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Been having a bit of an argument with BoomWolf regarding the viability of the Deathmark's Hunters from Hyperspace ability against GMCs. On the one hand the Apocalypse rulebook states:

attacks with the Sniper special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6

On the other hand Codex Necron states:

Any Deathmark unit that shoots at, or strikes blows against, a unit marked in this fashion will score a wound on a roll of 2+

BoomWolf insist that since the Deathmark's guns are of the Sniper type the Apocalypse rule take precedence and the Deathmarks wound on a 6+ against a GMC even if it has been marked. I on the other hand maintain that the Hunters from Hyperspace ability would take precedence since it is a special effect imposed by a unique ability (plus, it would be quite silly if the Deathmarks themselves would receive no benefit from this ability while Characters joined to their units would be affected normally).

In case neither rule takes precedence I'd argue that the Hunters from Hyperspace ability wins out since in most cases where such a contradiction accrues the FAQ usually gives the choice of precedence to the current turn's player, which will be the Deathmark's owner (unless he's overwatching).

What say you?

Pretty sure there is a rule in the apoc book that states any ability that wounds on a fixed number, such as sniper and poisoned weapons only wound a GMC on a 6.

Backlash wrote:
Pretty sure there is a rule in the apoc book that states any ability that wounds on a fixed number, such as sniper and poisoned weapons only wound a GMC on a 6.

I quoted that rule, it only refers to the Sniper and Poisoned USRs specifically.

It's been discussed elsewhere already (a friend just sent me the link)-
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=110498&page=8

Blacklash,
The issue here isn't the existence of a restriction but the existence of two different conflicting rules. In one rule we have instructions to treat all To Wound Results of 4 or greater as successful. In the other rule we have instructions to treat all To Wound Results of 2 or greater as successful. This leads a situation where it is possible to have a single Result generate both a success and failure, leading to the question of which one is correct. As both rules where clearly written to over-write the same basic rule, Generating Success/Failures with To Wound Rolls, it really is difficult to say which one is more 'specific' then the other.

Would page 7, think it is 7 granting permission for Codex to overwrite Rule Book, be able to resolve this one?

Hunters in hyperspace is an upgrade to the wounding ability of the deathmarks sniper weapon correct? It doesn't actually cause the wound. The sniper weapon simply wounds on a different set number. Seems like a case of specific over general. GMC ability nerfs ALL sniper weapons reguardless on what number they wound on. It should still wound on a 6. I could be wrong as I'm traveling and don't have any of my codex with me, and would like to check specific wording.

It is not an upgrade to their sniper weapons as it applies in close combat and RC members benefit as well.

Easiest solution: Errata "Hits on the chosen unit have the Fleshbane special rule."

Backlash wrote:
Hunters in hyperspace is an upgrade to the wounding ability of the deathmarks sniper weapon correct? It doesn't actually cause the wound. The sniper weapon simply wounds on a different set number. Seems like a case of specific over general. GMC ability nerfs ALL sniper weapons reguardless on what number they wound on. It should still wound on a 6. I could be wrong as I'm traveling and don't have any of my codex with me, and would like to check specific wording.

It changes ALL to wound rolls against the marked target to 2+, including close combat weapons and the shooting weapons of characters that joined deathmarks squads.

In the rulebook there is a sentence saying that if 2 special rules contradict themselfs, you roll to see wich one is applied this turn.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
In the rulebook there is a sentence saying that if 2 special rules contradict themselfs, you roll to see wich one is applied this turn.

IIRC there's also a rule that states that special rules in codices override those in the rulebooks.

just the BRB. Now that GW is tossing out supplemental rule books we could use a rule to tell us what to do when a codex conflicts with the supplement.

The rule only affects poison and snipers. No where does it state it affects all special abilities so it doesn't.

Hunters is neither poison or sniper how do you have permission to affect it? If the Deaths marks mark another target the shooting would then be affected as you are using sniper and not another special rule.

All weapons with the sniper rule wound on a 6+ (general), which is modified to a 2+ by the 'mark' ability (specific)

Looks like marking works fine, but against unmarked gargantuan creatures they get a bit worse. Seems a reasonable interpretation to me.

 Neorealist wrote:
All weapons with the sniper rule wound on a 6+ (general), which is modified to a 2+ by the 'mark' ability (specific)

Looks like marking works fine, but against unmarked gargantuan creatures they get a bit worse. Seems a reasonable interpretation to me.

That's the way I figured it to work.

If the Apocalypse book says "special abilities with set values wound on 6+" that sounds like it would apply to the Deathmarks special rule, too. Does it specifically call out only Sniper and Poison or "any special rule"?

I dont play apocalypse. But how would the DE agoniser work on gargantuan creatures? it wounds on a fixed number, but isnt a sniper, nor poisoned. Sounds like whatever ruling that one has could be applied on hunters from hyperspace.

Fortuned Vect vs. a C'Tan would be fun, especially when he is hitting on 3's and wounding on 3's re-rolling 1's.

I think they would wound on 2's because Codex>Rulebook and I am pretty sure Escalation says treat these rules as if they where main rules.

Fortuned Vect vs. a C'Tan would be fun, especially when he is hitting on 3's and wounding on 3's re-rolling 1's.

The C'tan then gets a 3++ followed by a 5+++ then IWND and then steps on Vect caring not for his invun...

The apocalypse rules only calls out poison and sniper. Anything they has it's own special rule to wound on a fixed number (such as fleshbane or HfH) still works as normal.