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Hi everyone, I recently started a Deathwing army and would like some tips for an Army List. Here's what I have in mind:

HQ
Belial (190 pts)
Deathwing Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (5 pts) + Apothecary (30 pts) + Deathwing Company Banner (45 pts) + 200 pts = 300 pts)

Troops
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: Chainfist (5 pts) + Assault Cannon (20 pts) + 220 pts = 245 pts) [Note: This is the Dark Vengeance Terminator Squad]
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)

Elites
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)

What do you guys think? Gonna need a bit of help on the Upgrades for the 5 remaining Deathwing Terminator Squads.

First of all, what kind of points value are you going for? 2000? 1850? And secondly, I'd recommend taking at the most 4 squads for troops. Spend some points on a delivery system for the knights, like a Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader.

 ThePlaguedWarsmith wrote:
First of all, what kind of points value are you going for? 2000? 1850? And secondly, I'd recommend taking at the most 4 squads for troops. Spend some points on a delivery system for the knights, like a Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader.

Points? Hm.. honestly, I'm looking for a force which I could easily take some units out to match the game's point limit. I was wondering about whether or not I should take a form of transport... Looks like I'll take out 2 squads of Deathwing Terminators and take a LRC instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the updated list:

HQ
Belial (190 pts)
Deathwing Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (5 pts) + Apothecary (30 pts) + Deathwing Company Banner (45 pts) + 200 pts = 300 pts)

Troops
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: Chainfist (5 pts) + Assault Cannon (20 pts) + 220 pts = 245 pts) [Note: This is the Dark Vengeance Terminator Squad]
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)

Elites
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)
Land Raider Crusader (Dedicated Transport for 2 Deathwing Knight Squads) (Upgrades: Hunter Killer Missile (10 pts) + Deathwing Vehicle [Compulsory Upgrade] (30 pts) + 250 pts = 290 pts)

First question: Are you sure you want knights? I use my knight models for assault terminators most of the time. The reason is simply about scoring. You are slow and don't have many scoring units. Leaving some troops out for knights will hurt you. You can also stick a Chainfist + CML/HF in there if you need it, whereas knights are stuck with what they have. Overall, knights are cool, but Hammernators give you more flexibility and scoring.

I'd drop the deathwing banner in favour of the FNP banner. (it would only cost 10 more points, as you would normally remove the apothecary if you take it). Granting FNP to all units in 12 is much more beneficial than +1 attack per model imo.

Librarians are one of your best options in the codex. A cheap librarian in terminator armour will cost you 95 points, which isn't bad for prescience and 2 more wounds on the table.

I agree with the previous poster, that a delivery system for knights/assault terminators is essential. Crusaders are the best picks, although I'd take hunter killer off it and give it a MM instead, possibly extra armour to make sure the thing keeps moving.
(remember, you can take them without the deathwing vehicle upgrade by taking them as choices from the heavy support sectin if you need to).

Regarding the squad loadouts, CML tends to be the best option if you do not have a specific role in mind for the squad. Assault cannons are not bad, and chainfists are good if you com across things like soul grinders.
Overall you will want your squads in cc. Terminator shooting is pretty poor for their points values. If you make a dedicated cc unit, then please give it a transport.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
First question: Are you sure you want knights? I use my knight models for assault terminators most of the time. The reason is simply about scoring. You are slow and don't have many scoring units. Leaving some troops out for knights will hurt you. You can also stick a Chainfist + CML/HF in there if you need it, whereas knights are stuck with what they have. Overall, knights are cool, but Hammernators give you more flexibility and scoring.

I'd drop the deathwing banner in favour of the FNP banner. (it would only cost 10 more points, as you would normally remove the apothecary if you take it). Granting FNP to all units in 12 is much more beneficial than +1 attack per model imo.

Librarians are one of your best options in the codex. A cheap librarian in terminator armour will cost you 95 points, which isn't bad for prescience and 2 more wounds on the table.

I agree with the previous poster, that a delivery system for knights/assault terminators is essential. Crusaders are the best picks, although I'd take hunter killer off it and give it a MM instead, possibly extra armour to make sure the thing keeps moving.
(remember, you can take them without the deathwing vehicle upgrade by taking them as choices from the heavy support sectin if you need to).

