Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm no veteran, but I played in 5th for years. I don't see what is broken, but i play Blood Angels and Tau. I admit my angels have been sitting out a lot, but its a completed army. I wanted to start a new army and it was either new army, or update. So whats up guys? Whats broken? I'm not trolling I honestly want to know. And please guys no long rants its hard to sort through rants for the point, and its easy to blow off a long rant as nerd rage. I would like to see the issue and why it isn't fair, objectively would be preferable.

Before I get yelled at about looking it up myself, I spent an hour trying to find a coherent explanation to no effect.

Thanks for your time.

Really no more broken than before (in many ways better thanks to standardized USRs and somewhat tightened rules wordings).

It's broken in the eyes of players that used to steamroll shooting armies with assault, I guess. Hull Points broke it for armies that relied on vehicles. Fliers when just about no one had AA. Allies gives some armies access to incredibly sick combos for players that don't want friends.

In my opinion its not broken as much as some things arent well thought out. Its only broken if you purposefully make "good use" of the flaws. If you dont do that you can play 6th edition swimmingly.

Interwebz hyperbole... unless its talking about screamer star or D weapons, then its correct

jk

sort of

The rules for Battle Brothers in Allies and double force org at 2000 points broke the game for me.

In part it's the rule changes (random charge ranges, overwatch, casualties taken from the front) which makes assault even worse than it was in 5th edition (and even then few people were relying on it) and makes shooting based armies even stronger (they ruled 5th edition already). Removing the ability to assault out of a transport, even stationary, unless it's open topped or an assault transport, made things even harder for armies with an assault bias.

Hull points did change the "invulnerable tank" syndrome where a tank could take glancing hits all day without any serious damage, but in giving them hull points so they take wounds like monstrous creatures they failed to give them the feature that actually makes monstrous creatures playable, an armour save. What's more not only can they die by losing their hull points, they can die to the first hit if it's a penetrating 6 so vehicles are significantly weaker than monstrous creatures. That's a fact the codex writers have acknowledged indirectly by making the stronger units like Riptides and Wraithknights monstrous creatures, not vehicles.

Fliers were introduced to a game when no armies had the means to deal with them. Then the Codex writers managed to find themselves unable to write in balanced fliers. The Heldrake (post-FAQ) is unnecessarily strong and probably more than any other one unit forced units back into their tin boxes when at the start of 6th we thought that this would be the age of infantry.

Allies weren't a bad idea, in principle, but the relationships that they put into the tables often didn't seem to make any sense at all. It also allowed people to exploit the strengths of two armies to cover the other's limitations. It's not for nothing that for most loyalist armies the correct answer to the question, "what allies should I take?" is "Imperial Guard." It also lead to abominations like a Seer council led by a Dark Eldar Archon with shadow field, so the fortuned unit could be led by a character with a re-rollable 2+ invulnerable save.

In addition to the rules changes the frustration has been with Codex writers who don't seem to be able to build a balanced book. We've always had a situation were one or two armies were clearly better than the others (7th Edition Fantasy Deamons, 5th Edition Grey Knights WARD!) but the impression with the changeover was that GW were trying harder to find some external and internal balance in Codexes.

As it stands one of the best armies in 6th is Necrons, who seem to have been built by a writer who knew what would be going into the 6th edition rulebook (WARD!). In a meta where fliers are king, they have a lot of fliers. In a meta where glancing hits kill vehicles they can generate a lot of glancing hits. In a meta where you need 6s to hit on overwatch they have tesla weapons that give you double hits when you roll a 6 to hit. They can also turn out a lot of shots for dealing with infantry.

Tau went from one of the weakest armies to one of the strongest by giving them sufficient special rules that their supposed weakness (assault) is never in play because they simply shoot to death any unit that looks even remotely threatening. They even get a rule where their buddies can pump shots into an assaulting unit. However as Tau players have noted they no longer play as the "mobile firepower army" that they used to operate as, but as a gunline army to out guard Imperial Guard. Any tactic that an opponent can use to get their units close enough to the Tau player that they pose a threat? The tau have an answer for it.

