained.. I'm curious about how many of them a)own IA in the first place, b)plan on playing in official events, c)would have bought this under any other condition (like.. literally what circumstances would they have not complained and just bought the game?). The fake outrage culture is out of hand.


I'm a miniatures gamer. I'm a lot of other things as well, but the one is the relevant one when discussing this topic.
I've got no problem buying models. Lots of fething models. I'd happily have bought Legion and then added both Official Expansion Packs as well as my IA models to the forces. I dislike the scale change for the new game immensely because I like my forces to have a reasonable consistency to them. This isn't a slow, GW-style scale creep over 30 years, but a deliberate move to limit compatibility across the two brands that feature what would otherwise be basically-identical models. I understand that it's their right as a business to do what they want, and it's my right as a consumer to not like their choice and vote accordingly with my wallet.

See, here's the thing. I know that I could very easily get hold of the printed components, the rules and any other "mechanical" components and run with my existing models (plus a pile of Hasbro prepaints) without needing to spend a cent beyond possibly a measuring stick and a set of dice - which will be sold separately because FFG always undersupplies those components but is always happy to sell you an aftermarket set. But.... I'd like to buy the new stuff and run them alongside without the jarring aesthetic issue of the figures being out of scale with their brethren. But hey, no biggie. Lots of other games out there, lots of other places to spend my time and money. It's Star Wars, set during the GCW. It's going to sell boatloads, so the loss of my individual business - regardless of how much I might spend as an individual - isn't going to amount to much.




   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Out of curiosity, what makes you assume the scale difference is about making sure IA and Legion are incompatible? As opposed to, say, FFG wanting more detailed, higher quality models and, because they aren't working with the same materials or expertise as (for example) GW, have to go with a bigger scale to achieve that? Also, does the scale difference truly make IA incompatible with Legion or is that, as you seem to imply, an idiosyncratic and subjective call on the part of each person?

   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

I'm not going to engage with you directly. Thanks.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Ha! Very telling!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/26 07:56:18


   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

It's actually not about this game, but a more general unwillingness to engage with you. I've spent the last hour or so reading through this thread and watching the way that you make your arguments, and I've noted the same in any number of other threads. You're also a Mod, which means I can't really place you on ignore despite not wanting to engage with you. Very telling, indeed!

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

The notion that FFG is acting out of greed and/or bad faith is an assumption rather than a self-evident fact. Why assume a company wants to screw over its customers if there are other reasonable explanations? I mean, screwing over customers is presumably something successful companies actually want to avoid. So attributing bad faith motives is also attributing self-destructive irrationality. This isn't just responding to your post, Azazelx, but to this attitude generally, which strikes me as a very odd reaction to great news. A hobby-oriented SW minis game is finally a reality!

As a lifelong SW fan, I have waited for this news for as long as I have been a miniatures gamer. Legion is by no means perfect for established mini gamers. We're talking about monopose PVC figures, after all; nothing like the quality of GW. But that's still better than WEG's metal monopose figs, the toy-like WotC pre-paints, or the board game pawns in Imperial Assault. More importantly, the gameplay looks very promising with many interesting decision points. Of course, FFG's component-heavy design is not for everyone. That, too, is something I can understand rubbing established mini gamers the wrong way.

If PVC figs, proprietary dice/measurement tools, and/or card-based rules layouts were not my thing, I'd be pretty disappointed with Legion. And of course even despite none of those things bothering me, FFG SW games like Imperial Assault and Armada just aren't for me. I bought em, tried em, and ended up selling them on. Maybe the same will be true with Legion. But I think it's a shame that folks might pass over Legion, especially those like me who have been waiting for it, because they read on message boards that the product is a sleazy cash grab.

I'm not actually interested in changing the minds of people who post that. If that's what you think, ok. But the counterpoint is worth posting alongside of it, too.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

Pre ordered for a buddy and I tonight. Lots of scenario opportunity and good fun here in my eyes.

