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Ok, I was wondering what the highest rated chapter tactics are and which ones are worst. I heard people say Raven Guard is worst but I think black templar is worse. They Say imperial fists are the best but I think ultra marines are especially if you take tigurius.White scars I think are the number 1

I am asking because I really want to play raven guard and yeah I play mostly for fun and non competitive but I don't always want to lose either if the chapter tactics aren't enough for me to utilize. I like the salamanders master crafted rule but I don't like using a lot of Flamers. I want a mobile army for space marines but I don't want drop pod spam nor do I want to do bikes.

Is raven guard worth it or should I do something else?

They all have their pros and cons, and very in power depending on the army. Some require the army to be built around them, others are useful in almost any list. Here's a quick summary and review of each:

Ultramarines: Probably the best for versatility and if you've got a lot of tactical marines (the Tactical doctrine is great for the opening wave of a Drop Pod assault or as the enemy come into rapid-fire range) as well as other elements (Assault and Devsasator Doctrines are more situational, but obviously benefit their respective unit types the most). For best use, take Calgar and a nice mixed force.

Imperial Fists: The best for reliability, re-rolling half your misses on all bolter weapons. This is a nice passive bonus, and Tank Hunters makes their Devs very good against enemy armour. Lysander is also a beast in CC.

Iron Hands: This one really needs a list built around it, you need to be bringing a few vehicles to make this work for you but when it does, it will pay off a lot. It also opens up the IH Chapter master of Doom, with Artificer Armour, Shield Eternal, Bike, FNP (from command squad) and IWND for a 2+/3++/5+++/5++++ and Eternal Warrior. One of the most powerful generic HQs in the game.

Salamander: Best with drop pods, where your flamers can get into effective range with the bonuses faster. Same with Meltas if you take Vulkan.

White Scars: Obviously, this is the one if you want bikes, but is less useful for footslogging Rhinos.

Raven Guard: RG tactics are great for anything in Rhinos, as with 12" deployment, 12" scout, 6" move and a 6" disembark you can have the enemy board edge in Rapid Fire range by the end of turn 1, nearly as fast and flexible as Drop Pods with the added advantages of more mobility later on. Even with just footsloggers, having a 6" scout move across the whole army essentially gives you a 1 turn head start on objectives. Very nice for a TAC army wanting great mobility.

Templars: Essentially a different army with Crusader squads, I have little experience with them. Crusader squds do look nice on paper, but the tactics themselves are a little lacking at first glance.

So RG is more than playable, I'd pick it second after Ultras for something you can apply to any list rather than building one to fit. You should have no worries playing with it, it'll work just fine, especially in a casual meta.

Alright thank you very much that was amazing explanations, yeah I knew about the scout moves and being in rhinos or razorbacks its 12" totally sucks you can't do it with jump pack models though or land raiders.
Since bulky or very bulky don't benefit and only terminators and crusader squads can take land raiders as dedicaTed transports.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Depends on the build. I think bike armies are one of the stronger builds and White Scars are probably the best choice for that build, so White Scars CT are potentially the best, but you can't just take them and expect them to work really well without building your force around them.

Likewise, Iron Hands CT are godly if you build your list to take full advantage of them, but underwhelming if you don't.

I think that Ultramarines are probably the best overall choice, with some nice options for everything except bike and vehicle-heavy builds.

Imperial Fists, Salamanders and Raven Guard all occupy a middle ground; they benefit from being paired with a suitable army build a bit, but they also have decent general purpose abilities (almost every marine army will include bolters and flamers, re-rolling saves against flamers is often useful and giving every unit scout and first-turn stealth is pretty sweet).

I'd agree that Black Templars are one of the weakest CTs, but only because they mostly benefit weak builds (i.e: over-investing in characters and using close combat aggressively rather than as a defensive back-up).

I'd say that Raven Guard are a fairly good option. Their jump-pack bonus is a bit lame, but scout on pretty much every other unit gives you a significant tactical advantage and first-turn stealth is a good way to avoid giving up an easy victory point for first blood.

Very helpful thread! Which one, if i may ask, would make a good ally for dark angels? I collected a lot of random marine models before settling on dark angels and now i have two devastator squads, a dreadnought, a razorback, a drop pod and a 10 man tac squad left over, thinking of painting it up as a vanilla chapter as i'd like sternguard and maybe a stormraven.

pax_imperialis wrote:
Very helpful thread! Which one, if i may ask, would make a good ally for dark angels? I collected a lot of random marine models before settling on dark angels and now i have two devastator squads, a dreadnought, a razorback, a drop pod and a 10 man tac squad left over, thinking of painting it up as a vanilla chapter as i'd like sternguard and maybe a stormraven.

Well, the ones I wouldn't use:
White Scars: They do Ravenwing as good as than Ravenwing do, so if you're using Ravenwing you're not going to want even more bikers. The only exception is is you want a grav-biker Command Squad, but you don't list any bikes and any you do have are better as RW.