Eldar are also a top tier army now, with Wave Serpent spam being one of their stronger builds. The biggest shock though is how well Tau and Eldar work together, the Taudar are one of those armies where the sum is greater than the total of the two parts. Any weakness one might have, the other surely compensates for.

To run any of those combinations, Tau, Eldar, Taudar you have to deliberately limit yourself if you want your opponent to enjoy their game.

Balanced against that is the Chaos Codex, a wasted opportunity where Heldrake spam is really the only competitive build and people who want to play Chaos Legions feel shafted, Codex Dark Angels which (although I like it) feels like an army that would have been nice to play in 5th edition, and Codex Space Marines which is a really nice army, but does have poor internal balance (White Scar bikes are clearly better than every other option) and is not a match for the kings of the game.

GW don't even seem able to balance new units within the game they created. Some are impressively strong, others extremely weak, and there doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason for either situation. Things like Escalation have brought super-heavy tanks into regular games of 40k, without the balancing ability of Apocalypse specific rules.

imo, it is not really broken. It is a very solid game system. The only real problems are that some of the rules are written in a very ambiguous way and the balance in some codices is horrible.

If anyone screams that it is broken, they are clearly overreacting.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The only real problems are that some of the rules are written in a very ambiguous way and the balance in some codices is horrible.

So the core rules are bad, and the army rules are bad. How exactly is that not broken?

Well according to the internet, all sorts of things are broken. I'd been playing Baldur's Gate for 12 years, but it's only when i looked on the forum that I realised that the game was "broken" and "unplayable". Similarly Europa Universalis is, apparently, broken, despite being a hugely successful game.

But no, there is no grandioise logical argument about why 40k is broken or anything. There are flaws yes, but it's up to you whether or not you think that makes it "broken".

 Peregrine wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The only real problems are that some of the rules are written in a very ambiguous way and the balance in some codices is horrible.

So the core rules are bad, and the army rules are bad. How exactly is that not broken?

Haven't you learned by now? You can make your own rules to fill in those gaps. Because we all know a well written ruleset requires 2 hours of pre-game negotiation, and remembering to discuss every possible rules scenario to come to an amicable solution before the game even starts. Who cares how your opponents day went when you have rules to make up.

I think it strongly depends on what scale and how strict rulewise you play.

I play with a buddy of mine small games in the 500-1200 pts range. We agree on some special goal or just plain slaughter just for the fun of it, play the units we find most fun at the given moment with a rather loose reference to the FOC and have tons of fun. 6th ed just means that we have to conduct assaults somewhat different, but really, thats just a question of how long you stay in cover before you charge.

If you want to play large competitive championships - well, good luck.

The game is obviously broken from a harshly competitive perspective. But that's not really unique about 6th edition.

Nonetheless, most players don't want to play with only riptides/heldrakes/vendettas, or exploit allies or double FOC. So in the end for most players, 40K ends up being a fun game anyways It's not unplayable in any way, it's just that if you played only to win, then most of all units and some entire armies would never see action. I think the comments about 40K being unplayable is just an overreaction to the failure of GW to do that little extra balance work in their codices.

Really, I would love to see a community balance project for 40K, with a set of "unofficial canon" codices for all existing armies, being identical to the current ones save for points costs.

40k won't feel too broken if its the only game you know. Once you've played other games, many of the issues start to pop out more. Even without playing other games, certain things must make you scratch your head about the game.

Why is the internal balance of each codex so poor? Even the most casual player will look at Ratlings and Rough Riders wondering what to do with them, while the Vendetta is obviously a superior choice. Every codex has this problem with one or two units in ever slot being infinitely better than the rest. This hurts casual and competitive players alike.

Why is the external balance between codices so poor? Why are Tau and Eldar significantly better than C:CSM or C: DA? Again, even the most casual player will take issue with this, as everyone wants at least a chance at winning or doing something other than remove models.