Regarding the squad loadouts, CML tends to be the best option if you do not have a specific role in mind for the squad. Assault cannons are not bad, and chainfists are good if you com across things like soul grinders.
Overall you will want your squads in cc. Terminator shooting is pretty poor for their points values. If you make a dedicated cc unit, then please give it a transport.

Yes, I do want Knights as they are tougher than normal Terminators and basically annihilate anything without an invulnerable save. In response to the slowness, my plan is to DWA 90% of my troops to get them as close as to the enemy as possible. And because of my experiences with FIGHTING Deathwing (not good) I know taking lots of TH & SS is a good idea.
Drop the Deathwing Banner? OK.
I do have a Librarian from that Dark Vengeance boxed set, but should I proxy him as Ezekiel instead? Just wondering.
OK, off with the Hunter Killer and Deathwing Vehicle, on with the Multi Melta
I definitely am gonna take some CML, but how much is the question?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the updated list:

HQ
Belial (190 pts)
Deathwing Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (5 pts) Standard of Fortitude (85 pts) + 200 pts = 290 pts)
Librarian (Upgrades: Mastery Level 2 (35 pts) + Terminator Armour (30 pts) + ??? + 65 pts)

Troops
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: Chainfist (5 pts) + Assault Cannon (20 pts) + 220 pts = 245 pts) [Note: This is the Dark Vengeance Terminator Squad]
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: TH & SS x5 (25 pts) + CML (25 pts) + 220 pts = 270 pts)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: ???)

Elites
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader (Upgrades: MM (10 pts) + 250 pts = 260 pts)

??? means that this/these upgrades have remained undecided.

I would put a CML or AssCan in every tactical terminator squad. Because half of your units need to start on the board (unless there's been a FAQ) - no intention to sidetrack the discussion if YMDC figured otherwise - the transport capacity and/or ability to hit at long range while advancing is important.

Yes, I do want Knights as they are tougher than normal Terminators and basically annihilate anything without an invulnerable save.

Yes and no.
They are tougher vs small arms fire, but no tougher when put up against plasma and anything else str 7. They certainly annihilate most things for one turn a game, but after that they are only str 6 ap 4, which is nothing fantastic.
Assault terminators only have T4, WS4 and no hammer of wrath, but they do have ap 2 all the time, and still have that important 3++ save. Most importantly, they are scoring.

Now I use my knights in a fluffy list which has them riding in a LRC with a Interrogator chaplain armed with the Mace of Redemption. Can they steam roll anything they touch? Almost certainly. However I would never take more than 1 squad, as you are really taking away from your scoring potential if you do so.

So, I'd recommend 1 knights squad at most.

my plan is to DWA 90% of my troops to get them as close as to the enemy as possible.

Sorry, as the other guy said, DWA is still effected by the reserves limit, so 50% at most. It sucks but that's the way it is.
Remember that whilst belial has his guaranteed deep strike, he can be just as using his teleport beacon to make sure other units make it down safe. I think this works whilst in the landraider, so you could turbo boost the landraider on turn 1, and then get accurate deep strikes around the raider for a turn 3 charge.

Ezekiel is nothing special. I suppose the book he has could be useful if you are not using knights. He is still effectively a lvl 2 psyker though, as the mind worm skill is pretty poor. No invuln or ap2 either.
If you are considering characters without terminator armour, then certainly consider Azrael. He is a much better investment than Belial imo.

As for special weapons, every squad should have something. I normally run all of mine with CML (It works nice with split fire), with a squad or 2 of assault terminators with a heavy flamer/CF loadout to help deal with hordes and heavy walkers/land raiders.

 Verthane wrote:
I would put a CML or AssCan in every tactical terminator squad. Because half of your units need to start on the board (unless there's been a FAQ) - no intention to sidetrack the discussion if YMDC figured otherwise - the transport capacity and/or ability to hit at long range while advancing is important.

OK, a CML/AC in every squad. Check.
What's YMDC?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Yes, I do want Knights as they are tougher than normal Terminators and basically annihilate anything without an invulnerable save.

