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I quite like 6th edition, apart from a few minor niggles I find that it works very well.

I think it is an improvement on previous editions, and too be honest I can't wait to see what 7th edition is like. (although my wallet will not be so keen.)

wrong thread

niv-mizzet wrote:
There are only a few spots that stand out as bad to me in the core rules:
-random assault range + overwatch + furious charge nerf + cover save nerf combo pack. Too much assault nerfing all at once here.

-lolrandom psychic powers. At least they recognize that random powers suck and librarians' point costs have been shaved significantly. (Mine still haven't. >:|)

-Hull points were set too low in half the vehicles.

-shooting at flyers and snap shots in general should've been -1 or -2 to BS, not auto BS1. Makes no sense that a vindicaire assassin is just as bad at shooting at a storm raven as a rank and file ork.

The only other thing wrong with 40k at the moment is the recent rash of OP xeno codices.

Assault Nerfs- I don't mind the random assault range, or overwatch. Though furious charge makes not sense. Would be nice if the USR allowed you to add the models str stat to its charge distance (with the +1S when they charge). Mark of Khorne giving a 7"-19" charge would be fun. The loss of sweeping into new assaults hurts too. At the very least, would force shooty armies to disperse more, which would help assault armies, at least a little.

Psychic Powers- BA codex might be okay even if its just a copy paste of the CSM into the BA units. Though it will remove HI... sad.

Hull Points- I'm fine with Hull Points as is. I just don't like how a 35 point rhino bought for a 200 point squad will give First Blood. Not sure what the fix is, wave serpants and night scythes are hard to reconcile removing them from first blood even though though they're DT's.

I agree, snap fire and overwatch as written benefit low BS armies over those that pay for a higher BS stat. Personally, I'd prefer that snap shots not reduce BS, but give the target a +2 to their cover save. Wouldn't help against template weapons. But getting a 5+ save in the open when charging low AP weapons would help buff assault while allowing armies that pay for BS an advantage over those who don't. Flyers may need to work differently, haven't thought too much about it.

There are only a couple other things that I'd add, first is that the game is often played with way too little LOS blocking terrain. If players and TO's rectify this, then a lot of the power of the Tau, Eldar, Taudar is reduced. 60" shots that ignore cover can efffetively turn most tables into a whiteboard. Not too fun.

Let the Grimoire only work on Daemon saves, not forewarning, and the Screamerstar is a lot easier to stomach. Make it so the DE and Eldar aren't such close friends, same with Tau and Eldar, and a lot of other things are fixed. Remove the 2k double FOC, replace it with 2/1/1/1 for every so many points over 1500, and you'd fix a lot more.

Give my Vanguard Vets back Heroic Intervention. Because I love that rule.

6ed isn't broken, it isn't the best rule set out there either.

I enjoy 6th Ed

I don't enjoy some of the more rcent combos/ units

Seer Council and Demons with 2++ re-rollable save - just wrong

Riptides and Wave Serpents are way way to good - especially in multiples. but I guess they sell well. If the Riptide had been 3+ armour might have heped and the wave serpent shield gun is just stupidly good - if it had been one use/short range would have been fairer...........

Badly written Ally Rules and combinations that go against the fluff rather than with it (despite the "narartive" game tag)

New Formations that just ignore the FOC

High WS is still rubbish when compared to high BS. Llyth can miss a Gretchin on a 1 or a 2 in close combat FFS, she should be hitting on 2+ with re-rolls - like high BS does

niv-mizzet wrote:
-shooting at flyers and snap shots in general should've been -1 or -2 to BS, not auto BS1. Makes no sense that a vindicaire assassin is just as bad at shooting at a storm raven as a rank and file ork.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. You aren't going to hit a flyer except by blind luck, and the orks put a lot more bullets in the air. The only problem with snap shots at flyers is that you should be limited to snap shots and you should have to re-roll all of your hits, and then re-roll them ten more times. This would accurately represent your chances of hitting an incoming fighter making a strafing run at 500mph a thousand feet above the battlefield.

 Peregrine wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
-shooting at flyers and snap shots in general should've been -1 or -2 to BS, not auto BS1. Makes no sense that a vindicaire assassin is just as bad at shooting at a storm raven as a rank and file ork.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. You aren't going to hit a flyer except by blind luck, and the orks put a lot more bullets in the air. The only problem with snap shots at flyers is that you should be limited to snap shots and you should have to re-roll all of your hits, and then re-roll them ten more times. This would accurately represent your chances of hitting an incoming fighter making a strafing run at 500mph a thousand feet above the battlefield.

