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2014/01/04 18:41:04
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
The Space Marines or Adeptus Astartes are foremost amongst the defenders of humanity, the greatest of the Emperor of Mankind's warriors.
Clad in ancient Power Armour and wielding the most potent weapons known to Man, the Space Marines are terrifying foes and their devotion to the Emperor and the Imperium of Man is unyielding.
The Space Marines are the Imperium of Man’s supreme warriors. Genetically-enhanced to be the ultimate soldiers of Mankind, they are far stronger and more resilient than ordinary human beings.
He is protected by a suit of Power Armour, shielding him from the fiercest of enemy fire whilst simultaneously strengthening his blows and allowing him to survive the most hostile of environments.
The Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes are the greatest fighting force of the Imperium of Man. Genetically-enhanced to serve Mankind as humanity's ultimate warriors, they are far stronger and more resilient than even the most exceptional unenhanced human beings.
It is obvious that a Stormtrooper is nowhere near the equal of that. One can only handwave and blame so many quotes and different sources on 'codex bias' when they are described as both better warriors than any non-Astartes human, and using the best equipment.
2014/01/09 16:12:05
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
Fezman wrote: Personally I'm inclined to go with the Marines, but the Stormtroopers could win if they played to their strengths. In a straight-up firefight I think the Troopers are doomed. But that wouldn't be a situation the Troopers (and bear in mind the ones working for an Inquisitor are the best of the best) would allow to happen except as a last resort. Stormtrooper fluff makes it clear that covert ops are their thing.
Also, even if they can pull off an ambush the Troopers have to work fast and make their shots count. Space Marines have so many advantages that they're going to be able to hit back very quickly.They're conditioned to be able to overcome panic and assess the battlefield instantly (as represented by ATSKNF). One misplaced shot, even from a hotshot weapon, can be turned or soaked up by their armour. Their superior reflexes and autosenses will let them spot their attackers in their hiding places. And let's not forget that they can get chunks blown out of their bodies or lose limbs and keep on fighting.
So overall the Marines would have a big advantage, but the Strotroopers could win if they could hit hard with overwhelming force and no warning and were prepared to withdraw if things didn't go exactly to plan.
This is has been my point as soon as those storm troopers fire a marine will automatically know where he is and a Bolter shell ( which easily punch through carapace armour ) will quickly follow either killing said storm trooper or taking him out of the fight
Lets not forget power armour has many sensors to help a marine detect threats and many aim assists to ensure that his shots count
Also hotshot lasguns are a thing that has been fabricated for guard to kill marines easier on the board where as a Bolter is a mile away from its real potencial oh yea and did anyone take into account they also get hot ?? That would have a drastic effect in a real fire fight in fluff world
While Bolters would, perhaps, not smash through carapace armour as if it wasn't there (At least not at long range) the concussion, explosion, and the fact that the Bolter is an automatic weapon would still mean that the Stormtrooper would not be looking too healthy afterwards.
2014/01/13 22:44:09
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
If the Stormtroopers were able to successfully spring an ambush on the Space Marines, you'd have a bunch of dead Space Marines in very short order, because hellguns give not a single feth about Power Armor.
By the same token, boltguns don't really care about carapace, and in close-quarters combat, the Marine has the size, speed and strength to easily overpower a Stormtrooper.
It sets a rather unrealistic premise though. You'd need an ambush, and I assume both units have some kind of auspex as standard issue, not to mention the autosenses of the Marines.
Not to mention both most likely being trained to actually use said equipment properly, greatly reducing the risk of being ambushed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 22:44:56
2014/01/13 22:49:46
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Not to mention both most likely being trained to actually use said equipment properly, greatly reducing the risk of being ambushed.
The assertion that Space Marines can never be ambushed is amusing considering how many times Space Marines have been ambushed.
It wouldn't be too hard to trick them in to an ambush BECAUSE you know that your opponent has an auspex and knows how to use it
I said that it was highly unlikely, not that they can never be ambushed.
2014/01/13 22:57:37
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
BrotherHaraldus wrote: I said that it was highly unlikely, not that they can never be ambushed.
The assertion that Space Marines are unlikely to be ambushed is amusing considering how many times Space Marines have been ambushed.
In BL fluff?
Seems entirely plausible to me. You'd only write stories about the toughest fights, the ambushes etc, because the bazillion untold stories of Marines doing their job as planned and completely walking over their target does not make for a selling novel.
YMMV, mind.
But yes, there's a lot of factors in it. What if the Stormtroopers have demo charges? What if the Marines have Storm Shields? What if...
Once you go what iffing, it's not much more to be said.