Yes and no.
They are tougher vs small arms fire, but no tougher when put up against plasma and anything else str 7. They certainly annihilate most things for one turn a game, but after that they are only str 6 ap 4, which is nothing fantastic.
Assault terminators only have T4, WS4 and no hammer of wrath, but they do have ap 2 all the time, and still have that important 3++ save. Most importantly, they are scoring.

Now I use my knights in a fluffy list which has them riding in a LRC with a Interrogator chaplain armed with the Mace of Absolution. Can they steam roll anything they touch? Almost certainly. However I would never take more than 1 squad, as you are really taking away from your scoring potential if you do so.

So, I'd recommend 1 knights squad at most.

Goddamn good thing I only bought one Knight Squad. I really only said they annihilate stuff without an Invulnerable save because I tend to play against a lot of horde armies (Orks, Tyranids etc.)

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

my plan is to DWA 90% of my troops to get them as close as to the enemy as possible.

Sorry, as the other guy said, DWA is still effected by the reserves limit, so 50% at most. It sucks but that's the way it is.
Remember that whilst belial has his guaranteed deep strike, he can be just as using his teleport beacon to make sure other units make it down safe. I think this works whilst in the landraider, so you could turbo boost the landraider on turn 1, and then get accurate deep strikes around the raider for a turn 3 charge.

Ezekiel is nothing special. I suppose the book he has could be useful if you are not using knights. He is still effectively a lvl 2 psyker though, as the mind worm skill is pretty poor. No invuln or ap2 either.
If you are considering characters without terminator armour, then certainly consider Azrael. He is a much better investment than Belial imo.

As for special weapons, every squad should have something. I normally run all of mine with CML (It works nice with split fire), with a squad or 2 of assault terminators with a heavy flamer/CF loadout to help deal with hordes and heavy walkers/land raiders.

I can only Deep Strike 50% of them? Damn... did NOT know that. Haven't played 40K in a long time.
Thanks to you, I have finally realised Belial has a Teleport Homer.
OK, no to Ezekiel.
Hmmm. Azrael? TBH I've been thinking about that guy for a looong time and considering whether or not he is better than Belial. Still in a dilemma.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Belial (190 pts) (Possibly replaced by Azreal?)
Deathwing Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (5 pts) Standard of Fortitude (85 pts) + 200 pts = 290 pts)
Librarian (Upgrades: Mastery Level 2 (35 pts) + Terminator Armour (30 pts) + ??? (Some Chapter Relics? Special Wargear?) + 65 pts)

Troops
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: Chainfist (5 pts) + AC (20 pts) + 220 pts = 245 pts) [Note: This is the Dark Vengeance Terminator Squad]
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: TH & SS x5 (25 pts) + CML (25 pts) + 220 pts = 270 pts)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: AC (20 pts) + ??? + 220 pts)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: CML (25 pts) + ??? + 220 pts)

Elites
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader (Upgrades: MM (10 pts) + 250 pts = 260 pts)

??? means that this/these upgrades have remained undecided.

Just to clarify, the beacon on Belial only works if he is on the board at the start of the turn - so no deep striking him and then other units around him in one go.

Now as to Belial or Azrael....Azrael is better by a longshot, there is almost no competition.
Belial does have a few advantages - Terminator armour allows deepstrike, and unlocks deathwing command squad, which azrael doesn't. He can also take a TH/SS or his sword, both of which are better than azrael's weapon.

Azrael gives a lot though for those 25 extra points - 4+ invulnerable to the unit he is with, guaranteed warlord trait, +1 wound, +2 attacks, combi plasma, scoring ravenwing and all units in the army can use his leadership (not normally important with a pure deathwing list as all your units are fearless, however it can help with split fire or if the enemy is using terrify on you).

The one thing I hold against Azrael is his lack of terminator armour, he just looks out of place in the deathwing, other than that he is much better than Belial.

Deathwing Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (5 pts) Standard of Fortitude (85 pts) + 200 pts = 290 pts)
Librarian (Upgrades: Mastery Level 2 (35 pts) + Terminator Armour (30 pts) + ??? (Some Chapter Relics? Special Wargear?) + 65 pts)

Little nitpick here: why take them champion if you are not gearing the rest of the squad up for cc? I'd either set them up purely for cc if you want him, or leave him out.