~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five and a half decades.
AoS * Konflikt '47 * Conquest Last Argument of Kings * Trench Crusade * Horus Heresy * The Old World * Armoured Clash 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Commissar Benny wrote:
If the rules end up half way decent, I might actually get into this. It looks kind of like 40K, only set in the Star Wars universe. Seems like Fantasy Flight Games is really putting the squeeze on Games Workshop. X-wing is already outselling 40k & now they are moving in on their core audience. Will be interesting to see how GW responds. I think making custom Endor/Hoth terrain for Legion would be a ton of fun. If they add ewok, jawa, tusken raiders & bounty hunters I am definitely in.


To be honest, I'm not sure this game's release will be distinguishable from random noise on GW's sales charts. People have to remember a dollar in FFG's pocket is not a dollar out of GW's. The ICV2 charts are simply a measure of what's selling the most, GW could be having a record profit year and never know they were in trouble because 40K slipped a spot to X-Wing if they never checked that website. Also given the difference in the products overall, it's just very hard to imagine 40K players giving up their HIPS plastic sculptures and abandoning a game they've been playing for years to exclusively embrace FFGs nice quality, game piece miniatures, and refined board game-like rules.

If 40K ever falters it will be because it becomes old hat to newer generations who just don't see its appeal, or it will get felled by a miniatures company who attacks them where they are actually vulnerable to competition, with the miniature collector crowd.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Legion need not lure away existing 40k players to threaten GW. The real hurt would be getting people new to wargaming before GW can. Even then, if I was in GW's position, I'd still consider more people getting into miniatures gaming to be a positive, overall.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Manchu wrote:
The notion that FFG is acting out of greed and/or bad faith is an assumption rather than a self-evident fact. Why assume a company wants to screw over its customers if there are other reasonable explanations? I mean, screwing over customers is presumably something successful companies actually want to avoid. So attributing bad faith motives is also attributing self-destructive irrationality. This isn't just responding to your post, Azazelx, but to this attitude generally, which strikes me as a very odd reaction to great news. A hobby-oriented SW minis game is finally a reality!


I don't think a full minis game at Imperial Assault quality would have flown. I'm not entirely convinced the quality of this game is enough of an improvement, personally, but I assume FFG saw the need to have higher quality figures for a dedicated minis game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/28 15:30:03


 
   
Made in us
Swamp Troll




San Diego

I started to reply again about this being a boardgame.. but I re-read the elevator pitch in the first post
Fantasy Flight Games is proud to announce Star Wars™: Legion, a new miniatures game of infantry battles that invites you to join iconic heroes and villains, lead your troopers into battle, and battle for the fate of the Star Wars galaxy. With Star Wars: Legion, you can build and paint a unique army of miniatures. You can command your troops in battle and devise masterful tactics. And you can conquer your opponent’s army to bring victory to the light side or the dark side!

With thirty-three unpainted and easily assembled miniatures, and all the cards, movement tools, tokens, and terrain that you need for battle, the Star Wars: Legion Core Set is the perfect way to bring Star Wars battles to your tabletop.


In contrast, the FFG description for IA identifies that product pretty explicitly as a board game
Imperial Assault is a strategy board game of tactical combat and missions for two to five players, offering two distinct games of battle and adventure in the Star Wars™ universe..


and further down referencing the pieces as figures rather than miniatures.
Once a mission begins, players alternate activating a single figure or squad of figures. Each figure receives two actions to move, attack, open doors, investigate crates for useful supplies, or rest to recover strain and damage.


The entire description reads that way.
While it might seem like semantics.. I personally believe that Legion is meant to be not only a new product, but an entirely different approach (insofar as that can be said).

Giving FFG the benefit of the doubt, it's possible they wanted to take IA in a direction that those mechanics and the entire design philosophy simply would not allow for. Moreover, the emphasis placed on building and painting miniatures vs. the IA figures that were for the most part ready to go... To me that says the two products are meant to be aimed at different audiences, both from the style of play and the nature of the figures and miniatures respectively.

   
 
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