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2014/01/12 05:22:34
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
An argument could be made that the Marvel cinematic universe is the greatest achievement in film history. As a whole Disney/Marvel Studios has created a universe in film that when it has reached completion, will span well over a decade with 20+ films. Each film tying itself in with the other films with cameos and teasers for upcoming films, all of which seem to be pointing to an epic conclusion in The Avengers 3.
Not only does every film have us waiting in theaters for the end of the credits to catch a glimpse of something that might hint at the next film, but it also has us lining up at the doors beforehand. The Avengers alone have made over 1.5 billion dollars worldwide and the franchise as almost made 5 billion dollars. That makes it the third highest grossing franchise in history. This is even before movies like Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Doctor Strange and Guardians of the Galaxy have been released. In would be absurd to believe that at the end, the Marvel movie franchise will blow the franchise record out of the water by billions.
Something else has happened as a result of the success of the Marvel franchise. DC and the other companies that own other Marvel properties, such as X-Men and Spider-Man, have now been forced to make their movies in the same way. This means we will continue have movies that keep their actors and production value.
Of course no single movie in any of these franchises are as good as say Shawshank Redemption or The Maltese Falcon but, as a whole, nothing else compares to the depth and complexity in the making of these films. Or the financial success. This is of course is all my opinion but I am excited to see this franchise completed.
Chaos: 6500pts
Imperium: 2500pts
Orks: 1000pts
AoS Chaos 3000pts
2014/01/12 05:31:34
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
Im tentative, but right now, I have a feeling we are in a super hero bubble. And Im afraid It might collapse before the Avengers come.
I mean, Outside of Marvel Studios, Who has made a good Super Hero movie that isn't BatMan/X-men. All of them are trying to follow the shared continuity of Avengers, but fails.
While it is great, it might end up being an footmark in film history.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2014/01/12 07:07:41
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
LordofHats wrote: If this is the criteria for the greatest achievement in film history...
Oh. And the X-Men movies by Fox suck. A lot. Really. They're terrible.
Well... In my nerd-gasm over Guardians I somehow missed that. And I totally agree that the pre-marvel x-men movies sucked, but they got a lot better. Though I still think the marvel movies will out gross the bond movies by a lot.
Chaos: 6500pts
Imperium: 2500pts
Orks: 1000pts
AoS Chaos 3000pts
2014/01/12 07:35:05
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
The films have nice effects...but what else? Nothing of substance. They are cute and funny, but not really "great films". Whats the sub text? What is the meaning? That being good is good and bad is bad? Why is Loki so naughty? Who knows?Because his dad rejected him? Why doesnt Stark release the designs of his work for everybody? Or at least make iron man walking wheel chairs for the disabled?
Im basically saying that the film is 1 dimensional. It has no depth, it makes no sence if you try to scratch the surface. Its based on silly concepts and has no realy artistic merit beyond the asthetic.
There is something quite amazing about the sheer scale of the Marvelverse franchise. Just the number of films they've produced in the relatively short time frame is pretty remarkable, and the fact that all of them apart from IM3 are great films in and of themselves is pretty amazing. The tie-ins are also very well handled, and do give each movie a sense of place in something bigger.
The point you make about them forcing the competition is also a good one. X-men 1 and 2 were great, 3 a little less so, but after the rise of the Avengers, they're really stepped up their game with Origins, First Class and The Wolverine. Similarly, the new Amazing Spiderman Franchise is far, far better than the last one, and I eagerly await the next instalment. On a wider scale, with DC trying to compete, we got Man of Steel, which was easily as good as any of the Avenger's solo movies (possibly not better than Avengers Assemble, I'd need to watch MOS again).
So it's certainly a great film and TV achievement, but I'm not sure I'd call it the single most successful franchise ever. It's never going to match the longevity of Bond or the sheer epicness of LOTR/The Hobbit, or the brilliance of the Dark Knight Trilogy, but they are certainly great.
The bubble will burst, probably after Avengers 3, as I think that asking for more than 3 solo films from each character is pushing it (And the actors can't keep up such physical roles forever) and that may hurt the franchises that are lagging behind (Justice League, Amazing Spiderman, X-men), which would be a shame. On the other hand, something else will have to fill that gap. But we've got at least another 3-4 years of the Age of the Comic before that time comes.
2014/01/12 12:12:50
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
LordofHats wrote: None of the x-men movies are from Marvel. The only reason fox even makes them now is to continue holding the rights to the series.
Irony being they make a ton of terrible films to hang onto the rights of a franchise they apparently never plan to make a decent film for XD
And the fact that the only X-characters we will see in the main marvel universe are those who are large members of the avengers (Quicksilver, scarlet witch) truly, truly upsets me. (heres hoping that Fox decide to stop making them for a few years/spontaneously decide to sell them back to marvel)
Though the comment that all the films are doing is emulating the way comics work is perhaps accurate, though the timescale is slightly different
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 12:13:56
And the fact that the only X-characters we will see in the main marvel universe are those who are large members of the avengers (Quicksilver, scarlet witch) truly, truly upsets me. (heres hoping that Fox decide to stop making them for a few years/spontaneously decide to sell them back to marvel)
I agree here, the licenses going back to Marvel would be great, (so long as they didn't re-do the origin of the various characters again, we know by now) as we could finally have multi-character crossovers that come up in some of the best comics. Give me X-men, The Avengers and Spiderman (couldn't care less about the F4) in a House of M, Civil War or Secret Invasion movie, and I'll be very, very happy.
Of course, even better would just be an agreement of cooperation between Fox, Sony and Disney so that everything that has gone before stands as Canon, but they still agree to crossovers. This would never happen, but damn I wish it would.
