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Had a situation today when an Independent Character [Priest] was out in the open and closest to the firing unit, and the two other members of the unit [Arco-flagellants] were in cover. I Look out Sir!'d the two wounds caused by shooting on to the Arco-flagellants in cover - do they receive cover saves?

Thanks in advance

I don't know as the rules cover this situation one way or the other.

To me, common sense says they wouldn't as the model in cover would be leaping out of it to throw themselves in front of the shot..... but that's in the description/fluff of "look out sir", and not the "rule" portion.

technically, if your opponent had declared to focus fire (which he probably would have done) you wouldn't be able to pass those wounds on at all.

also your not look out siring wounds anymore your look out siring hits.

in your example we will presume that your opponent did not declare he was focus firing.

in which case the unit will receive a cover save so yes they would get a cover save.

Good point Nutty, hadn't thought of it from that angle about the focus fire or the whole unit would get a cover save anyways.

I don't know much about Focus Fire, but I would think that because Look Out Sir is for any unsaved wounds, that the models taking it wouldn't get any saves.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
technically, if your opponent had declared to focus fire (which he probably would have done) you wouldn't be able to pass those wounds on at all.

also your not look out siring wounds anymore your look out siring hits.

in your example we will presume that your opponent did not declare he was focus firing.

in which case the unit will receive a cover save so yes they would get a cover save.

Pretty sure that cover is worked out on a model by model basis - BRB "if when you come to allocate a wound, the target model's body... is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recieve a over save". AFAIK there is no 'unit' cover save.

nutty_nutter wrote:also your not look out siring wounds anymore your look out siring hits.

SignMaster99 wrote:...Look Out Sir is for any unsaved wounds...

Gah, No and no. Look Out Sir! applies to wounds before saves have been rolled for them.

Models involved in the LOS! always take their own cover saves, as normal. The LOS! rules do not modify anybody's saves, cover or otherwise.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
technically, if your opponent had declared to focus fire (which he probably would have done) you wouldn't be able to pass those wounds on at all.

also your not look out siring wounds anymore your look out siring hits.

in your example we will presume that your opponent did not declare he was focus firing.

in which case the unit will receive a cover save so yes they would get a cover save.

Pretty sure that cover is worked out on a model by model basis - BRB "if when you come to allocate a wound, the target model's body... is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recieve a over save". AFAIK there is no 'unit' cover save.

After re-reading the section, this appears correct.

If he did not focus fire, and the commander was the closest model, than the commander gets no cover save and must be allocated the wounds until he dies. He can "look out sir" them to other models, but if those models have a cover save, nothing specifically says they lose the cover save.


Though like I said in my first post, I think common sense would be that they lose the cover save as they would have to leap out of cover to deflect the shot aimed at the commander..... though nothing in the rules says this. Its how I would do it for my models, but wouldn't fault a player for doing it the other way.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
technically, if your opponent had declared to focus fire (which he probably would have done) you wouldn't be able to pass those wounds on at all.

also your not look out siring wounds anymore your look out siring hits.

in your example we will presume that your opponent did not declare he was focus firing.

in which case the unit will receive a cover save so yes they would get a cover save.

Pretty sure that cover is worked out on a model by model basis - BRB "if when you come to allocate a wound, the target model's body... is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recieve a over save". AFAIK there is no 'unit' cover save.

After re-reading the section, this appears correct.

If he did not focus fire, and the commander was the closest model, than the commander gets no cover save and must be allocated the wounds until he dies. He can "look out sir" them to other models, but if those models have a cover save, nothing specifically says they lose the cover save.


Though like I said in my first post, I think common sense would be that they lose the cover save as they would have to leap out of cover to deflect the shot aimed at the commander..... though nothing in the rules says this. Its how I would do it for my models, but wouldn't fault a player for doing it the other way.

Thanks for the input, much appreicated. I don't think focus fire really matters in this case. Even if they focussed fired on my IC out of cover, I could still Look out Sir! them onto the other members of the unit.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Steel-W0LF wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
technically, if your opponent had declared to focus fire (which he probably would have done) you wouldn't be able to pass those wounds on at all.

also your not look out siring wounds anymore your look out siring hits.

in your example we will presume that your opponent did not declare he was focus firing.

in which case the unit will receive a cover save so yes they would get a cover save.

