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I'm posting this more because I want your take on it. I firmly believe SC is a direct ripoff of 40k. I am a fan of both, leaning 40k but still. I even remember reading at one point that Blizzard approached GW in its insipient production phases of SC about ip rights and possible infringement lawsuits but they got the go ahead. I cannot however verify that now, so grain of salt and what-not. So what do we think? It seems GW has modeled some units directly after Starcraft units, but maybe Blizzard lets it slide because, well they modeled their game after the 40k verse. These are just some of the thoughts bouncing around in my head, so what do we think?

Starcraft was meant to be a 40k RTS before GW pulled the plug. What's more, before starcraft, Blizzard was in licence talks with GW for what we know as warcraft to be liscened from warhammer fantasy. Apperantly GW is bad to partner with so the story goes.

The real stealing was the amount of stuff stolen from Dune in the 80's when GW was creating the 40k background.

Never played the game nor seen it played nor seen the cover of this game. Can someone please explain to me the gist of the IP stolen? Just interested.

Well, WoW was supposed to be a Warhammer game at first, and the whole Warcraft universe is strongly based on Warhammer,
so I can very well imagine Starcraft being a 40k ripoff as well.

Not a stolen IP, and hardly an elephant in the room haha.

Stupid GW. They are so wishy washy. How many millions have they thrown out the door in these ventures. And now they are starting a new mmo title, within a year of scrapping one and shutting down the other? Must be something in the tea.

Both games contain humans in power armour fighting against ancient advanced psychics and all-consuming bug people.

That's about it.

The similarities were closer when both Space Marines and Terran Marines were reprogrammed murderers and rapists, but Space Marines got changed.

So it's borrowed IP? And to say "it's power armor space guys fighting bug monsters, so what". That's kind of a big deal. It's not a cop show where cops do cop stuff. It's a very particular universe. Space marines, bug monsters, advanced alien race. It's become a genre but, it is kind of GW's genre, I mean starship troopers was written in the fifties but, meh. You could make the starwars comparison but I don't buy that. The similarities are to few and the universes of both are immense.

Steal is such a strong and harsh word.

Did GW "steal" the notion of a robotic war with humans that made humans fearful of AI from Frank Herbert?

Did GW "steal" death machines bent on human (organic) destruction from the Terminators?

Did GW "steal" elves from fantasy in general and put them in space?

Did GW "steal" ideas of vampires, werewolves, and angels (light and dark) from other sources?

You can't really work in sci-fi or fantasy without taking inspiration from those that have good before. So no Blizzard did not "steal" from GW but they did take inspiration from them and GW did the same as well from Blizzard.


Also there is no elephant in the room the similarity and history has been known for quite some time

A large part of 40k is the Warp, Chaos, and the God Emperor, none of
which is present in Star Craft or a lot of other fiction involving power
armour and bugs.

The 'power armoured humans vs. insects' is certainly not the GW genre either.

I mean starship troopers was written in the fifties but, meh.

Exactly. Starship Troopers was written in the fifties long before GW.

You could make the starwars comparison but I don't buy that.

What Star Wars comparison? Star Wars is samurai in space, Good versus Evil.
It's a great example of the Hero's Journey story. It has virtually nothing in common
with 40k.

Ok the one argument you have that seems relevant is about Necrons and Terminator. And yes they probably stole that. The AI bit, that's just fluff and is a broad genre even when 40k was invented it was an established genre. Elves? Public domain. Along with the vampires and werewolves and angels. You can't steal those ideas any more than you can steal the idea of flight, or walking, or eating. They are just there.

So yes they stole something (obviously I might add, look at a Necron then look at a T-100. Duh.) but that's not the point. I didn't ask if GW stole something. That's like telling my kids life isn't fair when one gets something the other doesn't. Im asking if Starcraft is an IP infringement, which it looks like it is, but permission was given, so not really.

I agree, Starcraft is not IP infringement.