Why are there so many redundant, overlapping, or useless rules/USRs? Marines basically ignore most of the leadership/morale part of the game and invalidate several other USRs. If marines were a single codex, it wouldn't be an issue, but representing almost half the game is where it becomes problematic. Why are there so many rules for different movement types, or slightly different abilities to wound things better, or slightly different ways to hit something. I mean, why have preferred enemy, furious charge, rage, and hatred? These all functionally fill the same role that could very easily be rolled into a single rule that was a blend of all them.

Basically, the rules are bloated, the balance is off, and they charge you a fortune on top of it. Go play other games to truly see the difference between a smooth, complex, and tactical game, and then come back to see what a complicated, messy, and untactical a game 40k is.

Its not broken. Ignore these a-holes on the interwebs who cry everytime GW does anything. What release a codex? It either sucks or its OP! What flyers? OMG the game is ruined!! Assault is nerfed? OMG the game is ruined!!
3 things are broken that's it....
1. D Weapons
2. JetSeer/star/council whatever
3. Screamerstar

This game is so far from freaking broken. I played a lot of 2nd. Now holy smokes wanna talk about WTF all day everyday. Its a good game it really is. That's why its more popular then it has been in years. Sadly the 5% of jackwagons cry incessantly online make the rest of the 40k world think something is wrong. F THOSE PEOPLE. I have a spine so if something is broken I got no problem saying "Hey I ain't playing against that its crap". I just find another game. For those who cry non stop please sell your army to me at a highly discounted rate and go play Warma/Hordes. The grass is always greener right.

The core rules and dexes dont really work and have some holes that break the game (like the relic and some warriors hopping in a NS) which really has made me stop buying 40k, now I've moved onto buying things for other games (voting with my wallet I guess) but I will still play the occasional games at a tourney or something

Spetulhu wrote:

It's broken in the eyes of players that used to steamroll shooting armies with assault, I guess.

It's nothing to do with steamrollering, it's about it being a valid tactic at all.

Given that the setting of the game and the fluff all indicate that in the far future, melee weapons still have a place in wars (let's be fair, this is a bit odd, but in sci-fi, not unheard of. The most iconic weapon in any sci-fi series ever is a hand-to-hand weapon), it should be expected that such units have a place in the game.

That said, you have to envision how these melee weapons that everyone is hauling around would get into combat in the far future... And we can do that by looking at prior editions.

1) Herd mentality. If there are more of you than the opponent has bullets, then you'll get into combat! This is the approach taken by orks, and tyranids (and Zulus, who pioneered the tactic in the 1890s).

Why 6th ed is broken: Taking casualties from the front means that your guys have to take many more turns of shooting than they did in prior editions. Last weekend, I was playing a for-fun game against a necron opponent. We used a table with a lot of terrain, so I usually had a cover save. His army wasn't really focused, some warriors, some immortals, one ann. barge, some deathmarks. I was running mostly green tide. I never made it to combat (I did get to declare a charge, at 9" away, on my waaagh turn, so my guys were fleet, but overwatched killed the lead guys, so I needed an 11 and didn't get it.)

That's an unfocused, non-tournament necron list, not an optimized Tau-dar list, by the way.

Cover saves are worse, random charges make failed charges more likely, and overwatch may not kill a lot of models, but it increases the distance needed. Plus, the most common infantry weapons in the game can now shoot at full effect even as their wielders fall back away from the skirmish, further increasing the effective distance you need to travel to get into a fight.

So, herd mentality assualt armies are broken.


2) Spaceships! So, you're an alien and you're not all that tough, but you have shiny energy swords and a desire to use them. And you also have the fastest spaceships in the galaxy. Seems like you should be able to make this work. In 3rd, you could zoom up and assault out, and that was probably too good. In 4th/5th, you had to get out of the ship before it moved and then charge, and so there was some risk that your spaceship would get shot, but it was doable.

Now... your guys have to get out of the spaceship and sit in the open (close enough to charge the following turn), and let them shoot you for a turn. This really works well for the not-so-tough aliens, and it's no surprise that these models sit on the shelf.

So spaceship assault armies are broken.

3) Bein' sneaky...

