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Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





Alright, so I've got the book on my desk and I'm trying to really cheese out an army here. Thoughts are appreciated.

1850pts Tyranids

HQ (460pts)
Flyrant w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -230pts
Flyrant w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -230pts

Troops (204pts)
11 Termagants w/ Fleshborers -44pts
10 Termagants w/ Fleshborers -40pts
10 Termagants w/ Fleshborers -40pts
10 Termagants w/ Fleshborers -40pts
10 Termagants w/ Fleshborers -40pts

Elites (250pts)
2 Zoanthrope w/ Mastery Level 2 -100pts
2 Zoanthrope w/ Mastery Level 2 -100pts
1 Zoanthrope w/ Mastery Level 2 -50pts

Fast Attack (465pts)
Hive Crone w/ Tentaclids -155pts
Hive Crone w/ Tentaclids -155pts
Hive Crone w/ Tentaclids -155pts

Heavy Support (470pts)
Carnifex w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -150pts
Carnifex w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -150pts
Exocrine w/ Bio-plasma Gun Thing -170pts

Total: 1849pts

Flyrants do what flyrants do, Crones go for vehicles/hit other flyers or even melta infantry. Termagants hug cover and score. Zoanthropes babysit foot guys and can fry stuff if/when they get in range. Dakkafexes put out 12 TL S6 shots to mow people down and kill AV10-12. The Exocrine puts out high-strength AP2 dakka--I'm debating dropping him for another Dakkafex.

It's spammy and unimaginative, but my goal is merely to find a competitive build for the new dex. I'd like to hear any and all recommendations as this is purely theory--the models I have/am willing to buy are inconsequential for the purposes of this discussion.

609th Kharkovian 2000pts
Deathwatch 2000pts
Sick Marines 1500pts
Spikey Marines 2000pts
 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Dont have Codex so - criticism is trying to be helpful but:

5 x 10/11 termy broods will be wiped off the obs so quickly.
Still t3 and 6+ ? with no synapse near them (since flyrants will be going forward?).
I'd wipe them in maybe 1-2 turns. Zoans synapsing them?
very limited range.

Triple crones, I dont know their rules but flyers are (still) over rated.

Double carni I always liked, no idea the exo rules.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





The idea with the termagants is that they'll congregate (in cover) near 1-2 objectives depending on the mission and how many troops the enemy is bringing. It's going to take at least 3 units firing on them a turn to wipe them by turn 2. Somehow I don't foresee people committing to wiping out the gants when there are all the MCs about.

Another thing is that in 50% of the missions the 'gants almost don't matter. Big Guns sees the Carnifexes and Exocrine get scoring and the Scouring makes the Crones scoring. Then one mission is all killing models (which, admittedly, the msu troop approach is still a liability, but not quite as much). One mission is 'capture the flag' and in only requires that one gant unit survive. The other mission only has one objective. It's only the d3+3 objective mission that I think I need to worry about scoring issues on.

The Zoanthropes are meant to babysit the gants and footslogging monsters--with 12" synapse between three squads I think they'll be able to do that alright. I really can't figure out a better synapse-provider other than the Tyrants (which, as you said, are too fast to maintain that synapse).

I think that Crones are the *best* option from Fast Attack. They're T5, W5 FMCs with 4+ armour--they'll go down fast, but there are 3 of them plus 2 Flyrants. They vector strike at S8, have a S6 AP4 teardrop teamplate, and carry 4 haywire missies (with 36" range). They'll do a number on enemy flyers, can melt infantry, and I think they can give 'nids some form of answer to heavier armour during the initial turns before the other monsters are in krumping range. If there was something better in FA I'd take it.

The Exocrine is BS3, T6, W5 with 3+ armour and a 24" gun that is fired as either a 5" S7 AP2 blast or an Assault 6, S7, AP2 weapon. If the Exocrine stands still then he becomes BS4. It's something to use against 2+ enemies and the S7 AP2 makes it better against vehicles than an S6 brainleech devourer...but I'm still not sure that it's worth the extra 20pts over the Dakkafex.






609th Kharkovian 2000pts
Deathwatch 2000pts
Sick Marines 1500pts
Spikey Marines 2000pts
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

Looks to me you are thinking in roughly the same way as me. I would consider a similar list.