However, I don't think you should go thinking that GW 'stole' their ideas, or that others have 'stolen' their ideas from GW. What we are seeing here is a common thread of inspiration being drawn upon by various artists to create these works.

^^ The only reason I mentioned Star Wars is because I'm sure somebody would but you are right. There is NO similarity.

When talking about Starship Troopers, I feel like they took an idea. They just said hey, armored space marines and bugs fighting. People will love that gak. And they brought it to life.

Whereas I feel like Blizzard took more then an idea. They modeled their marines after GWs. Same with Zerg and Nids. Then again with eldar and protoss. Granted there are visual differences in the latter but still very similar in many ways some of them still visual.

But it seems like GW may be the only ones that can really be blamed.

I don't buy it. Power armoured dudes fighting space bugs is hardly such a unique thing to 40k so as to say 'oi blizzard, that stuffs ours.'

They're both loaded with generic fantasy and sci if tropes. Or even tools. Tanks. Transports. Aircraft. Yeah... Shrug.

All you can say is they both have some similar-ish stuff. Neither rips off the other though. Calgar and raynor won't be ducking it out any tine soon.

Imnewherewheresthebathroom wrote:


Whereas I feel like Blizzard took more then an idea. They modeled their marines after GWs. Same with Zerg and Nids. Then again with eldar and protoss. Granted there are visual differences in the latter but still very similar in many ways some of them still visual.

Bugs in space is hardly a gw thing mate. Eldar and Protoss are quite different. I get very little 'elf in space' from tassadar and his mates. I don't see aspect warriors. Or the infinity circuit. Beyond psyonics, there is very little crossover. And 'wielders of magic' again is such a generic concept that you can't call it a rip off if a gw ip. All you can say is that it's blizzards on a common idea. Just as eldar are gw's take on wielders of magic.

Gw are known for having a kitchen sink setting. A lot of their things in all their ip's are based off of fairly generic concepts that predate them. Other companies can do 'ratmen', 'beastmen', power armoured super soldiers, or weird stuff that mutates things without them being rip offs of gw stuff. As above, gw have no control over these generic ideas, if anything, as above, it's two companies having slightly different takes on common and universal ideas.

It seems only the people falling in the "no" category are posting. The poll contradicts the general climate here.

Necrons are not ripped off the terminators.

Simply because Terminator isn't an original idea.

The Terminator robots going mad and attacking their creators is simply the old "necromancer raises zombies and loses control" plot recycled IN SPACE.

No. It's more of a case of GW being stupid and failing to make a brilliant business decision.

Also, GW isn't innocent themselves, with W40K and WHF being a fusion of various sources, IIRC, even the appearance of Tau Firewarriors was directly ripped from some old Sci FI I can't remember the name of.

Warhammer 40K, and Fantasy for that matter, are not very big outside of select circles; most of my non-gaming friends (even the nerdy ones) have never heard of either.

People need to stop equating "Science Fiction" with "Warhammer". There is A LOT of futuristic and medieval fantasy out there, many of which use common themes that also happen to exist in GW games.

In short, this game isn't as big a deal as you think it is.

It is impossible to steal something that is given freely.

Clearly Blizzard and GW at one point were working on a project together. At some point GW went left and Blizzard went right. If there was any problem it was at that intersection and not the decades since.

At this time, each is their own brand with their own identity. No matter how similar they may look, I think at this point its impossible to say one was stolen from the other.

This really isn't meant to be a chicken or the egg argument. I'm much less concerned if GW stole ideas (as I'm sure they did). It's about Starcraft being a blatant ripoff.

The whole terminator/necromancer thing, I don't know seems awful broad. I mean the necron warrior IS a T100.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I can't find any information saying there was a collaboration. Only information saying there WASN'T a collaboration, and this is/was a rumor. But I do remember reading that GW was approached by blizzard concerned there would be infringement. If that is true then permission was given, that doesn't change the fact that, if true, SC was in fact a rip of 40k. Enough so for Blizzard to ask permission.

