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Both based on a fluff standpoint and a tabletop standpoint, I'm curious who would win.

Math hammer is actually appreciated here

It somewhat depends on what psychic powers the Swarmlord gets. If he has Iron Arm, (and chances are he will with 4 potential rolls on Biomancy), then he should pretty well mop the floor with the Bloodthirster.

Otherwise, it's a race to see who can get their Instant Death attacks to land first. Bloodthirster has the initiative, but only IDs on 6s. If he doesn't kill the Swarmlord on the first round of swings, he'll drop like a rock the first time one of those bone sabres lands a hit.

Now that's a good fight. Fluff wise I'm leaning towards bloodthirster. Nut just barely.

I'd like to see Skarbrand, since he's slightly better than a normal bloodthirster, but he can't move quite as fast.

First off, I would say this should be Skarbrand Vs Swarmlord, might as well whip out the big guns to fight the big guns.

Skarbrand has instant death as his warlord trait, but assuming that swarmlord has iron arm, it wont matter. Whoever gets the assault also matters, as whoever charges will get +2 instead of +1 attack. They both also have hatred in the first round.

So if skarbrand assaults, that is 8 attacks, hitting on 3s and re-rolling misses. That should be 6-7 hits, then he will wound on 2s, so we can assume 5-6. Swarmlord has a +4 in CC, so he takes a few wounds but does not die. He would then ID skarbrand pretty quickly, only having a ++5 that he has to re-roll would suck pretty bad. Without ID, or if skarbrand had EW in any way, it would be no contest Skarbrand every time.
Honestly, I think an Iron Arm GUO would mop the floor with swarmlord. Not in a single round, but the GUO wouldn't be going anywhere any time soon. Especially if it got FnP +4 and IWND +1 wound.

You can also just google it, the first result is a dakka post with plenty of math hammer better than mine.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/540926.page


Of course, the warp storm would roll an 11, and this would be moot, as the swarm lord would be turned into a herald of your choosing. LD test on 3D6.

Swarmlord is a psyker lv2 but it's able to hold 4 psychic power.

By rolling all 4 on biomancy, the chances of getting Iron Arm and Warp Speed is pretty high. Although it still depends on luck cause who knows that the only two psychic you can't get.

Iron arm increase Swarmlord's toughness and strength which allow you to wound Skarbrand on maybe a 3+ or lower depends on result you get.

Warp speed allow you to gain D3 initiative and attack, which ensure that you're able to strike first in a close combat.

Safe to say that as long as both of this condition fits in yet you still unable to instant kill a Skarbrand, they perhaps the will of hive fleet is not on your side.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
First off, I would say this should be Skarbrand Vs Swarmlord, might as well whip out the big guns to fight the big guns.

Skarbrand has instant death as his warlord trait, but assuming that swarmlord has iron arm, it wont matter. Whoever gets the assault also matters, as whoever charges will get +2 instead of +1 attack. They both also have hatred in the first round.

So if skarbrand assaults, that is 8 attacks, hitting on 3s and re-rolling misses. That should be 6-7 hits, then he will wound on 2s, so we can assume 5-6. Swarmlord has a +4 in CC, so he takes a few wounds but does not die. He would then ID skarbrand pretty quickly, only having a ++5 that he has to re-roll would suck pretty bad. Without ID, or if skarbrand had EW in any way, it would be no contest Skarbrand every time.
Honestly, I think an Iron Arm GUO would mop the floor with swarmlord. Not in a single round, but the GUO wouldn't be going anywhere any time soon. Especially if it got FnP +4 and IWND +1 wound.

You can also just google it, the first result is a dakka post with plenty of math hammer better than mine.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/540926.page

Of course, the warp storm would roll an 11, and this would be moot, as the swarm lord would be turned into a herald of your choosing. LD test on 3D6.

GUO doesn't get FnP against Swarmlord. All of Swarmlord's attacks cause Instant death. FnP cannot be taken against attacks that inflict instant death. EVEN IF GUO gets Iron arm and thereby Eternal warrior it still doesn't change the fact that Swarmlords attacks are Instant death.

I'm not familiar with Skarband but I would imagine that with the correct psychic powers Swarmlord will win. Even if you get the less than ideal powers i.e. enfeeble, Hemorrhage OR keep the codex powers i.e. paroxysm, the horror I think Swarmlord should still have a chance....

GUO loses because of Shadow in the Warp.

Fluff I would say Bloodthirster, perhaps I'm biased.

In the game the Bloodthirster would win too, just repeatedly Vector Striking the Swarm Lord until he dies.

Yeah, Swarmlords don't fly. That would have an impact here (sic).

if it's skarbrand vs swarmlord if sw army doesn't get iron arm then Skarbrand will thrash him otherwise, victory goes to swarmlord
Bloodthirster on the other hand will probably get thrashed if swarmy gets iron arm or warp speed.

Are Daemons not still immune to instant death?

No, without iron arm almost all daemons are vulnerable to instant death.
I would go with swarmlord most of the time.

Bloodthirsters are second rate to lords of change this edition anyway, even in CC. The prescience skills help so much, as well as having a str 8 weapon.

Now a better challenge would be Be'lakor vs swarmlord. Guaranteed invis, EW, fleshbane would really help balance them

At least while nids still have access to biomancy...

Fluff-wise I'd argue that it depends on what specific Bloodthirster we're talking about. An unnamed, average Bloodthirster would probably lose, but if we start getting into Ka'bandha, Skarbrand or, overkill, An'ggrath it starts to get silly.

Don't forget the swarmlords invul and making enemy reroll saves.

In CC even without Iron Arm the Swarmlord should win to be honest.

Fluff : Blood Thirster

Tabletop : Swarmlord.

Either way, fluff wise they get a shot at almost infinite rematches.

Tabletop: All the mathhammer says Swarmlord, at least as far as the 5th ed codex goes, it'll be interesting to see how he fares in the new codex against other CC beatsticks.

Fluff: Lol, they're both immortal.

Has everyone forgotten Skarbrand warlord trait? ID on all his attacks. So def Skarbrand.

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Has everyone forgotten Skarbrand warlord trait? ID on all his attacks. So def Skarbrand.

Swarmy gets iron arm, EW makes ID moot

Ah yeah damn i forgot Iron Arm gives EW. My bad.