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Just wondering why some characters, eg lysander, have two invulnerable saves. Is it just a fluff thing, in which case is the points cost disregarded, or do you get a reroll in those cases? Seems overkill to me and the rulebook has always said you just get the one save.

When a character has two or more Inv saves - such as any model in possession of an Iron Halo and TDA and/or a Storm Shield, it is generally assumed that they have to take the best save they have.
Therefore they will only make one Inv save.

However, if one of those pieces of equipment were negated somehow (possibly by a special rule), the next best one would be taken.

Right, gotcha. Yeah thats the way ive always thought it worked, but just noticed lysander has a iron halo and storm shield as standard and had a brief, crazy hope that characters could be more indestructible than i thought

pax_imperialis wrote:
Right, gotcha. Yeah thats the way ive always thought it worked, but just noticed lysander has a iron halo and storm shield as standard and had a brief, crazy hope that characters could be more indestructible than i thought

Chapter Masters always have Iron Halos, Lysander is no exception

 CrownAxe wrote:

pax_imperialis wrote:
Right, gotcha. Yeah thats the way ive always thought it worked, but just noticed lysander has a iron halo and storm shield as standard and had a brief, crazy hope that characters could be more indestructible than i thought

Chapter Masters always have Iron Halos, Lysander is no exception

Captains have Iron halos too and Lysander is one of them. He also has a ++ save with his terminator armour.

 Selym wrote:
When a character has two or more Inv saves - such as any model in possession of an Iron Halo and TDA and/or a Storm Shield, it is Rules as Written that they have to take the best save they have.
Therefore they will only make one Inv save.

However, if one of those pieces of equipment were negated somehow (possibly by a special rule), the next best one would be taken.

FTFY

It s fluff based really. Lysander rocks around in terminator armour (5+), all captains have an iron halo (4+) almost like a badge of station, and he has a storm shield so he can tank hits as he does (3+).

The whole "Fixed That For You" is something that's generally frowned upon here - mostly because of its potential as a way to insult someone.

Not saying that's what is happening here - just a general heads up.

Yeah i just remember seeing on 1d4chan someones explanation of an iron hands character build with 2+, 3++, 5+++ and 5++++ and wondering what all that meant. I know the ++ is invuln, assumed the other were fnp and maybe jink or something, just all seemed superfluous having a 5 up jink or cover when you have a 3 up invuln, so i inquired as to whether im missing out on any secret bonus save. Although as mentioned, some weapons ignore invuln so i suppose it is still handy. Thanks!

pax_imperialis wrote:
2+, 3++, 5+++ and 5++++

Armour save, Invulnerable save, Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die presumably.

pax_imperialis wrote:
Yeah i just remember seeing on 1d4chan someones explanation of an iron hands character build with 2+, 3++, 5+++ and 5++++ and wondering what all that meant.

Likely a 2+ armor save, 3+ invulnerable save, 5+ FNP and 5+ IWND.

In that case it is actually a 2+ armour with a 3+ invulnerable a FNP and then an It Will Not Die roll of a 5+

Most important reason for multiple invulerable saves come in the case that some (very few) models have an ability to negate or remove a piece of wargear. I believe specifically the Vindicare assasin has a special shot which will destroy a piece of wargear generating an invulnerable save. ( correct me if I'm wrong, please)

Also as another clarifier you nearly always get your invulnerable save. The number of circumstances you do not is very small. Most common being POTW and JOTWW. I really can't think of many others.

 dmthomas7 wrote:
Also as another clarifier you nearly always get your invulnerable save. The number of circumstances you do not is very small. Most common being POTW and JOTWW. I really can't think of many others.

D-weapons.

Really. . . wow did not realize that one. That makes sense but really doesn't at the same time.

Also the Vindicare Assassin's Shield Breaker shot doesn't completely destroy the wargear generating the invul save, but it does remove ALL invul saves generated by wargear on the target.

Example is if your invul is from TDA and the Vindicare shoots you, you will keep the 2+ armour from the gear, just not the 5++

Since shield-breaker removes all wargear-created invulnerable saves, having terminator armor, iron halo, and storm shield still leaves you without an invulnerable save.

I can't really think of anything that would negate a storm shield without also negating the iron halo and terminator armor invulnerable saves.

 Alpharius wrote:
The whole "Fixed That For You" is something that's generally frowned upon here - mostly because of its potential as a way to insult someone.

Not saying that's what is happening here - just a general heads up.

Sorry, I was not trying to insult, just to fix one small section as the rest was spot on.

Pyrian wrote:
Since shield-breaker removes all wargear-created invulnerable saves, having terminator armor, iron halo, and storm shield still leaves you without an invulnerable save.

I can't really think of anything that would negate a storm shield without also negating the iron halo and terminator armor invulnerable saves.

If another character like St. Celestine gets introduced. St. Celestine has a 2+, 4++, & 6++. The 2+/4++ comes from her armor, which the Vindicare's shot would remove that 4++, but she would still have her 6++ from her Shield of Faith special rule.

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
Since shield-breaker removes all wargear-created invulnerable saves, having terminator armor, iron halo, and storm shield still leaves you without an invulnerable save.

I can't really think of anything that would negate a storm shield without also negating the iron halo and terminator armor invulnerable saves.

If another character like St. Celestine gets introduced. St. Celestine has a 2+, 4++, & 6++. The 2+/4++ comes from her armor, which the Vindicare's shot would remove that 4++, but she would still have her 6++ from her Shield of Faith special rule.

And let's not forget anything with the Daemon SR will get a 5++ on backup if equipment - based Inv saves get removed.
Can't think of any examples atm though.