I just ran the math on an imaginary battle report against my 1850 Ork battlewagon list:
WB: 3 MegaNobz (Troops, Skorcha-Kombi) - 135
BW 1: In a Battle Wagon (2 Big Shoota, Deff Rolla) - 120

WB: 1 Warboss (MA, AS, BP) - 120
Manz 2: + 3 MegaNobz (Troops, Skorcha-Kombi) - 135
BW 2: In a Battle Wagon (2 Big Shoota, Deff Rolla) - 120

Boyz 1: 19 Shoota Boyz(2 Big Shoota) + Nob (PK, BP) - 170
BW 3: In a Battle Wagon (2 Big Shoota, Deff Rolla) - 120

BM 1: Big Mek ('Eavy Armour, AS, BP, Burna, KFF) - 130
Boyz 2: 18 Shoota Boyz (1 Big Shoota) + Nob(naked) - 119
BW 4: In a Battle Wagon (2 Big Shoota, Deff Rolla) - 120

Boyz 3 19 Shoota Boyz(2 Big Shoota) + Nob (PK, BP) - 170

Aegis Defense line w/ Quad Gun - 100
10 Gretchin - 40
8 Lootas - 120
8 Lootas - 120

I feel like I take down your flyers(925 pts) at the cost of my lootas(240), My Battle Wagons (480) 10 Boyz (60), My Gretchin (40), and My Quad gun (100). Total (920 pts)
What is left beats me at range by a lot, but I dominate in Assault. I figure, neither of us is getting tabled. It is probably a Draw. With First blood being the deciding factor (and it could go either way)

If I had my imaginary batrep to do over again, I might Ignore the Flyers, and flat out across the board to get into assault sooner.

I really do think your list is pretty viable.
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller





With that many weak scoring units I would definitely consider a venomthrope brood if you can fit it. If you indeed do hug cover with them the whole time their survivability will go way up and you can probably cover atleast 2 units with it with proper placement. I realize you probably have considered this but you can drop the lone zoanthrope and and add a venom plus another gaunt to a squad.
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob






I wouldn't put that much faith in FMC, especially ones as delicate as Crones. Better to invest more heavily in other slots, in my opinion.

Not convinced that dakka-fexes are that great even with the points drop. That niche seems well-covered by the flyrants anyway. Exocrines, tyranofexes and biovores all look like solid alternatives.

A couple of devourers in each termagant brood gives them some ability to shoot effectively at a low cost.

   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





Southern Oregon

After reading the codex it looks like it's going to be fex spam, venomthropes, standard flyrants, 20+ gants. Maybe gargoyles, mawlocs. Some other form of synapse. Seems about right. Without lots of playtesting everything else seems way underwhelming.

Chaos: 6500pts
Imperium: 2500pts
Orks: 1000pts
AoS Chaos 3000pts


 
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Stafford

That lone Zoanthrope is just asking to give away first blood. I'd trade in one of the crones for a venomthrope brood personally.

=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DQ:80-S---G+MB-I+PW40K00#-D++A+/fWD-R++T(M)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======

"I just scoop up the whole unit in my hands and dump them in a pile roughly 6" forward. I don't even care."

- Lord_Blackfang on moving large units


 
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

I would agree you need a Venomthrope. All those FMC's are quite literally sitting duck first turn, but a well placed Venomthrope will help mitigate any alpha strike the enemy has. It's also not wise to make a list assuming there is ready cover available, especially for 5 separate units, so why not bring your own? If you don't want to lose a Zoan then swap the Exocrine for a Biovore brood (they are really good now) and use spare points on Venoms.

 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





I think you're troops are fine. My issues are your synapse is all out in the open. No where near enough Carnifexes for this point level. I would have ATLEAST one brood of 3 (hide a Prime in the unit for survivable Warlord and synapse), and if you want then 2 Exocrine or 2 Broods of 3 and an Exocrine or 3 broods of 3. It really is that simple for competitive Nids. Fill Heavy Support then look at other stuff.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





I've been distracted for a few days so I've not been giving the replies proper attention. Originally I had misunderstood the rules regarding shrouded and thought that only the models within 6" of Venomthropes would benefit--I was unaware those models passed it on to their units. This makes spreading around the cover saves much easier than I thought it would be and Venomthropes have since found their way into my list-building attempts. Also, I'm really loving the idea of a bare Aegis line placed far down the board to provide cover.

I've started favouring Spinefists over Fleshborers as they perform either just as well as, or slightly better than, the Fleshborers against most T6 and below targets (with the exception of T5, which I don't see much).