The librarian doesn't need any chapter relics. Most are bad, the only good one is mace of redemption, but you don't want that on a librarian as you will want him using his force weapon most of the time.
The only thing you need to consider for him is perhaps a combi-weapon, and/or a PFG.

Lastly, 1 landraider might not last too long, running multiples of vehicles is usually wise. This is especially true if you still have hammernators without a ride.

For fun games I like to use this:

HQ
Belial - TH/SS

DW Command Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF, Standard of Devestation

Techmarine - Bike, PFG

TROOPS
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF

Dedicated Transports
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle

2000pts

Not overly competitive with 2 scoring units, but can be fun to play against the right armies.
Basically you try to bubble wrap the techmarine with tanks, to block LoS to him, and also give 4++ to all the landraiders.
The Devastation banner goes in the middle landraider, giving you 72 TL bolter shots from your landraiders a turn.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Just to clarify, the beacon on Belial only works if he is on the board at the start of the turn - so no deep striking him and then other units around him in one go.

Now as to Belial or Azrael....Azrael is better by a longshot, there is almost no competition.
Belial does have a few advantages - Terminator armour allows deepstrike, and unlocks deathwing command squad, which azrael doesn't. He can also take a TH/SS or his sword, both of which are better than azrael's weapon.

Azrael gives a lot though for those 25 extra points - 4+ invulnerable to the unit he is with, guaranteed warlord trait, +1 wound, +2 attacks, combi plasma, scoring ravenwing and all units in the army can use his leadership (not normally important with a pure deathwing list as all your units are fearless, however it can help with split fire or if the enemy is using terrify on you).

The one thing I hold against Azrael is his lack of terminator armour, he just looks out of place in the deathwing, other than that he is much better than Belial.

One thing I DON'T like about Azreal is his sword. Pretty pissed that it's apparently the "most powerful" even though it's not. Str 6 isn't really gonna get you much. Fleshbane, in my opinion, is much better. Another thing is that I want a Deathwing Command squad because of a Str 6 AP 2 for 5 pts. And the fact they have Terminator Armour, of course.
Well, I'll have to think about that one.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Deathwing Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (5 pts) Standard of Fortitude (85 pts) + 200 pts = 290 pts)
Librarian (Upgrades: Mastery Level 2 (35 pts) + Terminator Armour (30 pts) + ??? (Some Chapter Relics? Special Wargear?) + 65 pts)

Little nitpick here: why take them champion if you are not gearing the rest of the squad up for cc? I'd either set them up purely for cc if you want him, or leave him out.

The librarian doesn't need any chapter relics. Most are bad, the only good one is mace of absolution, but you don't want that on a librarian as you will want him using his force weapon most of the time.
The only thing you need to consider for him is perhaps a combi-weapon, and/or a PFG.

OK. No chapter relics.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Lastly, 1 landraider might not last too long, running multiples of vehicles is usually wise. This is especially true if you still have hammernators without a ride.

For fun games I like to use this:

HQ
Belial - TH/SS

DW Command Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF, Standard of Devestation

Techmarine - Bike, PFG

TROOPS
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF

Dedicated Transports
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle

2000pts

Not overly competitive with 2 scoring units, but can be fun to play against the right armies.
Basically you try to bubble wrap the techmarine with tanks, to block LoS to him, and also give 4++ to all the landraiders.
The Devastation banner goes in the middle landraider, giving you 72 TL bolter shots from your landraiders a turn.

I'm not a big fan a DW Vehicle, so I'm gonna need to place my Land Raiders in HS. Maybe 2-3 LRC? That would put a hole in my pocket.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ
Belial (190 pts)
Deathwing Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (5 pts) Standard of Fortitude (85 pts) + 200 pts = 290 pts)
Librarian (Upgrades: Mastery Level 2 (35 pts) + Terminator Armour (30 pts) + Power Field Generator (30 pts) + 65 pts = 160 pts)
OR
Azreal (215 pts)
Command Squad (Upgrades: Company Champion (15 pts) + Standard of Fortitude (85 pts) + ??? + 100 pts)
Librarian (Upgrades: Mastery Level 2 (35 pts) + Terminator Armour (30 pts) + Power Field Generator (30 pts) + 65 pts = 160 pts)