So, you can't run across the field screaming like a bunch of lunatics, and you can't zoom across the field in your luxury hovercraft, so maybe the answer is to sneak up on your enemy. In 5th (and prior) versions, there were a bunch of units that could make sneak attacks, whether these were models that had outflanked the opponent, arrived by special deployment, scouted ahead of the main force, or infiltrated into advanced positions, they all had an opportunity to launch an attack without being shot to bits.

None of these methods were without risk. Outflanking could put you on the wrong side of the table, scouting and infiltration were subject to initiative stealing, or even just not going first. But you had the chance.

But now, in 6th, it's considered sporting to give your opponent two opportunities to shoot you before you engage in hand-to-hand combat (one shooting phase, and one overwatch phase). Doesn't matter how your guys got into position, they have to sit there for a turn and get shot. You cannot assault going first if you infiltrate or scout, and overwatch and specially-deployed models can't assault arriving from reserve.

So, being a sneaky ninja isn't an option either.

...

That pretty much leaves one avenue to assault - being so tough that your opponent cannot shoot you to death. And so we see armies with FMC spam (especially with Iron Arm), and re-rollable 2++ saves. Hey, assault is still viable (if you happen to play one of the armies that can do that). Well, that's great if you play... chaos daemons or eldars.

Otherwise, the game is broken because the background and the fluff establish a universe setting where CC is not only possible, it's prevalent, and the game doesn't reflect that universe.

 lobbywatson wrote:
Its not broken. Ignore these a-holes on the interwebs who cry everytime GW does anything. What release a codex? It either sucks or its OP! What flyers? OMG the game is ruined!! Assault is nerfed? OMG the game is ruined!!
3 things are broken that's it....
1. D Weapons
2. JetSeer/star/council whatever
3. Screamerstar

This game is so far from freaking broken. I played a lot of 2nd. Now holy smokes wanna talk about WTF all day everyday. Its a good game it really is. That's why its more popular then it has been in years. Sadly the 5% of jackwagons cry incessantly online make the rest of the 40k world think something is wrong. F THOSE PEOPLE. I have a spine so if something is broken I got no problem saying "Hey I ain't playing against that its crap". I just find another game. For those who cry non stop please sell your army to me at a highly discounted rate and go play Warma/Hordes. The grass is always greener right.

F

Wave Serpents aren't broken? Okay, then. You just lost all credibility. What limited credibility you had the way your post started.

The main thing that added instability was the allies matrix. It adds plenty of fluffy options, but at the end of the day too many players simply take the most powerful combinations.

The biggest problem with 6th ed here was that many people played in 5th , because it was possible to get an army relativly cheap and most of those armies became unplayable in 6th. And a lot of those new people don't understand why GW made their good and cheap armies bad and that they now have to spend anywhere from 2 or 3 times more cash to play in 6th and even then the faction they picked will be bottom tier.
Only people that were happy in 6th were demon WFB players , old eldar vets that had to buy only the WK and old tau vets . We had 0 new eldar players and only 1 new tau player , since the codex came out.

 lobbywatson wrote:
Its not broken. Ignore these a-holes on the interwebs who cry everytime GW does anything. What release a codex? It either sucks or its OP! What flyers? OMG the game is ruined!! Assault is nerfed? OMG the game is ruined!!
3 things are broken that's it....
1. D Weapons
2. JetSeer/star/council whatever
3. Screamerstar

This game is so far from freaking broken. I played a lot of 2nd. Now holy smokes wanna talk about WTF all day everyday. Its a good game it really is. That's why its more popular then it has been in years. Sadly the 5% of jackwagons cry incessantly online make the rest of the 40k world think something is wrong. F THOSE PEOPLE. I have a spine so if something is broken I got no problem saying "Hey I ain't playing against that its crap". I just find another game. For those who cry non stop please sell your army to me at a highly discounted rate and go play Warma/Hordes. The grass is always greener right.

So, you come into a thread and call everyone who disagrees with you an donkey-cave? Good start. I like the way you stuck to your guns and continued to throw around insults everywhere to anyone who might possibly think opposite to you.

Anyways, do you have something intelligent to add about how the game is either broken or not? Insulting people isn't making a point, and you haven't actually made one in your post.