Imperial Fists: If you want real power from bolters, take the DA banner of Devastation, it massively outclasses the bonus given by IF tactics.

Templars: Crusader squads aren't the best unless used en masse, but you don't have the models of the FOC allowance to do that.

And the ones I'd seriously consider:

Imperial Fists: You can only get one Dev squad, but IF tactics are the best way to make use of them if they've got ML or Lascannons.

Ultramarines: Given your available mix of Tacticals and Devs, and the potential to add assault marines easily, this would bring a lot of versatility to the force, but you don't get the best advantage of the Chapter Tactics on such a small contingent, A good all-round choice, default to this if you don't like the others.

Sallies: You've got a pod, if you can throw in some flamers on the tacticals (special and combi) then this gives you a nice backfield sweeper unit, but doesn't benefit the rest of the force much. The sternnguard you're looking at would benefit from the re-rolls on combi-flamers, giving you a great anti-infantry alpha strike.

Iron Hands: This one is nice for the dread, the razorback and a potential stormraven. The 6+ FNP will not really manifest itself across only a small contingent, but the IWND will massively help for the Stormraven and allow you to play aggressively with the Dread.

I've put IF in both, as their usefulness really depends if you want the Devs or another option.

Hope that helps, I can be more helpful if I know what kind of DA you're using.

Iron Hands would be nice for the Devastator Squads as well if you take Vaylund Cal and make them T5.

Good advice! Sorry didnt mention, i run predominantly deathwing, basically the reason i changed to da. Im reading sons of dorn at the moment and the fists peak my interest, lysander would make an excellent ic to join in with my deathwing hammernators and the bolter drill sounds quite reliable. I do like iron hands but im not sure i could cram enough vehicles into an allied detachment to reap the full benefits of machine empathy. Are either of their supplements superior to the other? I understand clan raukaan gives your commander some epic wargear...

Deathwing and Salamanders in pods work really well, actually.

I've been experimenting with Dark Angels coupled with an Iron Hands gunline, but full disclosure: I haven't gotten it to work yet.

pax_imperialis wrote:
Good advice! Sorry didnt mention, i run predominantly deathwing, basically the reason i changed to da. Im reading sons of dorn at the moment and the fists peak my interest, lysander would make an excellent ic to join in with my deathwing hammernators and the bolter drill sounds quite reliable. I do like iron hands but im not sure i could cram enough vehicles into an allied detachment to reap the full benefits of machine empathy. Are either of their supplements superior to the other? I understand clan raukaan gives your commander some epic wargear...

Hmm, Lysander and Deathwing sounds like a great combination, and if you're not using greenwing with the banner of Devastation, then IF is more useful than my earlier post game it credit for. It's only a small bonus, but considering it's free and unlocks Lysander to roll with some DW, then it's a neat idea.

Salamander Pods could add a little more to your DWA alpha-strike, and the TL flamers can cover DW's weakness to hordes a bit.

IH is a bit more niche, but what might work if you're already using Land Raiders for the DW, then adding in an IH termie or Vanguard squad in an IIWND raider with a MOTF might be a nice, if expensive, addition to the list, something that can take even more punishment. Same goes for a stormraven.

No idea on the supplements, I'm afraid.

The iron hands supplement is a beast for master of the forge, with war gear and a lucky roll on the supplement warlord table your master of forge can have a 4+ feel no pain roll while on a bike.

Sons of dorn is interesting but unless its the main detachment only benefits from them is tank Hunters with devastator squads.

Well I had my first game with them yesterday against a Necrons player and it was pretty evenly matched until turn 4 when it was decidedly in my favor, it was big guns never tire and vanguard deployment. He had first turn I failed to seize. He got first blood and slay warlord, I had 3 objectives in end and 2 of his heavies. Can't tell if raven guard are soley worth it since there was night fighting so I already get stealth and necrons range is 24". My 2 7 man assault squads got shot up but I was able to make use of them and their double use of jump packs.

I'll post my list later in the proper thread.

What I have found that works best with Salamanders Drop Podding in are my Dark Angel Black Knights coming up the rear with a Libby ML2 & PFG on a bike I know you siad you don't want an entire Drop Pod or Bike list but this lists gives you bikes, Tacticals, Stern, Drop Pods, Allies, Black Knights, Scouts, and a Libby.

My list looks something like this....Works out pretty well for a 'All Comers List'

Vulkan

Tac x10 - MG/MM w/DP
Tac x10 - MG/MM w/DP
Tac x10 - Flamer/Combi-F w/DP
Tac x10 - Flamer/Combi-F w/DP

Stern x9 - 3-4 Combi-M/2 HF w/DP & Vulkan

Allies
Libby - ML2, PFG, Bike
Ravenwing Command Squad

Sniper Scouts x10

Black Knights x6