Troops
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: Chainfist (5 pts) + AC (20 pts) + 220 pts = 245 pts) [Note: This is the Dark Vengeance Terminator Squad]
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: TH & SS x5 (25 pts) + CML (25 pts) + 220 pts = 270 pts)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: AC (20 pts) + ??? + 220 pts)
Deathwing Terminator Squad (Upgrades: CML (25 pts) + ??? + 220 pts)

Elites
Deathwing Knights Squad (Upgrades: Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (10 pts) + 235 pts = 245 pts)

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader (Upgrades: MM (10 pts) + 250 pts = 260 pts)
Land Raider Crusader (Upgrades: MM (10 pts) + 250 pts = 260 pts)
Possibly...
Land Raider Crusader (Upgrades: MM (10 pts) + 250 pts = 260 pts)

??? means that this/these upgrades have remained undecided.

You do know that list is pushing 2700 points right? There's no way you'll get to use that much in a normal game.

And once escalation things are used against you I'm afraid there is very little chance of DW doing much.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
You do know that list is pushing 2700 points right? There's no way you'll get to use that much in a normal game.

And once escalation things are used against you I'm afraid there is very little chance of DW doing much.

Oh. Did not realise that.
The problem with playing Space Marines and their variants.
Do you have any suggestion on how I could cut down?

There's no easy way, deathwing are naturally expensive units. Each squad will normally be around the 250 points mark.
So basically, you get to choose 4 squads or raiders per 1000 points

Just think about it in this way and you can get a good estimation of how many points an army will cost.

1000 points will normally be 3 squads + belial, or belial, 2 squads and a LRC.

1500 will be the same as above but with 10 more terminators, or another LRC and 5 terminators.


Your army will be small, that's why I really consider the lack of scoring on knights to be their greatest downfall.
On the plus side, DW are one of the cheapest armies to collect.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
There's no easy way, deathwing are naturally expensive units. Each squad will normally be around the 250 points mark.
So basically, you get to choose 4 squads or raiders per 1000 points

Just think about it in this way and you can get a good estimation of how many points an army will cost.

1000 points will normally be 3 squads + belial, or belial, 2 squads and a LRC.

1500 will be the same as above but with 10 more terminators, or another LRC and 5 terminators.


Your army will be small, that's why I really consider the lack of scoring on knights to be their greatest downfall.

So if I'm going of 2000 points (with the ability to remove troops to reduce points), what should I get?

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
On the plus side, DW are one of the cheapest armies to collect.

Haha, true. Good thing for someone like me that doesn't have much cash to spend on 40K.

For 2k points, something like this is pretty standard.


HQ
Belial - TH/SS

TROOPS
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF - Landraider
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF - Landraider

Deathwing squad - CML
Deathwing squad - CML
Deathwing squad - HF

2000 points

If you wanted to you could replace 1 or both of the assault squads with knights.
Belial could deep dstrike in with the HF squad if needed.

If you shuffle points around you could take one of the squads as deathwing command, losing a scoring unit but gaining access to a standard.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
For 2k points, something like this is pretty standard.


HQ
Belial - TH/SS

TROOPS
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF - Landraider
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF - Landraider

Deathwing squad - CML
Deathwing squad - CML
Deathwing squad - HF

2000 points

If you wanted to you could replace 1 or both of the assault squads with knights.
Belial could deep dstrike in with the HF squad if needed.

If you shuffle points around you could take one of the squads as deathwing command, losing a scoring unit but gaining access to a standard.

Let's see, I'll add some stuff and take stuff out to get this:

HQ
Belial - TH/SS - 190 pts
Deathwing Command Squad - Standard of Fortitude, Company Champion, 4x TH/SS - 315 pts

Troops
Deathwing Terminators Squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x HF + LRC (MM, DW Vehicle) - 250 pts + 290 pts
Deathwing Terminators Squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x CF + LRC (MM, DW Vehicle) - 245 pts + 290 pts
Deathwing Terminators Squad - CML - 245 pts

Elites
Deathwing Knights - PROU - 245 pts

TOTAL - 2070
More or less 2000 pts, if my opponent is feeling nice for some extra room.
Another thing - what about a Librarian? Would it be advisable to take some upgrades out for one?