So maybe you could write a post not filled with generalizations, insults, and hyperbole.

xruslanx wrote:Well according to the internet, all sorts of things are broken. I'd been playing Baldur's Gate for 12 years, but it's only when i looked on the forum that I realised that the game was "broken" and "unplayable". Similarly Europa Universalis is, apparently, broken, despite being a hugely successful game.

This is a poor argument. A game’s success is irrelevant. Successful games can be broken. I loved the original Morrowind (Eldar Scrolls3) and Oblivion, and have played the original Starcraft (single player only) since I was a kid in the 90s. all hugely successful games. All utterly broken.

xruslanx wrote:
But no, there is no grandioise logical argument about why 40k is broken or anything. There are flaws yes, but it's up to you whether or not you think that makes it "broken".

The fact that flaws exist indicate the potential for broken areas, as a matter of principle.
There are plenty logical arguments as to why 40k is a broken game. I’ll trust you not to listen to any of them though. Just waiting for the “sex with animals” and “fun cant be defined” “arguments”.
The fact remains 40k is hugely imbalanced internally and externally, and suffers from a huge amount of dead weight, as well as bloated, ungainly, counter-intuitive, non-sensical and clunky rules design. That right there is “broken”.
As such, 40k is broken in the sense that (a) the balance of the game is all over the place, and (b) it’s loaded with frequently faulty, excessive, and/or easy to abuse rules mechanicms.
Add to this GWs attitude with poor, ill-fitting, vague, implied and loosely worded rules, with limited FAQ support, and negligible community support, and you’ve got a broken game.

lobbywatson wrote:Its not broken. Ignore these a-holes on the interwebs who cry everytime GW does anything. What release a codex? It either sucks or its OP! What flyers? OMG the game is ruined!! Assault is nerfed? OMG the game is ruined!!.

PP release new stuff and the sky doesn’t fall down. GW release new stuff, and you can use it, for sure. But its crude and clunky and could have been done better.
And thanks for the compliments. Real mature of you.

lobbywatson wrote:
This game is so far from freaking broken. I played a lot of 2nd. Now holy smokes wanna talk about WTF all day everyday. Its a good game it really is. That's why its more popular then it has been in years.

Compared to the mess that was 2nd ed 40k? That’s comparing bad to a bad mess. Of course things will look rosy in comparison.
Is it “more popular”? Every financial report suggests fairly flatlining profits married to price increases. Indicates fewer people are spending more. Matches what I’ve seen personally too. So yeah, I don’t see the game as being “more” popular. If anything, from my experience, it’s the opposite. Its games like warmachine, flames of war and, here in Scotland, dystopian wars that are picking up steam.

lobbywatson wrote:Sadly the 5% of jackwagons cry incessantly online make the rest of the 40k world think something is wrong. F THOSE PEOPLE. I have a spine so if something is broken I got no problem saying "Hey I ain't playing against that its crap". I just find another game. For those who cry non stop please sell your army to me at a highly discounted rate and go play Warma/Hordes. The grass is always greener right.

In other words “the game is not broken because I choose not to play against the broken stuff”. Yeah man, that really doesn’t work for me as an argument that 40k is not broken.

I've played since 3rd edition and I find the the core 6th edition rules to be the best so far.

The problem is just codex balance which varies so wildly. However, people have to remember it is all just part of the history. The unkillable flacons in 4th edition, the GK codex and IG leafblower lists in 5th, and now the Eldar/Tau lists in 6th. I'm sure 7th will have similar complaints.

I think, what really has changed, is how much the competitive environment encompasses the game now. Look at Torrent of Fire, arguably one of the coolest features of 40k gaming right now is that you can actually track who are top players in the world! That is a fundamental shift in a competitive environment. Just for the record I enjoy playing in tournaments and like that feel. However, when one codex or even unit overpowers everything else "balance" gets thrown out of wack and it seems like the sky is falling and GW has failed.