Except that BS8-10 represent the type of shooters that can do that easily, whether through supernatural means (Avatar?), ungodly amounts of training (Vindicare) or technological assistance.

We're talking about a universe where an imperial guardsman, who by the fluff serve decades, have BS3, and Space Marines, with super-human senses and targetters on their guns linked to their nervous systems are BS4. Then consider the very small handful of models in the game that are BS9 or 10 - more than double our super-human Space Marine - I think that a god of war would be exactly the sort of individual who could hit an incoming fighter jet. Something about that whole godhood thing, you know...

As it stands now, an ork riding a motorcycle has a better chance of hitting an enemy aircraft than the best-trained marksman in the imperium. That just makes no sense to me.

Actually, they fixed a lot of what was broken before. the problem is that far too many WANTED the rules to be broken in order to exploit them and have now gotten mad over it.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Actually, they fixed a lot of what was broken before. the problem is that far too many WANTED the rules to be broken in order to exploit them and have now gotten mad over it.

Gw tend to change the game, rather than improve it. For every fix they add, they break something else. It's lasts been that way.

And I think you're being more than a but condescending, naive and a bit narrow minded when you imply the only people getting mad are those who wanted to break/exploit the game. Plenty other people have issues with it bud.

Naw wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Experiment 6222901 null wrote:6 572528 64]
This +1.
Last edition was THE Imperial edition and Xenos got to suck it, to the point that most were barely even playable. Now it's the other way around with long languishing Xenos players finally getting an update after 8-10+ years of watching Marines get all the toys.
I honestly get a good laugh out of the GK players especially, whining that Daemons are too good now and need to be nerfed so they can compete against them...

To be fair, 4E was largely dominated by Xenos, particularly Eldar, while Necrons and especially Tau were quite strong there too, it was really only the 4 years of 5E that was Imperial dominated.

Rogue Trader: No one
2E: Eldar, Eldar, Eldar
3E: CSM, Eldar
4E: Eldar, Tau
5E: SW, GK
6E: Eldar, Tau

..with Necrons there somewhere..

Yes, I can see why xenos players have been very unhappy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing more, not 6E related. You would think GW knew their own rules, but no.

Exhibit A: Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

I will be surprised if they ever fix that. Seeing how happy they were about its performance in WD, I doubt they even realize they were breaking the rules.

Should not take a year to get that one sorted out.

Revisionist history. Or at the very least, not telling the whole truth.

Regarding 3rd edition it should be noted that this is the longest running edition Games Workshop has had, but that Eldar did not really go out of whack until the Craftworld supplement was released in 2001.

4e Eldar codex might have dominated the last year of fourth edition, quite similar to how Necron codex absolutely destroyed the last year of fifth edition, but the first two year and a few months Eldar had to make do with 3rd edition codex - and really the only thing that was actually changed in a major way between those two codexes were the Wave Serpent. (Do you see the pattern here?)

5th edition was dominated by Blood Angels and Space Wolves, not Grey Knights. Grey Knights were a late addition and they only held the throne until people started figuring out how to abuse Necrons. Grey Knights may stand out because it was the, as far as I can tell, worst received and most ridiculed codex Games Workshop has ever released. Mostly due to their fluff on Sisters and the Power Armour For Power Armour monstrous creature.

The biggest insult, however, is that Imperial (marine) codexes are never really in a bad spot - until now that is - since they get all toys, all rules, and constant stream of highly compatible codexes. Playing Space Marines means you never have to experience the complete rock bottom dregs that Eldar had to endure during fifth or that Orks have had to endure some time now. However, it is incredibly satisfying to see the amount of whining from dedicated Space Marine players at the moment. Schadefreude could never have been higher, although it is ultimately a destructive kind of joy.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Actually, they fixed a lot of what was broken before. the problem is that far too many WANTED the rules to be broken in order to exploit them and have now gotten mad over it.

I think a lot more people are annoyed that the rules are still very easily exploited.

 carlos13th wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Actually, they fixed a lot of what was broken before. the problem is that far too many WANTED the rules to be broken in order to exploit them and have now gotten mad over it.

I think a lot more people are annoyed that the rules are still very easily exploited.

Yeah, this would be it.

Me and a friend field models because we "like" them and try to be reasonable on making those choices as competitive as possible to hopefully justify them.
That all falls apart with our other friend that I think fields models for the advantage he gains so zero fluff is considered and the various unholy alliances are made.

Basically with a little effort it is fairly easy to blow an army out of the water especially when you follow their blog of all the stuff they put together and are ready to field.

I am starting to get 3 armies in playable form and with allies figured out so the list tailoring does not work out so much.