The Necron Warrior is not a T100.

The T100 had human proportions and a jaw.

The original Necron Warrior had elongated legs. Its head was set directly into the front of its torso. It had broad shoulder blades that rose over its shoulders to become a carapace. Its mouth was a fixed grille.

The newer Necron Warrior has a slight neck, but it still points forwards from the shoulders rather than up. The carapace has shrunk but is still present. The amulet has been melded into the breastbone, though. It still, however, has proportionally elongated legs and arms compared to a human skeleton or a Terminator.

Blizzard was given permission, so its all good from Blizzard's perspective. Blizzard probably didn't need to get permission, but having it certainly doesn't hurt. It keeps them safer from GW. Just because Blizzard asked for permission doesn't mean they had too. They probably asked for permission so later on down the road GW couldn't come back and sue them over something like 'power armoured humans'. It of course wont stop GW, but the permission slip is a powerful weapon for Blizzard.

I have to wonder, how do you think GW feels about the success of Star Craft now? If they had any inkling about how successful Star Craft would become they probably would have never given permission. This is all of course assuming there was ever any kind of communication between Blizzard and GW. I personally haven't done any research on the topic, and wouldn't be surprised to find out its all hearsay.

Ok please site your sources if your going to make absolute statements.

Back to the Necron/t100

Come on.

I don't recall any Necrons travelling back in time to kill the Emperor's mother. That's really the key difference. The plots that these imaginary constructs take part in are completely different. Otherwise we might as well say that both the Terminator artists and GW ripped off humanoid forms and bipedal motion.

I'm not going to say 'stolen' per se, since the sci-fi and fantasy creative landscape is a post-apocalyptic warzone where everyone steals from everyone else, and there's nothing more egregious going on there than anywhere else.

That being said, I can't think of a single original concept Blizzard has ever done.

The movie Alien was released in 1979.
40k was released in 1987.
Starcraft started development in 1995.

Elves, dwarves, orks, space battles, fantasy battles, hobby wargaming, dashing heroes, vile and kind aliens, not to mention knights, space marines and German WWI forces also existed before either franchise got going.

40k fluff is as original as a teenagers pop-idol scrapbook.

Nope, Starship Troopers and Alien would be the main idea before GW had a go at it. I would say that Starship Troopers was more their muse.

1958 - It! The Terror from Beyond Space (inspiration for Alien)
1959 - Starship troopers was published.
1979 - Alien the book.
1979 - Alien the movie came out.
1986 - Aliens the movie.
1988 - Starship troopers Anime (OVA).
1990 - GW mentioned the Tyranid in "Space Crusade".
1993 - Alien3 the movie.
1993 - Started being published in supplements then codex.
1997 - Alien: Resurrection
1998 - Starship troopers the movie released.
1998 - StarCraft Brood War released.
1999 - "Roughnecks" CGI Tv series.
2000 - Starship Troopers: Terran Ascendancy game.
2001 - Codex Tyranids 3rd edition.
2004 - Starship troopers 2 - movie.
2005 - Codex Tyranids 4th edition.
2005 - Starship Troopers RPG.
2005 - Starship Troopers the miniature game.
2005 - Starship Troopers video game.
2007 - Trial Epic rules for Tyranid.
2008 - Starship troopers 3 - movie.
2010 - Codex Tyranids 5th edition.
2010 - StarCraft 2 Wings of Liberty.
2012 - StarCraft 2 Heart of the Swarm.

Make your own guess with the timeline shown above.

 Jimsolo wrote:

That being said, I can't think of a single original concept Blizzard has ever done.

If video games have proven anything its that you don't have to be original for anything that you do. You just have to be the best at it. And the money will come in droves.

Also as far as writing/plot/story/character archtype goes, there is no more original anything. All "new" concepts were used up hundreds of years ago. Its now nothing more than mix and match and recycle of a fitting theme.

All that being said, I think I'm going to paint my nids to look like Zerg.