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Yeah, I think any of the missions and stuff are still open to use if you want. They haven't said it invalidates the entire book, just the points are updated/superseded.

I just wanted my Sergeants to be able to carry lasguns. Is it really too much to ask? Maybe in the BIG FAQ 2020 :(

 Kcalehc wrote:
I just wanted my Sergeants to be able to carry lasguns. Is it really too much to ask? Maybe in the BIG FAQ 2020 :(

Too much to hope, now convert that boltgun or charge with the chainsword!

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Kcalehc wrote:
I just wanted my Sergeants to be able to carry lasguns. Is it really too much to ask? Maybe in the BIG FAQ 2020 :(

Too much to hope, now convert that boltgun or charge with the chainsword!

Or go DKOK, Elysian.

Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

The Newman wrote:
Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

It's not. Being more than twice as easy to kill. At 3 wounds with LC and missles a cent shouldn't be more than 85 points.

Nether unit needs to move. Plus - A venerable is hitting on 2's and has 6+++ - just take the venerable.

Yeah, Centurion pricing is awfully silly isn't it?

The Newman wrote:
Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

Yeah, I did the math too and it just doesn't seem to be working out UNLESS you happen to be going Ultramarine and taking Guilliman anyway.

Audustum wrote:

The Newman wrote:
Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

Yeah, I did the math too and it just doesn't seem to be working out UNLESS you happen to be going Ultramarine and taking Guilliman anyway.

Much more efficent to just run Calgar and a LT with these units. Str 9,8 is usually wounding on 3's - Paying 400 for Gman is not worth it to reroll 2's - it's really not worth it to reroll 3's ether.

Basically any marine army can do this. Stop overvaluing Gman. Standard marine armies are already rerolling all hits and 1's to wound at a minimum.

And really I can't stress this enough. Overpaying for units that die easy when you are paying 400 points for a buffer - does not help you win games.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah, Centurion pricing is awfully silly isn't it?

I'd say it's just really hard to get right.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Audustum wrote:

The Newman wrote:
Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

Yeah, I did the math too and it just doesn't seem to be working out UNLESS you happen to be going Ultramarine and taking Guilliman anyway.

Much more efficent to just run Calgar and a LT with these units. Str 9,8 is usually wounding on 3's - Paying 400 for Gman is not worth it to reroll 2's - it's really not worth it to reroll 3's ether.

Basically any marine army can do this. Stop overvaluing Gman. Standard marine armies are already rerolling all hits and 1's to wound at a minimum.

And really I can't stress this enough. Overpaying for units that die easy when you are paying 400 points for a buffer - does not help you win games.

I agree with the sentiment, but I would add for my case specifically that I was looking at lascannons/hurricane bolter as the loadout so they could be a TAC unit.

I'm just gonna stick with my Custodes and Imperial Knights most likely so don't take me as more than a fly on the wall for these guys.

 Xenomancers wrote:

The Newman wrote:
Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

It's not. Being more than twice as easy to kill. At 3 wounds with LC and missles a cent shouldn't be more than 85 points.

Nether unit needs to move. Plus - A venerable is hitting on 2's and has 6+++ - just take the venerable.

And the venerable is another 10 points.

I think I'd have to disagree on them not needing to move. Yes, they both have decent range on most of their guns, but not all of their guns and LoS is still a thing even if GW's terrain rules are stupid. The last game I played with either of them they had to reposition to see the targets I wanted every single turn.

And for what it's worth the Centurion Missile Launcher is more expensive than a regular Missile Launcher for good reason. It tops out at 9 damage instead of 6 and it's a fair bit more reliable about putting something on the target.

Centuarians base cost should be the same as terminators.

+1T and W, -1 move no deepstrike and no invun. After that you pay for the weapons and its fair.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Centuarians base cost should be the same as terminators.

+1T and W, -1 move no deepstrike and no invun. After that you pay for the weapons and its fair.

I will happily agree to that!

Imperial Fists centurions kitted for dakka can pop mortal wounds on a wound roll of 6.

With a chapter master, and the relic that lets them reroll 1s to wound, a unit of 6 expects to put over 18 mortal wounds on any target.

Now, that's a hefty chunk of change with the Centurions. But if something is within rapid fire range, it is officially dead.

 Marmatag wrote:
Imperial Fists centurions kitted for dakka can pop mortal wounds on a wound roll of 6.

With a chapter master, and the relic that lets them reroll 1s to wound, a unit of 6 expects to put over 18 mortal wounds on any target.

Now, that's a hefty chunk of change with the Centurions. But if something is within rapid fire range, it is officially dead.

They are only 18 shots each. So to get 18 morts they'd have to hit and wound with everything. They should expect a lot of mortals. Plus a lot of damage too. I wish that was a generic marine strat.

The Newman wrote:
Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

Could a centurion be a counts as dreadnought or is the size much different? I never seen centurion models in real life, and at my store someone has them at a box of cereal price for sale.

Karol wrote:

The Newman wrote:
Speaking of mixing excitement and disappointment; while I was really happy to see Centurions drop 40 points, once I did the math I realized that a Dreadnaught with the Missile Launcher and two Heavy Bolters/Lsacannons is still only 5-12 points more expensive than a Centurion with similar equipment.

I'm still trying to decide if ignoring cover, ignoring to-hit penalties for movement, and 2+ is really only worth 12 points more than T7, 5 more wounds, and 2" more movement.