List is currently 85 points over, (I think you have the price of the banner wrong). The easiest way to take that out is by removing the banner.

A different way to change the list would be to take the knights or the backfield Termies squad (CML squad) out. This would give 160 points to play with. A librarian is a decent pick, you could keep him cheap and just get terminator armour, for some fluffy prescience.
You would be losing another unit however, scoring or otherwise.

At the moment you have 4 melee squads, and only 2 transports. What is your plan for the other 2? Run them behind the raiders? Deep strike them in on turn 2 for a turn 3 charge?
If you wanted a librarian and to keep the points down I'd try this. Personally I like the knight models, but I use them as assault terminators instead.

Maybe something like this if you decide to remove a squad to get the points right.

HQ
Belial - TH/SS
Deathwing Command Squad - 3x TH/SS, 1x HF&CF + LRC, Champion, Standard of fortitude

Librarian, Lvl 2, teminator armour, melta bombs

Troops
Deathwing Terminators Squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x HF&CF + LRC (MM, DW Vehicle)
Deathwing Terminators Squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x HF&CF + LRC (MM, DW Vehicle)
Deathwing Terminators Squad - CML - 245 pts

TOTAL - 2000

You could have the 2 troops assault units in the raiders, belial with one unit and the librarian with the other, or both together to make a little deathstar.
I would try and DWA the command squad to come down on the 2nd turn - this should be when the first charges out of the landraiders happen, so you can give the squads FNP when they need it. (Remember deepstriking units can not assault on the turn they drop though).

The final squad I would have dropping in later as well, to keep them alive and claim my home objective.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
List is currently 85 points over, (I think you have the price of the banner wrong). The easiest way to take that out is by removing the banner.

A different way to change the list would be to take the knights or the backfield Termies squad (CML squad) out. This would give 160 points to play with. A librarian is a decent pick, you could keep him cheap and just get terminator armour, for some fluffy prescience.
You would be losing another unit however, scoring or otherwise.

At the moment you have 4 melee squads, and only 2 transports. What is your plan for the other 2? Run them behind the raiders? Deep strike them in on turn 2 for a turn 3 charge?
If you wanted a librarian and to keep the points down I'd try this. Personally I like the knight models, but I use them as assault terminators instead.

Maybe something like this if you decide to remove a squad to get the points right.

HQ
Belial - TH/SS
Deathwing Command Squad - 3x TH/SS, 1x HF&CF + LRC, Champion, Standard of fortitude

Librarian, Lvl 2, teminator armour, melta bombs

Troops
Deathwing Terminators Squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x HF&CF + LRC (MM, DW Vehicle)
Deathwing Terminators Squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x HF&CF + LRC (MM, DW Vehicle)
Deathwing Terminators Squad - CML - 245 pts

TOTAL - 2000

You could have the 2 troops assault units in the raiders, belial with one unit and the librarian with the other, or both together to make a little deathstar.
I would try and DWA the command squad to come down on the 2nd turn - this should be when the first charges out of the landraiders happen, so you can give the squads FNP when they need it. (Remember deepstriking units can not assault on the turn they drop though).

The final squad I would have dropping in later as well, to keep them alive and claim my home objective.

Only problem with that list is I already have a box of Deathwing Knights (oops). I bought them BEFORE I got the Codex (Lesson number 1 billion for 40K: never buy a unit before buying the Codex). Using them as Assault Terminators would be OK for casual games, but probably not for nasty people who are rich and don't like proxying. Otherwise, I like the list, especially because I already have a squad of Terminators (Oh crap, that's not gonna fit because those are the Dark Vengeance Terminators. Maybe I could switch the CML for an AC and a CF. ) and a Librarian. And for larger games I have a spare Interrogator-Chaplain. Gonna go save up for 2 Land Raiders, 2 more Deathwing Terminator boxes, and Belial.
One problem though: the Deathwing Terminator box only comes with 1 TH/5 SS (I have the TH still, but I've used up all 5 SS). What should I do to get more TH? Buy some bits? I could get some from my LGS, but it's unlikely.