That's my two cents o/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 22:58:05
2014/01/13 23:00:38
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
I mean, the description of how he crushes the neck of a Ravener with his 'monstrous biceps' makes even me raise an eyebrow, and I am kind of hardened to these things.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/14 22:45:26
2014/01/15 21:18:24
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
Wyzilla wrote: Terminators have Cyclone Missiles and heavy flamers
And then nobody cared because those really aren't going to do much of anything to the front armor of an LRBT before it wrecks the terminator. Especially not the heavy flamer, lol. Even firing krak missiles, they'd still not get any penetrating hits.
Meanwhile the LRBT is shredding the terminator to bits with heavy bolters, a lascannon, and a battle cannon.
Wait what, are you taking game mechanics as canon or not?
If not, then you should remember that an 'elite' SoB is as skilled in close combat as an average Guardsman.
Oh, and an unarmoured Captain can eat two direct hits from an Executioner Plasma Cannon without impairing his fighting ability.
An unarmoured Canoness survives three times as much firepower as an unarmoured Celestian.
A Kustom Force field stops exactly 1/3rd of all incoming attacks, except Markerlights that temporarily allows shots to smash through it.
Lelith Hesperax is better at aiming than a Vindicare Assassin, despite not really having or using ranged weapons whatsoever. (It's dubious that she even has used one at all.)
The moments after an Ork boyz mob has reached it, they can destroy a Leman Russ, but after these moments it is impervious to their attacks.
No matter how much they want to, no single unit in the 41st Millennium can throw more than a single grenade at a time, and waiting a bit before throwing the next.
Game mechanics, yo.
Oh, and the LR has a vision slit. A heavy flamer in there would actually be rather nasty, if you use logic. (Double standards again, Melissia? Only using logic for your own preferred faction/s?)
Oh, and the interpretation thing is not a 'final defense'. It's not like you can argue against interpretations, since I assume you have taken the available fluff into consideration already (Just like I have for mine) and I doubt you'd change your interpretation based on what mine is.
Besides, if you want to complain on SM being power fantasies, check the link I gave at the top of the page. You should put blame where it's due, not only the parts where it is due and serve your purposes. Even if perhaps that Snake Brotherhood thing might be a tad too much, as I said.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And this is why I said I'd rather not start this whole thing again. It just becomes a clusterfeth without any results.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/15 22:46:47
2014/01/15 22:57:30
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Bobthehero wrote: They're a good indicator of how things are played out, TT stats, that is.
We know a Hellgun will punch through Power armor and anything else under it. But it will struggle agaisnt Termi, same for most AP 3 stuff.
We know Sisters don't have special CC training, although they're probably WS 3.8, like Stormtroopers and IG vets.
We know a KFF can block most weapons, some times.
Etc
But...
That is just interpreting everything in your preferred unit/s' and/or faction/s' favour.
Not that that is wrong, but at least say so.
I mean, if a ST is WS 3.8, what stops a Mahreen from having T4.99 and W1.99?
Automatically Appended Next Post: But yeah, the 'X vs X' debate is done now, I think. I'll just leave this here and move on. o/
Yeah, the Marines are the posterboys, given most fluff, most codices, most novels, are the most played faction, are literally stated as 'The core of 40K' on page 151 in the latest WD... But that is okay. I feel that some more attention could be given to other races... But that is enough. The status quo is not that bad, fluffwise (Though gamewise, that's another matter. /tyranidcodex )
Shhh.
No tears. Only dreams now. Unrustle your jimmies.
/tiphat
/turnandleave
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/15 23:06:58
2014/01/17 15:59:17
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Melissia wrote: A rhino is an exceptionally light vehicle, so that's really not comparable.
I poked around Lexicanum a bit, and it does indeed say that a Rhino weighs half as much as a Leman Russ (At least if we are taking the profiles in Imperial Armour volume 2 as our cue).
Void_Dragon's scenario is not implausible.
2014/01/17 18:22:22
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Again according to Imperial Armour, the Rhino is twice or more as fast as a LR.
Offroad/Onroad max speed is 55/70 kph for Rhino and 21/35 for Leman Russ.
On road, the impact would be equal.
Off road, the Rhino would actually have a greater impact, adding plausibility to the theory of a Termie being able to move a LR in an exceptionally rude manner.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/01/17 21:04:36
2014/01/17 22:42:56
Subject: Inquisitorial Stormtrooper compared to Space Marine
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Terminator Armour is heavy-gauge ceramite plasteel composite plates, mounted on an adamantium exoskeleton.
Most Rhinos are constructed of a bonded Ceramite layer over a cast Plasteel hull, although others use composite carbon compounds or a conventional hardened steel, depending on their origins.