Well, they did, but like anything else it's just riding waves out patiently. I've played 40k for the better part of my adult life and each wave is just dealt with. Sometimes my armies are up, other times they are down.

tl;dr Keep calm and game on

Martel732 wrote:

 lobbywatson wrote:
Its not broken. Ignore these a-holes on the interwebs who cry everytime GW does anything. What release a codex? It either sucks or its OP! What flyers? OMG the game is ruined!! Assault is nerfed? OMG the game is ruined!!
3 things are broken that's it....
1. D Weapons
2. JetSeer/star/council whatever
3. Screamerstar

This game is so far from freaking broken. I played a lot of 2nd. Now holy smokes wanna talk about WTF all day everyday. Its a good game it really is. That's why its more popular then it has been in years. Sadly the 5% of jackwagons cry incessantly online make the rest of the 40k world think something is wrong. F THOSE PEOPLE. I have a spine so if something is broken I got no problem saying "Hey I ain't playing against that its crap". I just find another game. For those who cry non stop please sell your army to me at a highly discounted rate and go play Warma/Hordes. The grass is always greener right.

F

Wave Serpents aren't broken? Okay, then. You just lost all credibility. What limited credibility you had the way your post started.

No they aren't broken. Neither are Riptides or Heldrakes. Strong models? For sure. Broken? That's silliness. Every version of this game has had strong units. Its a fact of life. Get over it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:

 lobbywatson wrote:
Its not broken. Ignore these a-holes on the interwebs who cry everytime GW does anything. What release a codex? It either sucks or its OP! What flyers? OMG the game is ruined!! Assault is nerfed? OMG the game is ruined!!
3 things are broken that's it....
1. D Weapons
2. JetSeer/star/council whatever
3. Screamerstar

This game is so far from freaking broken. I played a lot of 2nd. Now holy smokes wanna talk about WTF all day everyday. Its a good game it really is. That's why its more popular then it has been in years. Sadly the 5% of jackwagons cry incessantly online make the rest of the 40k world think something is wrong. F THOSE PEOPLE. I have a spine so if something is broken I got no problem saying "Hey I ain't playing against that its crap". I just find another game. For those who cry non stop please sell your army to me at a highly discounted rate and go play Warma/Hordes. The grass is always greener right.

So, you come into a thread and call everyone who disagrees with you an donkey-cave? Good start. I like the way you stuck to your guns and continued to throw around insults everywhere to anyone who might possibly think opposite to you.

Anyways, do you have something intelligent to add about how the game is either broken or not? Insulting people isn't making a point, and you haven't actually made one in your post.

So maybe you could write a post not filled with generalizations, insults, and hyperbole.

No I called the 5% who attempt to ruin the community. See my above statement.

I think that the core rules are fine (if a bit clunky), the real issue comes from the codecies...things like wave serpents and 2++ rerollable saves. The internet just enables the issues that do exist to be broadcast louder.

 lobbywatson wrote:


No I called the 5% who attempt to ruin the community. See my above statement.

Such a nice, clean number. Is it really 5%? What if its more? Less? We don't know, so lets not pretend otherwise beyond some anecdotal evidence.

Ruin the community? Again with the hyperbole. Who's ruining it? How? People ask a question, and get answers. You may not like the answers, but that doesn't mean they're 'ruining the community'. Furthermore, what community? The 40k/GW one, or the greater wargaming community? If the latter, I'd say discussing the flaws of 40k is positive, as it would get people to consider other games and invest in companies that care about their customers.

Its fine that you like the game. But don't ever assume yours is the correct opinion and insult others for thinking differently. I can discuss objectively the flaws of 40k, but I will never tell someone their enjoyment of the game is wrong or that they are ruining the community.

To reference your statement above, "get over yourself". As far as I'm concerned, your attitude, demeanor and posting style are what ruins communities.

"No they aren't broken. "

You sir, are insane or incapable of the maths. Wave Serpents are beyond strong. They are every bit as broken as the things you listed in your post.

And I don't have to "get over it". I have lots of alternative things I could do with my time. Which is increasingly becoming the case. Games made by devs that at least half-way give a crap.