2014/01/12 12:33:54
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
And the fact that the only X-characters we will see in the main marvel universe are those who are large members of the avengers (Quicksilver, scarlet witch) truly, truly upsets me. (heres hoping that Fox decide to stop making them for a few years/spontaneously decide to sell them back to marvel)
I agree here, the licenses going back to Marvel would be great, (so long as they didn't re-do the origin of the various characters again, we know by now) as we could finally have multi-character crossovers that come up in some of the best comics. Give me X-men, The Avengers and Spiderman (couldn't care less about the F4) in a House of M, Civil War or Secret Invasion movie, and I'll be very, very happy.
Of course, even better would just be an agreement of cooperation between Fox, Sony and Disney so that everything that has gone before stands as Canon, but they still agree to crossovers. This would never happen, but damn I wish it would.
You say that, but sony offered to allow Marvel to use the Oscorp tower in the skyline for Avengers, they were just too far along through the process of the movie to be able to add it in. But the offer of co-operation makes me hopeful for at least some level of interplay between Sony and Marvel. (Fox and Marvel is another thing entirely, and the X-Men are my favourite comics to read (in their various books) which is why the lack of x-men upsets me)
I didn't know about that Oscorp thing. I do think cooperation would actually do both franchises a lot of good, as Spiderman gets a look-in on the most successful of the franchises, while The Avengers gets to add one of the most popular characters to their lineup as well. More profit for both companies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 12:37:30
2014/01/12 12:44:16
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
Paradigm wrote: I didn't know about that Oscorp thing. I do think cooperation would actually do both franchises a lot of good, as Spiderman gets a look-in on the most successful of the franchises, while The Avengers gets to add one of the most popular characters to their lineup as well. More profit for both companies.
exactly. Spider-man has been a long time member of the avengers as well (and the fantastic four and F.F. for a period of time when Johnny was thought dead after being trapped in the negative zone) so I can imagine Spider-man being a part of an avengers film somewhere down the line. (I would hope he could be in an FF film as well, but FF is owned by Fox, so...)
Paradigm wrote: I didn't know about that Oscorp thing. I do think cooperation would actually do both franchises a lot of good, as Spiderman gets a look-in on the most successful of the franchises, while The Avengers gets to add one of the most popular characters to their lineup as well. More profit for both companies.
exactly. Spider-man has been a long time member of the avengers as well (and the fantastic four and F.F. for a period of time when Johnny was thought dead after being trapped in the negative zone) so I can imagine Spider-man being a part of an avengers film somewhere down the line. (I would hope he could be in an FF film as well, but FF is owned by Fox, so...)
I must admit F4 are the one team I hope don't really see the big screen again, as they've just never held that much appeal to me.Some of the comics are all right (but I've always preferred Avengers and X-men). That said, I'd love to see Dr Doom get another shot, so there's two sides to the coin. I think Namor and the Skrulls are also under the F4 licence, and Marvel could do a lot with those.
I think the current version of Spiderman would gel quite well with the Avengers lineup they've assembled (pun intended), as his humour would bounce quite well of Downey Jr's Stark, and contrast nicely to Thor's sternness. I'd be more than happy to see him turn up in a later Avengers film.
2014/01/12 13:40:54
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
She-Hulk/Jennifer Walters is also owned by Fox, so you can't have any hulk/she-hulk interaction.
And yeah, there's actually a fairly large number of characters that you wouldn't expect that fall under the fantastic four franchise. (I think Black Panther possibly comes under that banner as well)
Soladrin wrote: Feth it, I want them to cover world war hulk.
I like the way you think.
Though WWHulk was an Illuminati plot line wasn't it? So that would require the rights for all of the franchises, or at least cooperation between them, as well as reversing the established Hulk character from The Avengers (as he's shown as being both Banner and Hulk, and being largely in control as opposed to having been split)
Well the recent Marvel films have in general been vastly superior to the DC ones.
(IMO only) they are better in terms of charactisation, actually have some humour and heart to make you care about the characters and better action - also they don't tend to be overlong and lurch from set piece to set piece.
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I'm with LordofHats... Marvel has a very long way to go before it's even approaching the level of Bond.
And yeah, a couple of their earlier films were mediocre at best (looking at you Hulk), but it seems once they find the right actor to play the part, they are good fun movies. I don't think theyre trying to create cinematic masterpieces like Shawshank, but they are trying to create a fun experience, and by and large, are succeeding very well.
2014/01/12 15:19:12
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
Ensis Ferrae wrote: I'm with LordofHats... Marvel has a very long way to go before it's even approaching the level of Bond.
And yeah, a couple of their earlier films were mediocre at best (looking at you Hulk), but it seems once they find the right actor to play the part, they are good fun movies. I don't think theyre trying to create cinematic masterpieces like Shawshank, but they are trying to create a fun experience, and by and large, are succeeding very well.
This just about sums it up.
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2014/01/12 16:00:53
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
Soladrin wrote: Feth it, I want them to cover world war hulk.
But they'd have to do Planet Hulk first... and I would have absolutely no objection whatsoever.
I stand by the opinion that Planet Hulk is the single best comic storyline I've ever read. A more intelligent hulk, great action scenes in gladiatorial combat and total war, a superb supporting cast, and the twist at the end of World War Hulk (you know which one I'm talking about) was brilliant.
2014/01/12 16:17:26
Subject: Marvel Cinematic Universe: Greatest Achievement in Film History?
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
And I totally agree that the pre-marvel x-men movies sucked, but they got a lot better. Though I still think the marvel movies will out gross the bond movies by a lot.