I've personally taken the assault cannon off my dv terminator and given him a CML, its fairly easy to do. AC or AC and CF works fine as an alternative too.

As for the knights, I don't think it's a problem using them as TH/SS termies. The only issue is if you are using a mix of knights and TH/SS in a list, which will confuse the opposition.
Is it proxying? Only to the slightest degree possible. They are terminators, they have storm shields, and a melee weapon for hitting . The only difference is the knights have robes and a few spikes on their weapons. Even players with only the slightest degree of sportsmanship should not have a problem with it as long as you tell them clearly before. This is much easier than trying to find thunderhammers for them.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
I've personally taken the assault cannon off my dv terminator and given him a CML, its fairly easy to do. AC or AC and CF works fine as an alternative too.

How?

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

As for the knights, I don't think it's a problem using them as TH/SS termies. The only issue is if you are using a mix of knights and TH/SS in a list, which will confuse the opposition.
Is it proxying? Only to the slightest degree possible. They are terminators, they have storm shields, and a melee weapon for hitting . The only difference is the knights have robes and a few spikes on their weapons. Even players with only the slightest degree of sportsmanship should not have a problem with it as long as you tell them clearly before. This is much easier than trying to find thunderhammers for them.

Hmmm... good point!

It's an easy swap as the assault cannon arm is a single piece. I used a spare storm bolter from another set of terminators to replace it, an then the CML just fits on his back. One of the most simple swaps you can do.

For smaller points games[url], before you invest in land raiders etc, you can just use 3 deathwing squads as your list. Like this maybe:

HQ
Belial

Terminator Command Squad - plasmacannon (assault cannon), Standard of Fortitude.

Troops
Deathwing Squad - CML (assault cannon)
Deathwing Squad - CML (assault cannon)

1000 points


Pretty simple footslogging list centred around the FNP banner. Special weapons can all be changed to assault cannons if you like.
Just remember though that shooting is not a strength of termnators.

This should help you get a feel for how deathwing play as you build up your army.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
It's an easy swap as the assault cannon arm is a single piece. I used a spare storm bolter from another set of terminators to replace it, an then the CML just fits on his back. One of the most simple swaps you can do.

For smaller points games[url], before you invest in land raiders etc, you can just use 3 deathwing squads as your list. Like this maybe:

HQ
Belial

Terminator Command Squad - plasmacannon (assault cannon), Standard of Fortitude.

Troops
Deathwing Squad - CML (assault cannon)
Deathwing Squad - CML (assault cannon)

1000 points


Pretty simple footslogging list centred around the FNP banner. Special weapons can all be changed to assault cannons if you like.
Just remember though that shooting is not a strength of termnators.

This should help you get a feel for how deathwing play as you build up your army.

Thanks for the help!

OK, I just went through the 2000 point list, and it seems that it's 295 points over! What should I take out?
EDIT: Never mind, I figured out what's wrong.

Just my thoughts here for an 1850 list. Feel free to make any mods or comments. I've seen this in action on a competitive level with slight variations in the load outs, and it works rather well.


HQ

Azrael (TH/SS) 190pts
Librarian in terminator armor 95pts

Elites
Dreadnought DCCW/Heavy Flamer + Twin-linked Heavy Flamer with Drop pod. 150pts
Dreadnought Missile Launcher + Twin-linked Las Cannon 135pts

Troops

DW Terminator Squad (10 man) 2x Heavy Flamer 460pts
DW Terminator Squad (5 man) 1x CML with TH/SS 250pts
DW Terminator Squad (5 man) 1x CML with TH/SS 250pts

Dedicated Transport/Heavy (Your call)
Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-melta 255pts.

Comes out to roughly 1785pts.

At 1850 leaves you 65 pts to play with for load outs and variations or upgrades or extra TH/SS purchases.