Imnewherewheresthebathroom wrote:
I'm no veteran, but I played in 5th for years. I don't see what is broken, but i play Blood Angels and Tau. I admit my angels have been sitting out a lot, but its a completed army. I wanted to start a new army and it was either new army, or update. So whats up guys? Whats broken? I'm not trolling I honestly want to know. And please guys no long rants its hard to sort through rants for the point, and its easy to blow off a long rant as nerd rage. I would like to see the issue and why it isn't fair, objectively would be preferable.

Before I get yelled at about looking it up myself, I spent an hour trying to find a coherent explanation to no effect.

Thanks for your time.

6E is a very confused ruleset. It has trouble deciding what it wants to be. It has rules appropriate to 10 model skirmish games in a game where it's entirely possible to see over 300 models on a board. It tries to hamfist strategic bombers, superheavy tanks, air superiority fighters, long range artillery, etc into close range battles with assault infantry and duels between irrelevant squad leaders, resulting in situations where point-blank use weapons can be brought to bear against units that should be flying several miles above the battlefield. We have tanks that are hilariously easy to kill and don't know what unit type they want to be.

There's a lot of "throw the kitchen sink in" with the current edition of 40k, where there's obvious indecision on the part of the writers and they just decided to throw everything in.

 Blacksails wrote:
Such a nice, clean number. Is it really 5%? What if its more? Less? We don't know, so lets not pretend otherwise beyond some anecdotal evidence.

Ruin the community? Again with the hyperbole. Who's ruining it? How? People ask a question, and get answers. You may not like the answers, but that doesn't mean they're 'ruining the community'. Furthermore, what community? The 40k/GW one, or the greater wargaming community? If the latter, I'd say discussing the flaws of 40k is positive, as it would get people to consider other games and invest in companies that care about their customers.

How'd I get to 5% you ask. Well that's easy. The world is 10% a-holes. Based off my experience in the 40k community I think its only 5%. I've meet so many awesome dudes and like 3 chicks. I think 5% is about spot on.
Wow you like hyperbole huh? That's the most I've seen that used in a conversation in a while partner. The 5% "ruining the community" and it is a community. The people I play with are my friends and we are a loose "group" of people. We share a similar love for a silly game. Sadly whiney babies on the internet have the loudest voices. I'm done with that nonsense. The hateful pricks I see all over the net aren't "asking questions" they are spewing hate. Go look at the other threads on nids it'll prove my point. This GW doesn't care about me crap makes me insane. Of course they don't. They have stockholders hence they cannot. Honda doesn't care about me. Nokia doesn't care about me. AT&T doesn't care about me. Guess what. I'm a grown man and I'm ok with it. I "got over it". Anybody that thinks companies "care" about them needs to leave their bubble. Life is hard get over it.
My parting shot will be as follows. As a veteran of the United States Marine Corps we have 2 sayings.
1. Improvise, adapt and overcome.
2. Here's a straw. Now how bout you go suck it up.

You are such a nice person to have on these boards. I like that you threw in the whole "I'm a US vet" as if it meant something in this conversation.

Clearly you aren't worth talking to any longer as you refuse to discuss anything in a reasonable manner.

However, if you're done with the 'internet cry babies' and all the complaining, why are you here, on the internet, complaining?

*Edit* Your quote block is messed. You might be missing the /quote after my part. Please fix it as I'd rather not have my name attached to your posting.

if we use the term 'Broken' to mean , unable to perform the function the product is sold for.

Then 40k has a broken rule set.

As a rule set is defined as the instructions to play the game.

That means ANYONE should be able the read the rule set and FULLY comprehend how ALL elements of the game interact with each other.AND ALL agree on their understanding of the game rules.

YMDS forum sort of proves 40k has failed at the basic requirement of a rule set.

It has been stated by Jervis Johnson GW the function of PV and FoC in 40k to allow '...fun pick up and play games in a GW hobby store...'

This means ANY force that can be chosen from ANY Codex book should have a reasonable EQUAL chance of winning a game vs ANY other force chosen in the same way up to the same PV.

In this respect the Codex books are 'Broken'.

This clearly shows by objective comparison between what GW are telling you their products SHOULD deliver.And what you actually get, the 40k rules and codex books are broken!

No opinion, JUST facts.