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 Marmatag wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
If you look at a few other more recent codexes, twin weapons have been getting minor price breaks over 2xsolo weapons.

You can't split fire with a Twin Weapon, so in theory, it's worth ever so slightly less.

How much is Splitfire worth is actually a pretty difficult question.

It is very valuable in a general sense.

Just thinking back to 7th edition, where you had a model with 1 hull point left, and you had to devote all of your units shots to kill it.

Agreed with Marmatag. My Baneblades enjoy having two lascannons rather than a twin lascannon - I usually fire them together, but oftentimes if I'm shooting at things like wounded IG Sentinels or something I'll split them up. Having the option is certainly of some value.There's no reason to put two lascannons into one 1 or 2- wound sentinel.

"How much is Splitfire worth is actually a pretty difficult question."
More than 0%. Less than 50%. That much is obvious.

Most platforms don't pick between 2xHeavy and 1xTwinHeavy, though, so in most cases it needn't be at exact pairity.

 Marmatag wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
If you look at a few other more recent codexes, twin weapons have been getting minor price breaks over 2xsolo weapons.

You can't split fire with a Twin Weapon, so in theory, it's worth ever so slightly less.

How much is Splitfire worth is actually a pretty difficult question.

It is very valuable in a general sense.

Just thinking back to 7th edition, where you had a model with 1 hull point left, and you had to devote all of your units shots to kill it.

I mean if you only had models set up like that, sure. That's not something that typically happens though.

Bharring wrote:
"How much is Splitfire worth is actually a pretty difficult question."
More than 0%. Less than 50%. That much is obvious.

Most platforms don't pick between 2xHeavy and 1xTwinHeavy, though, so in most cases it needn't be at exact pairity.

It can be an issue between options though. A Dreadnaught is 20 points more than a Centurion, but a Dreadnaught with similar weapons is only 5-12 points more because it's weapons are twin-linked and the Centurion's are not. Centurions struggle in that comparison before they pay more for similar guns*.

* The Centurion Missile launcher probably deserves to be five more points than a normal Missile Launcher.

Am not sure split fire is that important, most of the time you have to over kil stuff anywhere. Otherwise you end up with your weapon that had an 85% chance to kill something not kill it, and you suddenly have to use a second squad over killing even more.

Last night we had something like that happen to my friend. He could total a baneblade with his castelan, but he split fire, because the baneblade was hurt. didn't kill it. his gallant was out of range. The IG dude repaird his blade blew up the castellan, again, he didn't have the CP to stand up and it lost him the game. If he didn't split shots, it wouldn't have happened.

 Marmatag wrote:
Their argument was they wanted to buff stuff no one is taking. Yet they started this so long ago that they aren't properly addressing dark angels and space wolves. These armies have done worse, overall, than Necrons, even with access to Imperial Soup.

These armies are so bad you can't staple a Castellan & the Loyal 32 onto them and surpass Necrons. Think about that. Why did they not receive significant overhauls in their character pricing, or army specific options?

If they're behind that much then the workload is exceeding their ability to intake information and make adequate changes. I hope they hit their stride with fewer codexes coming out.

@Karol,
I think you're not familiar with it because you play GK, and GK are rather boned.

But consider this situation. You've got a LasPred and a 4xLas Dev squad, and in front of you are 4 Space Elf Flying Thingies (that can use Lightning Quick Reflexes).

What do you do?
If you pick the 4xLas Dev Squad, you can aim one Lascannon at each Space Elf Flying Thing. The enemy than can use LQR on one of them. It's harder to hit, but the other 3 eat it normally.

Now you can follow up with the Pred and blast away one of the 3 that didn't get LQR.

On the other hand, if you started with the LasPred, 2 of your 4 Lascannons are on the same target. That target is definitely getting LQR. So you "waste" more dakka firing at a suboptimal target.

Similarly, a Knight list with RIS.

It's not a huge difference, but splitting up your dakka until stratagems are declared can actually matter.

There's also situations where there's 2+ targets of equal value each with 1HP left. This does actually happen. Again, being able to split fire helps.

I'm not sure it's worth a ton of points, but it's clearly worth a nonzero.

I am sad that the hard working lads doing BattleScribe didn’t switch Jump Packs on Assault Marines to cost 2pts instead of 3. I know my squad costs 170, but BS says 180, and it triggers the pedant in me.

On the bright side the points changes are getting me an apothecary and an ancient, so go team. Should shore up the offence nicely.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I am sad that the hard working lads doing BattleScribe didn’t switch Jump Packs on Assault Marines to cost 2pts instead of 3. I know my squad costs 170, but BS says 180, and it triggers the pedant in me.

On the bright side the points changes are getting me an apothecary and an ancient, so go team. Should shore up the offence nicely.

Then you change it. You can make any changes anytime you want.

Bharring wrote:
@Karol,
I think you're not familiar with it because you play GK, and GK are rather boned.


I'm not sure it's worth a ton of points, but it's clearly worth a nonzero.

Ah that does make sense. Would require multiple shoting units that are good, but it does make sense. And you are right with me not really knowing much about overkill. GK aren't known for it. And other armies that are played around here have very elite shoty units and they almost never split fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:
Their argument was they wanted to buff stuff no one is taking. Yet they started this so long ago that they aren't properly addressing dark angels and space wolves. These armies have done worse, overall, than Necrons, even with access to Imperial Soup.

These armies are so bad you can't staple a Castellan & the Loyal 32 onto them and surpass Necrons. Think about that. Why did they not receive significant overhauls in their character pricing, or army specific options?

Well I don't know about other factions, but if they planed it for GK, then they must think GK players use totaly different units. They droped the points on GM NDKs and Draigo, units GK were already auto including. But left the points the same on stuff like normal NDKs, which make even less sense now.

I wonder if GW is going to have some sort of twich podcast or series of articles that explains the changes, and why they think those were needed and not other. IMO would be very interesting to hear or read.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I am sad that the hard working lads doing BattleScribe didn’t switch Jump Packs on Assault Marines to cost 2pts instead of 3. I know my squad costs 170, but BS says 180, and it triggers the pedant in me.

On the bright side the points changes are getting me an apothecary and an ancient, so go team. Should shore up the offence nicely.

The good thing is that it looks like is an open source project.

So in the worst case scenario it depends on you to update it

 Marmatag wrote:
Their argument was they wanted to buff stuff no one is taking. Yet they started this so long ago that they aren't properly addressing dark angels and space wolves. These armies have done worse, overall, than Necrons, even with access to Imperial Soup.

These armies are so bad you can't staple a Castellan & the Loyal 32 onto them and surpass Necrons. Think about that. Why did they not receive significant overhauls in their character pricing, or army specific options?

This is just factually incorrect, both Space Wolve's and Dark Angels have a higher win rate than Necrons, even as a primary.

Bharring wrote:
If you look at a few other more recent codexes, twin weapons have been getting minor price breaks over 2xsolo weapons.

You can't split fire with a Twin Weapon, so in theory, it's worth ever so slightly less.

except for Orkz where none of our Twin weapons got cheaper. You know, because feth ork shooting.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I am sad that the hard working lads doing BattleScribe didn’t switch Jump Packs on Assault Marines to cost 2pts instead of 3. I know my squad costs 170, but BS says 180, and it triggers the pedant in me.

On the bright side the points changes are getting me an apothecary and an ancient, so go team. Should shore up the offence nicely.

Then you change it. You can make any changes anytime you want.

It just got fixed by the lovely people that remember these things.

I really should reinstall it on my PC...