1850pts Tyranids

HQ (460pts)
Flyrant w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -230pts
Flyrant w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -230pts

Troops (383pts)
30 Termagants w/ Spinefists -120pts
17 Termagants w/ Spinefists -68
Tervigon w/ scoring -195pts

Elites (335pts)
3 Venomthropes w/ Shrouded -135pts
2 Zoanthrope w/ Mastery Level 2 -100pts
2 Zoanthropes w/ Mastery Level 2 -100pts

Fortifications (50pts)

Heavy Support (620pts)
2 Carnifexes each w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -300pts
Carnifex w/ 2x Brainleech Worms -150pts
Exocrine w/ Bio-plasma Gun Thing -170pts

Total: 1848pts

As much as I like the idea of 5 FMCs on the table I've come to believe that Hive Crones are too risky to put down on the table--certain builds are going to rip them apart easily. I've gone with a more blob approach with this one. Bear in mind the following tactical overview is a general battle plan. Against pods/scouting bikers/etc. deployment (especially concerning the ADL) will have to be changed around.

Venomthropes set up in the centre with the Tervigon and Exocrine (who will almost always need to advance a bit before breaking off for a good, covered firing position) right behind them and a Carnifex unit on each of its flanks. The termagant units then set up in front of the Venomthropes, each one taking one side of the blob (the Tervigon is guaranteed at least one spawning a game, and the new squad will be sent over to the side with the 17-bug termagant unit). The Zoanthropes, already having a 3+ invuln, don't desperately needed Shrouded and so a unit will flank each side of the blob to overlap with the Tervigon's synapse bubble. The Flyrants can vary their position based on the battlefield, but the 'standard' formation is to have them at the side of the blob where they are free to charge headlong, range ahead (while still staying in psychic-buffing range), or break off to attack opportune targets.

Finally the winning touch: An Aegis Defence Line (just the wall) that goes in front of the blob and placed far down the board. This will certainly cover the guants/Venomthropes and (using TLoS) would probably cover the Carnifexes as well. The Venomthropes are in front of the Tervigon, so the beastie will at least get a 3+ save. This means most of the army is sporting a 2+ Cover Save. Even with markerlights galore that's a lot of cover to have to negate. The only armies I can think of off the top of my head that can spam that much Ignores Cover (in a form that will easily hit you before you have any opportunity to hit it) is Eldar with Serpent Shields (which still have to deal with the MC's armour saves,,,and I think all that Wave Serpent shooting is wasted on guants) and pyromanical drop-podding Space Marines (particularly Salamanders), who are going to have a hard time bringing down the MCs with flamer weapons (and the non-flamer weapons will need to deal with the cover). Barrage weapons are concerning (particularly high-strength weapons that can be used to snipe the Venomthropes or ignore monster armour), but I'm pretty sure that the units at least get a 5+ Shrouded cover save...which is better than nothing. Helldrakes will be a problem.

Then the army (in my head it's reminiscent of the old Necron 'phalanx') advances up to the ADL nabbing nearby objectives with (typically the smaller) termagant units as they're passed--and hopefully the ADL is right on an objective too. From there the enemy is dakka'd and probably charged.

I'm fairly certain that good use of psychic powers is going to be critical--in particular Catalyst, which is going to add FNP to all those cover saves for more trollage. Onslaught would be very useful for the mad dash to the wall and Paroxysm is nifty for nerfing the effectiveness of return fire. The Horror looks good against some matchups for forcing snap-shots/keeping a squad in place, but a lot of armies (*cough*Marines*cough*) are still going to have a decent chance at shrugging off the effect even with the -2 ld. I'd only ever take Psychic Scream over Dominion on a Flyrant--and even then I'm not so sure I'd have many golden opportunities to use it where there's not something better to Vector Strike and/or shoot at.

The need for plenty of rolls on the psychic powers table coupled with the desire for plenty of synapse is what compelled me to take 2 units of Zoanthropes over 2 units of Venomthropes. I'd love people's opinions on my choice there, because I'm still conflicted about whether having the powers/synapse is better than having a larger/more durable Shrouded bubble.

Another idea I'm toying with is taking Spike Rifles on the gaunts seeing as the rest of the blob has 18" or longer ranges and it might help in situations where the army needs to dig in at the wall. I'm also unsure whether or not the termagant/tervigon approach is better than msu Venom Cannon Warrior-spam--they'll still get cover from the ADL and they're large enough to screen anything not flying, Furthermore they can be dropped on objectives without needing a babysitter and the Venom Cannon should still have targets. This means I'd take 2 Venomthrope units and have a ton of Synapse, but I'd lose a roll on the Psychic Table--also Warriors are relatively fragile for their points cost, being prone to Instant Death (and they seem like more tempting targets than the gaunts). Thoughts on this?

It's always good to have input! Thanks, Dakka!

609th Kharkovian 2000pts
Deathwatch 2000pts
Sick Marines 1500pts
Spikey Marines 2000pts
 
   
 
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