Basically you DW Strike Azrael and the ten man attached to him where every you want to do the most damage to infantry. They come in, along with the pod Dread, and do what we call the ball of fire. Lots of auto hitting, rerolling to wound flamer shots followed up by a ton of storm bolter shots. It's a pretty nasty first turn punch. Load the libby with a squad in the redeemer and punch up the board, and use your other five man to hold objectives at a distance with the CML. There's many ways to tweek it depending on your play style. Assault sqads, mixing squads with TH/SS or Twin LCs, and such. Just be careful, remember that 99% of the time you're going to be out numbered and out gunned. Gotta maximize your punches. If you shoot to 2000, add some more bodies and guns, or just go crazy.

hex wrote:
Just my thoughts here for an 1850 list. Feel free to make any mods or comments. I've seen this in action on a competitive level with slight variations in the load outs, and it works rather well.


HQ

Azrael (TH/SS) 190pts
Librarian in terminator armor 95pts

Elites
Dreadnought DCCW/Heavy Flamer + Twin-linked Heavy Flamer with Drop pod. 150pts
Dreadnought Missile Launcher + Twin-linked Las Cannon 135pts

Troops

DW Terminator Squad (10 man) 2x Heavy Flamer 460pts
DW Terminator Squad (5 man) 1x CML with TH/SS 250pts
DW Terminator Squad (5 man) 1x CML with TH/SS 250pts

Dedicated Transport/Heavy (Your call)
Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-melta 255pts.

Comes out to roughly 1785pts.

At 1850 leaves you 65 pts to play with for load outs and variations or upgrades or extra TH/SS purchases.

Basically you DW Strike Azrael and the ten man attached to him where every you want to do the most damage to infantry. They come in, along with the pod Dread, and do what we call the ball of fire. Lots of auto hitting, rerolling to wound flamer shots followed up by a ton of storm bolter shots. It's a pretty nasty first turn punch. Load the libby with a squad in the redeemer and punch up the board, and use your other five man to hold objectives at a distance with the CML. There's many ways to tweek it depending on your play style. Assault sqads, mixing squads with TH/SS or Twin LCs, and such. Just be careful, remember that 99% of the time you're going to be out numbered and out gunned. Gotta maximize your punches. If you shoot to 2000, add some more bodies and guns, or just go crazy.

I don't think you can DW assault with Azreal.

You are correct. No DS with Azrael, as he isn't wearing terminator armour. (No DW command squad either, if he is your only HQ choice)

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
You are correct. No DS with Azrael, as he isn't wearing terminator armour. (No DW command squad either, if he is your only HQ choice)

Wait a sec, but if you take the librarian in Terminator armour, you can take the DW Command Squad, then dump Azreal in there. But no DW Assault though...

 dalekslayer96 wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
You are correct. No DS with Azrael, as he isn't wearing terminator armour. (No DW command squad either, if he is your only HQ choice)

Wait a sec, but if you take the librarian in Terminator armour, you can take the DW Command Squad, then dump Azreal in there. But no DW Assault though...

Yeah sure that works fine. One of the problems with running Azrael over belial is that you need to take another HQ in terminator armour to get the command squad. Azrael can join them, but they cannot deepstrike together.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 dalekslayer96 wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
You are correct. No DS with Azrael, as he isn't wearing terminator armour. (No DW command squad either, if he is your only HQ choice)

Wait a sec, but if you take the librarian in Terminator armour, you can take the DW Command Squad, then dump Azreal in there. But no DW Assault though...

Yeah sure that works fine. One of the problems with running Azrael over belial is that you need to take another HQ in terminator armour to get the command squad. Azrael can join them, but they cannot deepstrike together.

Oh wait, I think he means Belial (190 pts, TH/SS). Then that would work perfectly.

When ever I run my deathwing army I always onlyrun two squads from dark veng and I throw them in a grp of five extra terms with th/sh and add a cml, two squads of ten and a few extra five man squads of th/sh/cml.
Always run Belial and a lib in term arm that lets me have two comand squads with two baners and put the oponent under the pum of who to go first. Sadly I dont own a land raider so . Find things slow moving but I counter that with deep strike and always deep strike on turn one. I never run knights, a squad of five normal termies with th/sh is cheaper and the th hits harder than the rubber ball the knights have, and also knights cant have a cml so thats another bonus.
Not sure if any of that helps but I have a lot of fun with it and my opponent's faces are always fun when they see a blob of ten drop in with fnp right next to big costing squads and I just split fire then charge and mow them down.
Happy hunting