Pretty sure that cover is worked out on a model by model basis - BRB "if when you come to allocate a wound, the target model's body... is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recieve a over save". AFAIK there is no 'unit' cover save.

After re-reading the section, this appears correct.

If he did not focus fire, and the commander was the closest model, than the commander gets no cover save and must be allocated the wounds until he dies. He can "look out sir" them to other models, but if those models have a cover save, nothing specifically says they lose the cover save.


Though like I said in my first post, I think common sense would be that they lose the cover save as they would have to leap out of cover to deflect the shot aimed at the commander..... though nothing in the rules says this. Its how I would do it for my models, but wouldn't fault a player for doing it the other way.

Thanks for the input, much appreicated. I don't think focus fire really matters in this case. Even if they focussed fired on my IC out of cover, I could still Look out Sir! them onto the other members of the unit.

There have been quite a few debates on that topic with no resolution, I would avoid it in this thread. Summary: one rule breaks the other, no matter which way you go once you throw focus fire and LoS togehter, an nothing says what takes precedence. So it turns into a huge debate with two entrenched sides.

Here is how it works call it RAW or whatever.

First without focus fire...

You fire causing wounds the character is out of cover, and the next nearest model in it's unit is in cover. You make the look out sir and transfer the wound to the nearest friendly model in the same unit within 6" of the character. That model then follows the normal rules for saves and takes the best one be it armor, cover (if it is in cover), etc. The fact that the IC is out of cover is irrelevant. We just pretend he dove back behind the nearest guy.

So in short IF the model is in cover it can make a cover save. Doesn't matter if the wound was transferred from a model without a cover save or not.

Next focus fire in the same scenario per the rules. You choose a cover value or models with no cover, and wounds can only be allocated to those models. So you choose no cover because the character is out of cover and you want to kill him. So you allocate all the wounds you cause to him.

Now per look out sir for each 4+ he rolls he can transfer the wound to a friendly model in his own unit within 6". Doesn't matter if they're in cover and can't be allocated wounds. The IC was allocated the wound, and he's transferring it. No further debate needed there as per the rules.

And yes if they're in cover they still get cover saves.

IE the rules for Focus Fire say you can't allocate wounds to models not in the cover group specified. LoS allows you to transfer wounds allocated to characters.

yea...only the BRB FAQ has changed the whole rule and how it opperates.

'Page 16
– Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Delete “(or unsaved Wounds)” from the first paragraph.
Page 16
– Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Change the second sentence of the second bullet point to:
“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,
and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”

Page 26
– Assault phase, Look Out, Sir
Change the fourth sentence of the first paragraph to:
“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,
and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”

Clicky for FAQ

its all on the first page.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll double check my librarby but I believe without the declaration of focus fire it is resolved as if the unit would be in cover if more than 50% of the unit is in cover at the time the shooting attack takes place.

I'm open to being inccorect here but iirc that was the line used

You are incorrect, as soon as a unit has mixed saves we must allocate wounds one at a time. In which case cover saves are determined model by model. There is no such thing as unit majority saves any longer.

 hisdudeness wrote:
You are incorrect, as soon as a unit has mixed saves we must allocate wounds one at a time. In which case cover saves are determined model by model. There is no such thing as unit majority saves any longer.

There hasn't been, since fourth ed and the horror of mixed armour

When i play with friends and these kind of issues pop up, i tend to go towards what "makes sense" if the BRB can not resolve it. I agree with the sentiment that people will be on side A and B and duke it out until there's no one left alive. It's one of those things that GW needs to FAQ for us for it to get resolved.

Ultimately the game is about having fun and pushing cool models around. Don't let stupid discrepancies ruin the game or set a foul mood. Resolve it as best you can, and move on. Like i said, i generally lean towards "what makes sense" and i also tend to do it in favor of my opponent. Of course, i have only ever played with friends, but you get the idea.

It's pretty cut and dry in this case. No further FAQ needed. Prior to attem[ting to make any form of save, the player makes the look out sir test. If successfull the wound is resolved against the nearest enemy model as normal. What ever form of saves that model is allowed on a normal basis is allowed here. Look out sir is allowed even against focus fired shot similar to how it is also allowed against wounds caused by precision shots/strikes. I don't think it makes any sense in these cases but it is how rules read and if you do not agree with them talk with your opponent prior or make a house rule