Could a centurion be a counts as dreadnought or is the size much different? I never seen centurion models in real life, and at my store someone has them at a box of cereal price for sale.

They are like organ sized. They have kind of become a "fun unit to hate on" because they look like something out of exosquad. I'd grab them up if I were you. They are bound to be good some day. Possibly even playable with heavy bolters and hurricanes.

Karol wrote:
Could a centurion be a counts as dreadnought or is the size much different? I never seen centurion models in real life, and at my store someone has them at a box of cereal price for sale.

Not really. They are smaller, and plus everyone would just think they are centurions.

Never realized they are that big. Glad GW put those things to an end thanks to bad rules.

As just unit to slot in to an army I don't see centurions being all that hot even with the massive 40 point drop they had which goes to show just how awful they were. Their cheapest loadout has them at 70 points to spit out 6 HB shots and 6-12 bolter shots. That's not super impressive, but it's not super awful I suppose. They do have some good synergy with apothecaries who can bring back dead ones which is nice. Imperial fist centurions in the siegebreaker cohort could be an interested proposition with the bolter drill stratagem stacked with the cohort stratagem. Best case scenario you get 54 shots hitting on 3s re-rolling sixes are extra shots and any wounds (re-rolling 1s) are mortals against vehicles or buildings. Very rough match indicates if you do this against a knight you'll get like 9 or so mortal wounds on top of any normal plinks that get through. That's not awful, but it requires them to be within 12 inches and supported with re-rolls.

I really want to use centurions, but I just can't seem to justify them. If I want anti infantry aggressors do it better.

Audustum wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Centuarians base cost should be the same as terminators.

+1T and W, -1 move no deepstrike and no invun. After that you pay for the weapons and its fair.

I will happily agree to that!

I'd happily agree to that too, because it doesn't feel like enough to account for moving without penalties and ignoring cover. I'm not sure what those are worth, but they're definitely worth something. 30ish sounds about right, but I'd almost rather they just picked up a wound and counted the arm guns as twin-linked.

 Trickstick wrote:

Karol wrote:
Could a centurion be a counts as dreadnought or is the size much different? I never seen centurion models in real life, and at my store someone has them at a box of cereal price for sale.

Not really. They are smaller, and plus everyone would just think they are centurions.

Spoiler:

That isn't a regular sized centurian lol. Plus hes standing on a rock. That is for sure modified - the thigh leg section basically doesn't exist on that actual model.

The Newman wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Centuarians base cost should be the same as terminators.

+1T and W, -1 move no deepstrike and no invun. After that you pay for the weapons and its fair.

I will happily agree to that!

I'd happily agree to that too, because it doesn't feel like enough to account for moving without penalties and ignoring cover. I'm not sure what those are worth, but they're definitely worth something. 30ish sounds about right, but I'd almost rather they just picked up a wound and counter the arm guns as twin-linked.

You can add 5 points more if you want. It ain't worth a lot, especially when a whole Chapter offers the Ignores Cover bit too.

Yeah.

18 [shots per cent] * (8/9) [hitting on 3s rerolling 1s & 2s] * ((1/6)+(1/36)) [6 to mortal rerolling 1s] * 6 [number centurions]

This comes out to 18.67. That's not even factoring in saves.

The problem here is delivery and survivability. Because that damage is BALLER. Even out of rapid fire range it's expected 12.45 mortal wounds.

12.45 mortal wounds and 37.34 saves on T4. Killing nearly 60 Ork Boyz a turn (and forcing an auto-pass), outside of rapid fire range.

 Marmatag wrote:
Yeah.

18 [shots per cent] * (8/9) [hitting on 3s rerolling 1s & 2s] * ((1/6)+(1/36)) [6 to mortal rerolling 1s] * 6 [number centurions]

This comes out to 18.67. That's not even factoring in saves.

The problem here is delivery and survivability. Because that damage is BALLER. Even out of rapid fire range it's expected 12.45 mortal wounds.

12.45 mortal wounds and 37.34 saves on T4. Killing nearly 60 Ork Boyz a turn (and forcing an auto-pass), outside of rapid fire range.

Do note the mortal wound stratagem only works on vehicles and buildings.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Yeah.

18 [shots per cent] * (8/9) [hitting on 3s rerolling 1s & 2s] * ((1/6)+(1/36)) [6 to mortal rerolling 1s] * 6 [number centurions]

This comes out to 18.67. That's not even factoring in saves.

The problem here is delivery and survivability. Because that damage is BALLER. Even out of rapid fire range it's expected 12.45 mortal wounds.

12.45 mortal wounds and 37.34 saves on T4. Killing nearly 60 Ork Boyz a turn (and forcing an auto-pass), outside of rapid fire range.

Do note the mortal wound stratagem only works on vehicles and buildings.

Oh, interesting. The leaks i'm reading are text based and don't have that restriction.

Nevermind. It's garbage.

Well it still has some use against vehicles if you are cool with throwing bolter fire at them. 5s and 6s will still hurt them a fair deal.

 Marmatag wrote:


Oh, interesting. The leaks i'm reading are text based and don't have that restriction.

Nevermind. It's garbage.

Well, it makes them a one size fits all solution - super dakka for infantry and mortal wounds for vehicles.

Azreal cents with HB and Huricanes gonna be a thing?