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"...if. at least one model in the charging unit moved through difficult terrain as part of its charge move, all of the unit's models must attack at Initiative step 1..." BRB pg 22

"Unless otherwise noted, battlefield debris is difficult terrain..." BRB pg 104

"Defense lines follow all the same rules for barricades and walls" BRB pg 104

"For the purposes of charge moves, models that are both in base contact with a barricade and within 2" of each other are treated as being in base contact." BRB pg 104

Having trouble finding the answer here. If you charge a unit that's behind a barricade/wall/defense line and your models only make base contact with the barricade/wall/defense line without moving over it do they still fight at initiative 1?

It seems to me they are not moving through difficult terrain so they would keep their normal initiative but perhaps base contact with the terrain is enough... I thought there was an FAQ on this but I'm not seeing it.

Per RAW , if you din't make a difficult terrain test, you are not reduced to Init 1, but i might be totally wrong.

Now it also depends in what kind of terrain the barricade sits, if it is in open terrain, then yes, if it is itself in a piece of terrain, even if you don't go over the barricade, you still have to make a test to get there.

you are going over the wall to fight the defenders, in order to prevent you from trying to play a balancing act with your models on top an ADL they say you can just make it into base with the wall and it's fine.

you still need to test and you still count as charging over it.

this is obviously not a problem for models equiped with assualt grenades.

RAW you are not going through the wall. If the wall is on open ground you can charge up to and stop at the wall with out having to take a difficult terrain test and have a successful charge if any enemy models are in base contact with the wall and within 2 inches of your charger.

Moral of the story, back your models up just a bit so none are in base contact with the wall. Your enemy will have to come through the wall to have a successful assault.

Yeah but if you are more then 2" from the wall you don't benefit from the Wall Cover.

But you can be 0.1 inches from the wall, not be in base contact with it and get almost the exact same cover.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah but if you are more then 2" from the wall you don't benefit from the Wall Cover.

Why not? It's just like anything else, you get cover if you're 25% obscured.

Thats how Aegis line rules works at least, or else if the unit that stands behind the ADL gives a cover save to the units they shoot at, since the shoots goes through/over a piece of terrain.

i don't have the book on hand so i can't check for sure, but from memory it is how it works.

That's not at all how it works.
True line of sight. Always true line of sight.
If the unit is close they'll be able to see over the wall without giving a cover save.

As Grendel said, it doesn't matter how far from the wall you are, even for an ADL. It still comes down to TLOS.

 grrrfranky wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah but if you are more then 2" from the wall you don't benefit from the Wall Cover.

Why not? It's just like anything else, you get cover if you're 25% obscured.

A unit doesn't even have to be 25% secured, it just needs to be partially obscured.

it roughly a 2:1 ratio for determining line of sight based on equally tall models. if a guardsmen is 5" behind the ADL and a space marine is 10" in front of it, the guardsman can see the marines toes, and no save for the marine. if the marine is any closer, they both get saves.

on topic, you still have to take a difficult terrain assault roll. you just don't have to actually go over the wall. it doesn't have to do with the attacker, but the defender. you're assaulting someone who is in difficult terrain (or behind)

Eldercaveman wrote:

 grrrfranky wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah but if you are more then 2" from the wall you don't benefit from the Wall Cover.

Why not? It's just like anything else, you get cover if you're 25% obscured.

A unit doesn't even have to be 25% secured, it just needs to be partially obscured.

Which is defined as 25%

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 grrrfranky wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah but if you are more then 2" from the wall you don't benefit from the Wall Cover.

Why not? It's just like anything else, you get cover if you're 25% obscured.

A unit doesn't even have to be 25% secured, it just needs to be partially obscured.

Which is defined as 25%

I haven't got my book with me at the moment but I thought that was just vehicles. I could just be mid remembering though. And if you are sure, then you are probably right, because im not overly sure.

 deviantduck wrote:


on topic, you still have to take a difficult terrain assault roll. you just don't have to actually go over the wall. it doesn't have to do with the attacker, but the defender. you're assaulting someone who is in difficult terrain (or behind)

This is what I thought but cannot find any supporting text for it. I'd like to be able to point it out if asked, do you know where I might find this in a rule?

 deviantduck wrote:
on topic, you still have to take a difficult terrain assault roll. you just don't have to actually go over the wall. it doesn't have to do with the attacker, but the defender. you're assaulting someone who is in difficult terrain (or behind)

I believe this is a misconception. the attacker has to charge through difficult terrain to cause the test. Now in normal situations in order to have a successful charge you need to get your model physically into base contact with an enemy model. To get into base contact with a model behind difficult terrain or within difficult terrain the attacker must also charge thorough said difficult terrain. However, because of the rules for walls you do not need to physically be in base contact with an enemy model, you just need to be in base contact with the wall and within two inches of an enemy model in base contact to the wall. This means you can stop the charge at the edge of the difficult terrain and never actually go though it.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
on topic, you still have to take a difficult terrain assault roll. you just don't have to actually go over the wall. it doesn't have to do with the attacker, but the defender. you're assaulting someone who is in difficult terrain (or behind)

I believe this is a misconception. the attacker has to charge through difficult terrain to cause the test. Now in normal situations in order to have a successful charge you need to get your model physically into base contact with an enemy model. To get into base contact with a model behind difficult terrain or within difficult terrain the attacker must also charge thorough said difficult terrain. However, because of the rules for walls you do not need to physically be in base contact with an enemy model, you just need to be in base contact with the wall and within two inches of an enemy model in base contact to the wall. This means you can stop the charge at the edge of the difficult terrain and never actually go though it.

This goes along with what I've read. I thought it worked differently but as I can't find anything more about this, I'll go with the rules as they are written.

Forget "theory" and go with the rules. Just don't be in base contact with the wall and it's a non-issue.

Also there is no 2" rule for walls....somebody has been playing Warmachine. lol

Wagguy80 wrote:Forget "theory" and go with the rules. Just don't be in base contact with the wall and it's a non-issue.

Also there is no 2" rule for walls....somebody has been playing Warmachine. lol

I included the 2" rule for walls in the original post...

Abandon wrote:

"For the purposes of charge moves, models that are both in base contact with a barricade and within 2" of each other are treated as being in base contact." BRB pg 104

Or did you mean some other 2" rule?


Edit: Oh, got it. Walls not barricades